cybernoid Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I agree, sadly the thinking in the west is largely around the rugged individualist school (started in the US, imported) which says Success = huge personal effort alone (and therefore if you didn't make it, ****** off because you were just lazy/stupid/incompetent/not good enough) It is also the perspective of those that get lucky. Due to ego they tend not to admit that luck had a part to play, assuming they can see it anyway. So for them it was true that hard work = reward. No reward yet? Not working hard enough! Similar thinking can be seen by those that rode the property bubble... a lot of them don't even see it. Problem with housing? What problem is that? Work hard like I did and it will all be fine ! Can't afford a house? Not working hard enough. etc. Not trying can actually be quite a rational response to the situation you find yourself in. Certainly you need to try in order to succeed, but if you knew the odds might you have a better life by sniffing glue and sleeping on park benches? Is that better than struggling all your life for a promised reward that never comes? Personally I actually quite enjoy the struggle, great success would be nice but I understand the chances. For those that hate the struggle I wonder if they should try at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHERWICK Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) My observation is that: Lots of effort + lots of luck = Great success. effort + some luck = success. Effort + no luck = Dissapointment No effort + Some luck = occasional exception proves the rule Success However as Dom said only my view and as I am sure you will agree the only objective person is the person who realises he can only be subjective when looking at these things. Interesting that you chose to only pair lots of luck with lots of effort... Edited January 3, 2013 by SHERWICK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgia O'Keeffe Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Interesting that you chose to only pair lots of luck with lots of effort... thats what i was thinking Suddenly "lots of" ="lots of " got replaced with an additional "some" equaling a vacuum Quelle Suprise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houses-do-my-head-in Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Frankly good riddance. Get a grip food in your belly, roof over your head. No sympathy you seem to think inflicting that loss on your family is a product of modern society it isn't , just weakness. The reset coming isn't just about houses .... geeez, thats a bit brutal. ive never even met the kid but rotherham is a small place. but i wonder how many more out there are just keeping it together. at 20 i would have never have even thought about anything other than banging birds, clubbing, travelling and banging more birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dances with sheeple Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 There are youth clubs for grown ups. They call them... pubs. If you are under 18, where can you meet up in the average British town after 6pm at night? Facebook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200p Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Of course the young living in the west will be better than 90% of the young in the 3rd world, but the short sharp change has been from point A to point B has been brutal. This picture illustrates; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTMark Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I get the impression that our young, in addition to having their life chances ruined by the economy we now have, also face something of a media stigma. It's been a decade since I read the Daily Wail, but I get the impression that if they were running the country we'd have curfews on anyone aged under 30 going out after 7pm and the Telegraph - given the demographic it represents - isn't any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 IWhat used to happen and what did work was the old school industrialist mentality which self recognised it's own luck and handed out the rewards from that luck in as fair a fashion as it could manage. The religious view that informed this approach has now largely gone, however. +1 So True there won't be another Port Sunlight or Bournville Village Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 +1 So True there won't be another Port Sunlight or Bournville Village I was just talking about this the other day to Mrs What's'isname. One of my first jobs took me to Port Sunlight on a regular basis and I thought it was lovely. It speaks volumes that housing provided for the workers in the 1890s is much more desirable to most people than the majority of the private housing built today! How far we have fallen as a nation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Facebook? You jest, but that is the reality. And one of the reasons it's so popular with teens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattW Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Exactly. There are a large section of society where the role models are completely wrong. On council estates who do the young children aspire to be, the local drug dealer driving his range rover, or the post man on his push bike at 6am. They put out films glamourising the Krays and other such people. Well said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 So this is nothing to do with the number of broken marriages then? Check out the outcomes for children of single parents vs those from stable families. Again, this situation has been caused by a decades long attack by the Liberal left on the family, which is still continuing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I was just talking about this the other day to Mrs What's'isname. One of my first jobs took me to Port Sunlight on a regular basis and I thought it was lovely. It speaks volumes that housing provided for the workers in the 1890s is much more desirable to most people than the majority of the private housing built today! How far we have fallen as a nation Err....... These communities were built by Capitalists to house their workers, because happy, healthy workers are more productive. Compare the value and quality of these homes to all the council houses and flats built after WW2. And the reason private housing is so poor now is because of planning restrictions which force developers to build high density housing which no one wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) I get the impression that our young, in addition to having their life chances ruined by the economy we now have, also face something of a media stigma. It's been a decade since I read the Daily Wail, but I get the impression that if they were running the country we'd have curfews on anyone aged under 30 going out after 7pm and the Telegraph - given the demographic it represents - isn't any better. I have three kids, 2 at Uni and 1 training to be an accountant. The main thing ruining our kids life chances is the state education system. My kids have all done really well - but only because as a family we have fought for years against an education system that went to extra ordinary lengths to ruin their chances. Couple this with the state actively undermining and destroying the family - which is the fundamental unit of all happy, successful human societies and there can only be one outcome - misery. Edited January 4, 2013 by Game_Over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The main thing ruining our kids life chances is the state education system. True. As far as I'm concerned private education is the only way to go. The state school system is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man o' the year Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I have three kids, 2 at Uni and 1 training to be an accountant. The main thing ruining our kids life chances is the state education system. My kids have all done really well - but only because as a family we have fought for years against an education system that went to extra ordinary lengths to ruin their chances. Couple this with the state actively undermining and destroying the family - which is the fundamental unit of all happy, successful human societies and there can only be one outcome - misery. I would be really interested on your views as to what specifically in the education system is ruining kids' life chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 I would be really interested on your views as to what specifically in the education system is ruining kids' life chances. You can have mine. Classes of 30+ pupils where you only need 1or2 who want to be disruptive so no one learns. The idiots and class clowns are the people looked upto instead of the high achievers academically. Drugs are widespread. Very few really good teachers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 You can have mine. Classes of 30+ pupils where you only need 1or2 who want to be disruptive so no one learns. The idiots and class clowns are the people looked upto instead of the high achievers academically. Drugs are widespread. Very few really good teachers. Plus the general dumbing down and targeting of mediocrity. Kids railroaded into worthless but easy vocational courses to make the pass rates look good; higher ability kids ignored as teachers concentrate on getting their D grade students up to a C. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Plus the general dumbing down and targeting of mediocrity. Kids railroaded into worthless but easy vocational courses to make the pass rates look good; higher ability kids ignored as teachers concentrate on getting their D grade students up to a C. Cs are seen as a success. I went to a state school and the highest I could achieve in most my exams was a C. I had to go back at 19 of my own accord to college and managed to get all As Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 The bottom half of society have literally been trapped by the state and labour tried to make sure that more and more fall into that trap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Cs are seen as a success. I went to a state school and the highest I could achieve in most my exams was a C. I had to go back at 19 of my own accord to college and managed to get all As Exactly, everything is targeted on getting as many kids as possible to pass the meaningless 5 C's yardstick; if the bright kids who could've gone to Oxbridge end up dossing around for the rest of their lives so what? As long as they count as a pass they don't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Game_Over Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I would be really interested on your views as to what specifically in the education system is ruining kids' life chances. I could write a book about this subject. How about this. A level Chemistry coursework with maths content, my son was doing A level maths so got virtually 100% right, other students basically failed but were given C's. A sample of the coursework was then checked by the external board and the C grade work was found to only be worth E's so my sons A was knocked down to a C despite it being worth an A. And we couldn't ask for his work to be marked individually because it is cohort marking and there is no way an individual can dispute the moderation. I have dozens of examples like this - so appalling that no one ever believes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goat Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) I have dozens of examples like this - so appalling that no one ever believes me. Not sure about that; outside of the paid left I think most people who work for a living would easily recognise just how appalling the public services in this country are. Edited January 5, 2013 by Goat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Plus the general dumbing down and targeting of mediocrity. Kids railroaded into worthless but easy vocational courses to make the pass rates look good; higher ability kids ignored as teachers concentrate on getting their D grade students up to a C. +1 able students end up functionally innumerate, functionally illiterate, and unambitious in the main the latter is because true ambition was sh*t on by the previous govt who rewarded cronyism instead - bankers and on-message professional lefties being the cronies of choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 +1 So True there won't be another Port Sunlight or Bournville Village too true - would be interesting to see what the nimbys thought of something like that if it was built today just outside Milton Keynes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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