Where Is My £4230 ?

[BlinkTooFast]

May we assume that you are following this "plan"? What could possibly go wrong?

X-Factor ends or the world gets covered in discarded plasma TV's that are not 3D compatible, blocking out sunlight and causing a new ice-age. Can't think of anything else that would impede the plan. Oo - maybe WW3 kicks off as we fight over indium and gallium reserves to make the touchscreens on iPad 3's.

[Cinzano Bianco]

I have started looking for contract roles this evening... I need to make myself more tax efficient to try and counteract this ********.

[BlinkTooFast]

WW3 you are living through right now, its a global financial war, WW4 will be the big one, just so you know.

I'm with you there. Didn't know if I could carry people along that many steps at once

[Errol]

Yes, give me my share as well. I want to buy gold with it.

[tinker]

It's global financial terrorism as Max Keiser puts it.

[Giordano Bruno]

Just done some quick calculations so please correct me if I'm wrong -

So far the Bank Of England has created £275 BILLION of new money via Q.E.

Divide that amount by the polulation of Great Britain (using the figure of 65 million as a base) and I work it out at aproximately £4230 for every man, woman and child in the country!

The BOE uses this new money to purchase 'assets' from private banks. In reality these assets are complex IOU's with no hope of ever being repayed. The banks are then supposed to loan this money out into the economy (creating more debt which is the fundamental problem in the first place!).

Now have I seen or had access to any of this newly created money? Not at all! I haven't had a pay rise in almost 6 years and inflation (partly due to Q.E increasing the money supply) is making my meagre wage worth less and less each year!

I'm married with four children so take £4230 and multiply by six gives a grand total of £25,380. If I'd been given that cash (I've got some rusty old bikes in the yard I could use as 'assets' - worth more in scrap metal then the worthless IOU's the banks use) I could have paid off my mortgage (helping recapitalise the bank) and still had around £4000 left over to spend into the economy!

Combined with this I'd save money by having no mortgage repayments which this year would be another £2182 in my wallet!

I'm being robbed blind by these banksters and their government croanies and I'm mad as hell . . . . .

Get with the program please. The money being created is for bankers and financiers. OK? If you're not one of those then you're not having any. So there!

[KingBingo]

People need to 'Wake Up'

Why, its so much more depressing when you do.

[scepticus]

This is from the BOE website -

In March 2009, the Bank’s Monetary Policy Committee (MPC) began purchasing financial assets funded by the creation of central bank reserves. These reserves are new money that the Bank creates electronically in the accounts held with it by commercial banks. Often known as quantitative easing (QE), the Bank’s asset purchases are designed to inject money directly into the economy.

The Bank buys financial assets from banks who may be selling on their own behalf or, more likely, on behalf of their clients, such as insurance companies, pension funds, banks and non-financial firms.

So what exactly are these bank 'assets' that the BOE recieves for giving this new money out?

Most of the government bonds sold in return for the new money are sold by pension funds and other private sector institutions. In fact, if you have a pension its possible that in fact you did or will receive some money as a result of QE.

Who gets to decide what these bank 'assets' are worth?

whomever sells them to the bank. e.g. the market. Really, if you have been around here since 07 you ought to know all this by now. Perhaps check out the gilts thread?

If Q.E is designed to inject money directly into the economy why not just hand it out to the general population to spend instead of giving it to us as yet more debt via the banks? (thats if they actually bother to loan it out and not just hoard it)

there are many such proposals. However people tend to think that wouldn't be cricket. Personally I'm not massively against that idea, although I think there are better options for the man in the street. Anyway, fill your boots with this:

http://www.macroresilience.com/2011/10/05/a-simple-policy-program-for-macroeconomic-resilience/

won't be long before we have a party with at least a few MPs demanding we do exactly that.

[scepticus]

i dont think he means it literally.

um, actually I think he did.

[bajista]

I don't think the OP has quite got the hang of this QE business yet.

'Money' is created, yes, but not wealth - QE just transfers that from one person to another. In fact, if you haven't started off with the right assets ( the special banking linked ones) that benefit from the QE you need to understand that in the longer term you won't be a receiver of the £4230 you will be the one paying it.

Sucks, doesn't it?

[Giordano Bruno]

I don't think the OP has quite got the hang of this QE business yet.

'Money' is created, yes, but not wealth - QE just transfers that from one person to another. In fact, if you haven't started off with the right assets ( the special banking linked ones) that benefit from the QE you need to understand that in the longer term you won't be a receiver of the £4230 you will be the one paying it.

Sucks, doesn't it?

That is my understanding of QE although I have not given it serious study.

['Bart']

As Blackadder would say, "seen it, pinched it, spent it".

Percy: Oh, Edmund, I am sorry -- I had no idea. But do not despair, for I have some small savings carefully harvested from my weekly allowance, set aside against my frail old age. By lucky haps, it is just over a thousand, methinks, and has for years has been hidden beyond the wit of any thief, in an old sock...

Edmund and Percy: ...under the squeaky floorboard...

Baldrick, Edmund and Percy: ...behind the kitchen dresser.

Percy: You've seen it!

Edmund: Seen it, pinched it, spent it. And same goes for the two farthings

Baldrick thinks he's got hidden inside that mouldy potato.

Baldrick: Oh, bloody hell!

[dredwerker]

Doesnt the £75 billion go in to the fractional reserve banking system which means that this money is only 3%(or whatever the reserves are now) of what then can actually be loaned by banks?

So ready to loan is £2 trillion, 500 billionWolfram Alpha

Or I have I got that wrong?

If not - that is why they don't give out £4230 to everyone. Coz you could borrow £38461.538461538461538461538461538461538461538461538461538461...

from the bank

Wolfram Alpha divide by 65 million

So back to an earlier thread its about who needs to borrow money, businesses need customers and people need proper jobs.

[mightytharg]

Just done some quick calculations so please correct me if I'm wrong -

So far the Bank Of England has created £275 BILLION of new money via Q.E.

Divide that amount by the polulation of Great Britain (using the figure of 65 million as a base) and I work it out at aproximately £4230 for every man, woman and child in the country!

. .

Sure. I'll correct you

First, the value the bank created is Zero (think of the amount of work the BoE puts in to make the money. So the average share per person is Zero.

So why would they do it? The purpose is twofold. First to take money from hardworking people and bestow it on scrounging public sector workers, who after all need their payrises and bloated pensions. Second it is to transfer money from the savings of rent-forever-losers to pay off the mortgages of worthy homeowners.

As a homeowner, you get your share since now you can pay off your mortgage with debased "new pounds". Congratulations!

[dredwerker]

Sure. I'll correct you

First, the value the bank created is Zero (think of the amount of work the BoE puts in to make the money. So the average share per person is Zero.

So why would they do it? The purpose is twofold. First to take money from hardworking people and bestow it on scrounging public sector workers, who after all need their payrises and bloated pensions. Second it is to transfer money from the savings of rent-forever-losers to pay off the mortgages of worthy homeowners.

As a homeowner, you get your share since now you can pay off your mortgage with debased "new pounds". Congratulations!

Thats not what I was getting at although you are completely correct.

If you look at the £275 billion that has been given out

or £141025.64102564102564102564102564102564102564102564102564102... (FRB @ 3%)

I think its intriguing coz it allows banks to inflate prices of houses whilst taking their cut. Yes they can lend some money to some small business which will probably be some ponzi scheme or other.

[Sour Mash]

You can get it back. You have to buy Gold though.

The currency supply has been inflating, essentially mean that cash has been devalued against *anything real*.

It does not have to be Gold to get the benefit, it could be any durable real asset, but with Gold you have the chance that things get so bad we go back to a Gold standard, at which point the existing Gold reserves would have to be revalued, very substantially.

Unfortunately, the government is going to want its 'share' of your profit - or more likely, they'll want it all.

Don't want to degenerate this into a goldbug thread but think about accumulating small amounts of physical gold, 'under the radar'.

['Bart']

So the average share per person is Zero.

Fair enough, as long as I'm not being cheated.

[winkie]

Where Is My £4230 ? I want my share of this Q.E handout!

What are you talking about...that is the amount each and every one of us are losing from our savings because of it...and for those without the savings they will have to work that bit harder in the future to earn what they would of had but lost.

[bomberbrown]

<br />To f**king right I do! <br /><br />I've been paying a morgage on this small terraced house for 18 years - probably already paid the initial money I borrowed twice over in interest and yet I still don't own my own house.! Add to that the fact that the money I borrowed wasn't somebody elses hard earned savings as I believed (when I was young and naive) but was infact created from nothing by the bank when I agreed to enslave myself for 25 years and signed the dotted line. For the first time ever I'm actually behind on my credit card due to increased costs and you know what I don't frickin care anymore. I've made a concious descision to run up as much unsecured debt as posible before the whole pile of ******** that is our debt based financial system finally implodes.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Maybe you should have STATED your 18 years of mortgage payments in your very first post, then you would'nt have got my first response. You were a trolling fixed under base rate mortgagor for all I knew.

[bomberbrown]

<br />Good for you. I thought the criticism was out of order.<br /><br />QE achieves nothing for the majority of people, and in fact steels from them, for the benefit of those that caused it.<br /><br />It's 'Quantative Looting' as has been said here before.<br /><br />People need to 'Wake Up'<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Given the limited info in the original post, I thought it (criticism) was warranted.

[ticket2ride]

Good article in the Graun: QE2 will damage pensions

Buying gilts or corporate bonds is not what we need to revive the economy. It may be a short-term boost for bond traders and markets, but risking a loss of confidence in the Bank of England's policymaking could well harm the economy.

inflation is a major threat to anyone who has prudently put money aside for their future. It is like silent theft, taking money away from pensioners, savers and those living on fixed income, by reducing their purchasing power.

Instead of buying gilts or corporate bonds, the Bank should lend new money directly to small companies

The last point made me think, since Osborne has been saying this, I imagine they intend to do it and soon. Only the banks wanted another feed at the trough first.

[MongerOfDoom]

Now have I seen or had access to any of this newly created money? Not at all! I haven't had a pay rise in almost 6 years and inflation (partly due to Q.E increasing the money supply) is making my meagre wage worth less and less each year!

(...)

I'm being robbed blind by these banksters and their government croanies and I'm mad as hell . . . . .

It's not your money, and it sounds like you are one of the last people to pay its cost. And you have probably received the benefit as well.

The way QE works is that the government takes money off savers, and spends it. The process is a bit more convoluted, but the bottom line is that it stops when nobody has savings worth stealing any more.

So the transfer goes from people who typically pay a lot of tax to those who don't. Judging by the fact you still have a mortgage many years after buying a house, you are probably one of the poorer members of society, and as such benefit from QE. Without it the public services and benefits would be getting savagely cut as we speak (as opposed to having an increasing amount of money spent on them, even if that happens to be below the rate of inflation).

Happier now?

[right_freds_dead]

Just done some quick calculations so please correct me if I'm wrong -

So far the Bank Of England has created £275 BILLION of new money via Q.E.

Divide that amount by the polulation of Great Britain (using the figure of 65 million as a base) and I work it out at aproximately £4230 for every man, woman and child in the country!

The BOE uses this new money to purchase 'assets' from private banks. In reality these assets are complex IOU's with no hope of ever being repayed. The banks are then supposed to loan this money out into the economy (creating more debt which is the fundamental problem in the first place!).

Now have I seen or had access to any of this newly created money? Not at all! I haven't had a pay rise in almost 6 years and inflation (partly due to Q.E increasing the money supply) is making my meagre wage worth less and less each year!

I'm married with four children so take £4230 and multiply by six gives a grand total of £25,380. If I'd been given that cash (I've got some rusty old bikes in the yard I could use as 'assets' - worth more in scrap metal then the worthless IOU's the banks use) I could have paid off my mortgage (helping recapitalise the bank) and still had around £4000 left over to spend into the economy!

Combined with this I'd save money by having no mortgage repayments which this year would be another £2182 in my wallet!

I'm being robbed blind by these banksters and their government croanies and I'm mad as hell . . . . .

you DID get the money. the 4k. it was spent on police, education, firemen and so on.

thats why they have to print it because they dont have it, but its spent on the daily running of the uk.

[billybong]

1:25 onwards :angry:

The trouble is that the dud notes issued by the Bankrupt of England are so good it's impossible to tell the difference.