Gone baby gone Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 There's no youth clubs for grown ups (Although I think MAHDLO caters for up to 24 year olds) so they need to get accustomed to this else they'll be really upset when they have no skills for coping on their own. There are youth clubs for grown ups. They call them... pubs. If you are under 18, where can you meet up in the average British town after 6pm at night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Look at where you are today and ask is this because of your parents, a teacher, some chance introduction or conversation, a programme you watched on TV giving you inspiration, or is it solely by opportunities you have created ? F***wit parents are someone else's fault. Being born into a poor social situation with no opportunities is the other end of the scale to being born with a silver spoon and with the world as your oyster. Yes you can get out of a rut, but you need to see how. Plenty of modern day examples in Britain today of people who rise above their circumstance. Everyone has a choice but if the State supports poor choices with it's constant attack on the traditional family unit, organised religion and community groups (Scouts/Guides/WI et al) weak people will make poor choices. I believe the youth of today are exactly the same material as they have always been unfotunately as I said they have F***wit parents so the solution is firebreak policies which dramatically cut welfare hand in hand with fully funded training and apprenticeship schemes that offer real opportunity for the young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 There are youth clubs for grown ups. They call them... pubs. If you are under 18, where can you meet up in the average British town after 6pm at night? Squash Clubs Scouts Guides Football Clubs Local Swimming Club Gym Am Dram Church Mosque Running Club Or do you mean where can you been spoon fed life because you are a waste of space? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I think this article could be interpreted another way. Virtually all of my late 20s/early 30s friends have lost at least one full time job through no fault of their own in the last decade, many more than one. They have spent over a decade learning to cope mentally and logistically with a high cost of living and unstable employment and housing situations. I would guess that their ability to cope with economic difficulties is actually much higher than that of older people who timed it lucky and hit economic sweet spots whereby final salary pensions, wage inflation, HPI etc bailed them out every time they made a dumb move. The habits the young are learning in this difficult time may eventually prove to be assets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigkid Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Look at where you are today and ask is this because of your parents, a teacher, some chance introduction or conversation, a programme you watched on TV giving you inspiration, or is it solely by opportunities you have created ? F***wit parents are someone else's fault. Being born into a poor social situation with no opportunities is the other end of the scale to being born with a silver spoon and with the world as your oyster. Yes you can get out of a rut, but you need to see how. Everybody I know who is doing well got a jump start from their parents/family. Whether giving them directorships in the family company, inheritance, buying them property etc. starting from the bottom is hard work and not many people break out. Nepotism is by far the biggest factor in most successful peoples lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scepticus Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Squash Clubs Scouts Guides Football Clubs Local Swimming Club Gym Am Dram Church Mosque Running Club Or do you mean where can you been spoon fed life because you are a waste of space? I agree with greg, there are many good options for youth and adults. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) I believe the youth of today are exactly the same material as they have always been Of course unfotunately as I said they have F***wit parents Perhaps I missunderstood you. I thought you were saying it was 'lame' to blame the parents. I see f***wit parents as someone else's fault from the perspective of the child. Most, if not all, that break out of the spiral will have had a chance encounter, fortuitous event - call it what you will - that shows them how to do so. so the solution is firebreak policies which dramatically cut welfare hand in hand with fully funded training and apprenticeship schemes that offer real opportunity for the young. yes, the above together provide the youth with an opportunity. One without the other is useless. Edited January 2, 2013 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I agree with greg, there are many good options for youth and adults. None of those are cool though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Squash Clubs Scouts Guides Football Clubs Local Swimming Club Gym Am Dram Church Mosque Running Club Or do you mean where can you been spoon fed life because you are a waste of space? What part of the distribution on the social spectrum are we talking about ? All the above cost money and require motivated parents to enrol their children, or someone to go and 'get them' As a voluntary side line to my work I do some occasional outreach to deprived children. I have children in my classes whose education authority will only allow them to attend if the child is accompanied by a parent. These children can be incredibly disruptive and, I have a feeling, will be in prison by the time they are 19. Often by the end of the day I can have them totally engaged and keen to learn more, it is not unusual for them not to want to leave. That was a day during which their tagged parent has sat beside them glued to their mobile phone texting their boyfriend, child's father, social services, probation officer, i.e. paying no attention to the child or showing any interest in what the child was learning. Tomorrow the child will be hopeless and disruptive. Edited to add "or someone to go and 'get them'", having seen your boxing club thread. Edited January 2, 2013 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) None of those are cool though Think the wheel is turning, Bear Grylls Chief Scout, Most of the Olympians clean living youth club types (didn't even mention boxing massive surge since the olympics) I box and within three months of a mouthy youngster having all the violence they can eat in training it still stuns me the change in their whole attitude to life. I think sooner or later poverty of finances, intellect and ambition is going to look positively uncool Edited January 2, 2013 by Greg Bowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Think the wheel is turning, Bear Grylls Chief Scout, Most of the Olympians clean living youth club types (didn't even mention boxing massive surge since the olympics) I box and within three months of a mouthy youngster having all the violence they can eat in training it still stuns me the change in their whole attitude to life. I think sooner or later poverty of finances, intellect and ambition is going to look positively uncool My link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The XYY Man Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 These kids have not been taught how life is and how to cope with it because as a society we have stopped doing that. They know that water comes from taps and food comes from the fridge. They have probably had doting parents catering to their every whim since they were born, getting big show-off birthday parties, all the tech they can eat each Christmas and holidays galore. And then we expect them to suddenly fend for themselves at 18 - they don't stand a chance because they had everything done for them all of their life. What society currently recognises as "good" parenting isn't - because all we turn out are a bunch of princes and princesses who have no idea how to operate. And once mammy and daddy are no longer there - and that time is inevitable - these poor people are royally screwed. So next time your bairn wants an Xbox or such like, tell them to get a paper round and buy his/her own. Because unless you know for certain that you that will outlive your kids, that is the act of a truly loving parent. Oh,and don't leave them any money either because that will screw-up your grand-kids up too. XYY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xavierpj Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 It's not just the young... What about those in their early 30's and currently unemployed, and can see no future either.... the problem is endemic. Having recently had to deal with the 'Job centre' the whole process is so demoralising. I wish someone would take some direct action and burn the place to the ground. A rerun of London but focused on government buildings. It's not just me that would like to actually love to see it happen ) Viva La Revolution! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doomed Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 None of those are cool though Exactly. There are a large section of society where the role models are completely wrong. On council estates who do the young children aspire to be, the local drug dealer driving his range rover, or the post man on his push bike at 6am. They put out films glamourising the Krays and other such people. Society is almost completely broken and will not be getting fixed any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 What part of the distribution on the social spectrum are we talking about ? All the above cost money and require motivated parents to enrol their children As a voluntary side line to my work I do some occasional outreach to deprived children. I have children in my classes whose education authority will only allow them to attend if the child is accompanied by a parent. These children can be incredibly disruptive and, I have a feeling, will be in prison by the time they are 19. Often by the end of the day I can have them totally engaged and keen to learn more, it is not unusual for them not to want to leave. That was a day during which their tagged parent has sat beside them glued to their mobile phone texting their boyfriend, child's father, social services, probation officer, i.e. paying no attention to the child or showing any interest in what the child was learning. Tomorrow the child will be hopeless and disruptive. Not talking about 'deprived' children obviously a different case to marginally disaffected youth. As for money relative to Sky subs, mobile phone and booze sll those activities are incredibly cheap. Boxing as in another post for a youngster is about £30 a month and we always donate kit to kids who don't have any. Sorry finance isn't an excuse but having a scumbag parent is an impediment but still not an excuse. As for all the above I was thinking of a mainly working class area. Thats the point even you who work with these kids believes that list is expensive in terms of subs. it's not believe me, as for the disruptive kid get them in a boxing ring for three months solid the scary thing is they quickly become more adult than their parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiveinHope Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) Not talking about 'deprived' children obviously a different case to marginally disaffected youth. As for money relative to Sky subs, mobile phone and booze sll those activities are incredibly cheap. Boxing as in another post for a youngster is about £30 a month and we always donate kit to kids who don't have any. Sorry finance isn't an excuse but having a scumbag parent is an impediment but still not an excuse. As for all the above I was thinking of a mainly working class area. Thats the point even you who work with these kids believes that list is expensive in terms of subs. it's not believe me, as for the disruptive kid get them in a boxing ring for three months solid the scary thing is they quickly become more adult than their parents. I think we are talking about different places on the distribution on this thread. I agree with everything you say above. There is an echelon of society however, that needs more intervention. Alternatively, we write those children off and deal with the consequences, including the generational consequences. I appreciate you can probably never hope to reach the end of the distribution's tail. Edited January 2, 2013 by LiveinHope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awaytogo Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 This number will only increase as the jobs for them continue to evaporate. Yup the last government and this one should hang their heads in shame on how things have turned out with job opportunities for the young. Increasing the pension age is not going to help either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I think we are talking about different places on the distribution on this thread. I agree with everything you say above. There is an echelon of society however, that needs more intervention. Alternatively, we write those children off and deal with the consequences, including the generational consequences. I appreciate you can probably never hope to reach the end of the distribution's tail. I know and the world needs a few more of us actually spending time on kids not dropping money in a box (no harm in bigging us up! ) My firebreak theory is never write the kids off, so we must divert all the money we spend on their parents or as much as possible to them because the parents are a lost and impossibly expensive group to fix and unfortunately they will have to sink or swim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I'd like to see the numbers of 18-35 year olds on anti depressants. I know of quite a few through family members and close friends who pop the SSRI's. Generally speaking its the kids of parents who don't have money as they realise that however hard they work they'll never have the advantages that wealthy parents bring. same as saying the state education system has failed them and property prices are too high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I know and the world needs a few more of us actually spending time on kids not dropping money in a box (no harm in bigging us up! ) My firebreak theory is never write the kids off, so we must divert all the money we spend on their parents or as much as possible to them because the parents are a lost and impossibly expensive group to fix and unfortunately they will have to sink or swim. yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 Increasing the pension age is not going to help either. incorrect - statistics from other countries suggest that where more old people work, so unemployment in younger generations is LOWER owing to greater general wealth creation this is not simply theory, it is empirically supported Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Bowman Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) incorrect - statistics from other countries suggest that where more old people work, so unemployment in younger generations is LOWER owing to greater general wealth creation this is not simply theory, it is empirically supported I didn't know you could prove that but it has always made sense to me if you believe in the thinking patterns of abundance or scarcity. With an abundant mentality three generations in the same family would be working creating a work culture. Much as it is true to get a job when you are already in a job. The working older generations can afford then to subsidise the youngsters in all sorts of ways: Lifts to work Help with meals/work clothes etc Not asking for so much rent when a youngster is at home Surely the opposite of the three generations on welfare family? Edited January 2, 2013 by Greg Bowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 I didn't know you could prove that but it has always made sense to me if you believe in the thinking patterns of abundance or scarcity. With an abundant mentality three generations in the same family would be working creating a work culture. Much as it is true to get a job when you are already in a job. The working older generations can afford then to subsidise the youngsters in all sorts of ways: Lifts to work Help with meals/work clothes etc Not asking for so much rent when a youngster is at home Surely the opposite of the three generations on welfare family? indeed the welfare culture more or less states that the less work done, then the wealthier society becomes, which is plainly ludicrous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 (edited) The article in the bbc link doesn't say if things have changed much over the decades although it does seem to suggest that there's not been much change in the numbers over 5 years. I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers aren't much different going back decades. Edited January 2, 2013 by billybong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awaytogo Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 incorrect - statistics from other countries suggest that where more old people work, so unemployment in younger generations is LOWER owing to greater general wealth creation this is not simply theory, it is empirically supported I hope these statistics are correct i expect it depends on which country they are based on and which period of time they were based on as circumstances have changed fast over the last 10 years. We now have a double edged sword cutting away at employment in this country, manufacturers taking jobs to , china , India and other cheap labour countries, and the other edge is the millions of people coming to this country for economic security as their own countries economies are failing.I work in manufacturing and see both British and foreign workers set on a regular basis but there are still to many people chasing to few jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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