spyguy Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Never trusted Santander, even before they started arriving in the UK. Listening to their claims is like listening to Enron or Worldcom in the late 90s. I've spanish relatives who've spoken of Santander's business model - large carpet, large broom, aim for too big to fail. Speaking to people who have worked for various Santander acquisitions in the UK, they seem even worse. Think large number of plates spinning as some f-witted Spanish MBA failure runs round shouting. Santander seeks to offload €3bn of property http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/240f7f4e-ffe5-11e0-89ce-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1c3BvIdhs “The Santander operation will be difficult to pull off,” said one broker in Madrid. “Santander will accept losses, but the problem is that anyone who studies the operation will be so aggressive that there will be some assets valued at zero, or less.” Santander faces £13bn capital shortfall http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8853812/Santander-faces-13bn-capital-shortfall.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmf Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Never trusted Santander, even before they started arriving in the UK. Listening to their claims is like listening to Enron or Worldcom in the late 90s. I've spanish relatives who've spoken of Santander's business model - large carpet, large broom, aim for too big to fail. Speaking to people who have worked for various Santander acquisitions in the UK, they seem even worse. Think large number of plates spinning as some f-witted Spanish MBA failure runs round shouting. Santander seeks to offload €3bn of property http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/240f7f4e-ffe5-11e0-89ce-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1c3BvIdhs “The Santander operation will be difficult to pull off,” said one broker in Madrid. “Santander will accept losses, but the problem is that anyone who studies the operation will be so aggressive that there will be some assets valued at zero, or less.” Santander faces £13bn capital shortfall http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8853812/Santander-faces-13bn-capital-shortfall.html Cancelled my isa months ago. And the wife's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Someone noted in one of the Greek threads, the EFSF is still for the banks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa3 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I think after watching this whole thing for quite a few years now.. that in banking to make the most moeny you just go the most gigantic of anyone on the bull run up. Any defaults will be covered by increasing property values. Then yes when it does blow up its game over. But by then you've already taken the dividends out, and the savers at the bank will be bailed out by the government anyway. Here is the key point, when it blows up, its game over for all the banks. Even the prudent ones. Because the turn of credit to contraction takes everyone down in the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I think after watching this whole thing for quite a few years now.. that in banking to make the most moeny you just go the most gigantic of anyone on the bull run up. Any defaults will be covered by increasing property values. Then yes when it does blow up its game over. But by then you've already taken the dividends out, and the savers at the bank will be bailed out by the government anyway. If it blows up, you don't care because, [a] you've been paid handsomely for your services, support from the taxpayers will provide a nice golden parachute and [c] who can remember the last guys running a bank who were prosecuted for anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 If it blows up, you don't care because, [a] you've been paid handsomely for your services, support from the taxpayers will provide a nice golden parachute and [c] who can remember the last guys running a bank who were prosecuted for anything? The problem with bank prosecutions is the difficulty - especially in this country with our Light Touchpaper regulation - of finding the line between standard practice and outright fraud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone baby gone Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 The problem with bank prosecutions is the difficulty - especially in this country with our Light Touchpaper regulation - of finding the line between standard practice and outright fraud. It's not a problem of evidence, it's more one of motivation: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216?print=true In the UK, and the US, I also imagine it could get quite embarrassing - shattering the illusion that the regulator is actually doing anything - for the government/ex-government at fairly senior levels. The solution is not to look for evidence, even when you've been given a tip off. Remember Paul Moore: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/feb/11/banks-whistleblower-crosby Usually what happens is a fine is issued that is paid by the institution and the individual just gets a pat on the back and a wink at his club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrappycocco Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 They pay like 3% on savings and something like 10% on their monthly saver, why not keep the compensation limit with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getknk Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'm not sure if the fear phase is there for Santander.. i still have the first home saver fund in Santander.. but hopefully that's protected by FSA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 It's not a problem of evidence, it's more one of motivation: In the UK, and the US, I also imagine it could get quite embarrassing - shattering the illusion that the regulator is actually doing anything - for the government/ex-government at fairly senior levels. The solution is not to look for evidence, even when you've been given a tip off. Usually what happens is a fine is issued that is paid by the institution and the individual just gets a pat on the back and a wink at his club. I always thought that this was one of the UK's 'Unique Selling Points' was as a financial hub.. 'You'll never go to jail!', 'A couple of drinks with the head of HMRC and we'll for get that awkward little tax bill!', 'We'll never regulate anything, ever!', 'Here's our gold, rock bottom prices!', 'Lots of friendly taxpayers who like to be treated rough'.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_flaps_* Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I'm not sure if the fear phase is there for Santander.. i still have the first home saver fund in Santander.. but hopefully that's protected by FSA? Same here and I hope the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I think after watching this whole thing for quite a few years now.. that in banking to make the most moeny you just go the most gigantic of anyone on the bull run up. Any defaults will be covered by increasing property values. Then yes when it does blow up its game over. But by then you've already taken the dividends out, and the savers at the bank will be bailed out by the government anyway. Here is the key point, when it blows up, its game over for all the banks. Even the prudent ones. Because the turn of credit to contraction takes everyone down in the economy. They have links with some fine upstanding (via taxpayers) banks The Inter Alpha Group of Banks was established in 1971 by six major European Community banks. At that time, the member banks had only limited experience in the international banking markets. The Group was formed to provide a platform for the regular exchange of ideas and explore areas for co-operation. The Group has no hierarchical structure and is connected only by a loosely worded ‘Agreement’ with each bank retaining its autonomy and independence. The Group’s function has developed to: Provide a platform for the regular exchange of ideas at Executive and Senior Management level Allow specialists to meet and discuss topics of particular interest Establish areas of co operation, particularly in international trade Train junior and middle management by means of an annual Inter-Alpha Banking School and annual Inter-Alpha Banking Management Programme at INSEAD at Fountainbleau near Paris Create a framework for individual banks within the Group to work together. Membership of the group has now grown to eleven banks, representing fifteen European countries, namely: AIB Group, Eire BANCO ESPIRITO SANTO SA, Portugal Santander, Spain Soc Gen, France ING Bank, the Netherlands Intesa Sanpaolo KBC Bank, Belgium Nordea, Denmark, Finland and Sweden National Bank of Greece, Greece Commerzbank The Royal Bank of Scotland Group, UK http://www.inter-alpha.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Never trusted Santander, even before they started arriving in the UK. Listening to their claims is like listening to Enron or Worldcom in the late 90s. I've spanish relatives who've spoken of Santander's business model - large carpet, large broom, aim for too big to fail. Speaking to people who have worked for various Santander acquisitions in the UK, they seem even worse. Think large number of plates spinning as some f-witted Spanish MBA failure runs round shouting. Santander seeks to offload €3bn of property http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/240f7f4e-ffe5-11e0-89ce-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1c3BvIdhs “The Santander operation will be difficult to pull off,” said one broker in Madrid. “Santander will accept losses, but the problem is that anyone who studies the operation will be so aggressive that there will be some assets valued at zero, or less.” Santander faces £13bn capital shortfall http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8853812/Santander-faces-13bn-capital-shortfall.html Can I have some of the assets valued at zero or less please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Necessities Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Just took our 100K house fund out of there, in my opinion they are incompetent muppets. They couldn't even get my wife's name right on the bond! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffy666 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Can I have some of the assets valued at zero or less please. Yes, you can have a house in the middle of Spain, miles from civilisation, not hooked up to amenities, unoccupied (or squatted), with several year's back taxes due, for nothing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Can I have some of the assets valued at zero or less please. Is it still an asset if it has a value of less than zero? Or a liability? I'll never get the hang of this high finance lark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trampa501 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Lol. Ever since 2007 there have been Brits trying to spread scare stories about Santander's stablility, possibly because they can't accept Northern Rock, RBOS, RBS etc needed the big bailouts, and a Spanish competitor didn't. What did Santander do in the 3rd quarter of this year? Increase profits - ok so the UK branch has shown reduced profits, but that's down to the PPI judgement. Sanatander's profits up 10% Spanish banking giant Santander posted a 10.3 percent rise in third quarter profit on Thursday to 1.803 billion euros ($2.5 billion).In its announcement, Santander added that it would raise its top-tier capital ratio to 10 percent by June 30 of next year without government help. The new recapitalisation target is higher than the 9.0 percent agreed by eurozone leaders in Brussels early on Thursday. Their Brazil operation is looking good for next year too Santander Brazil MADRID (Dow Jones)--Banco Santander (Brasil) SA (SANB4.BR) Chairman Marcial Portela said Thursday that he expects to grow profits by around 15% on average next year and in 2013, as it signs on new clients and benefits from robust loan growth.In a presentation to Banco Santander SA (STD) investors in London, Portela said he expects the country's economy to grow at a sustainable rate of 3%-4%, with a robust pipeline of infrastructure investment by the state--offshore oil field developments and the upcoming soccer World Cup and Olympic Games--aiding development. Santander owns the country's third-largest bank by market share. With earnings in Spain slumping due to a deep economic crisis, Brazil last year became the largest contributor to the group's profits. Portela targeted revenue growth of 14%-16% in the period, credit growth of 15%-17%, while he said he expects costs to grow at a clip of 11%-13% in 2012 and 2013. The bank said it expects to add 1 million new clients over the next two years, to 10 million. It also said it plans to sell more products to its existing clients. Portela said that social mobility is causing more people to use banking services. Some 46 million Brazilians moved to the upper and middle class in recent years, and another 19 million is expected to joint these classes by 2014, he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Speaking to people who have worked for various Santander acquisitions in the UK, they seem even worse. Think large number of plates spinning as some f-witted Spanish MBA failure runs round shouting. Amazingly accurate based on my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainlessSteelCat Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Yes, you can have a house in the middle of Spain, miles from civilisation, not hooked up to amenities, unoccupied (or squatted), with several year's back taxes due, for nothing.. That sounds awfully like a liability rather than an asset but I'm no expert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papag Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 In Spain for every house apartment they take back /repossess and there are literately many thousands of them they are legally obliged to pay back all the back the outstanding community charges owed which can and does run into thousands as if the old owners didn't pay the mortgage they certainly haven't paid their community bills, they also have to pay by law ongoing charges to the community whilst the property remains empty .On top of all that they also by law are responsible for any other outstanding debts built up by the defaulter which come to light,so by getting them off their books will be important to them as they are not going to appreciate in value now or in the medium/long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacantPossession Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Almost every bank would be theoretically bankrupt if all its cash vs liabilities were accounted fully on any one given day. So the question is, how exposed is a given bank when it has absorbed several other banks all over the world and particularly in Europe? And if several million investors are hit overnight by a bank failure as big as one might expect in these circumstances, do we really believe the government could possibly guarantee every single depositor, with a total liability of hundreds of billions - and perhaps trillions? Quantitive Easing is the conventional answer, but all that does is pour money down the same funnel that caused the failure in the first place. QE is a substitute for rescuing depositors, which would arguably have been the preferred option rather than "saving" Northen Rock and other failed banks. Each time European governments pour endless tax payer funds to save either other states or banks, they simply inject billions of funds down a black hole which, rather than re-energising the electorate's power to spend or even tread water, merely flushes even more cash down the existing sewer of waste. The only option for those with any deposits left is to spread them wisely and hope that they are lucky enough to hang on to at least some of them should a financial apocalypse occur. Even the mutual lenders are not immune and nearly every single bank in Europe is over-exposed once the dominoes begin to fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Santander seeks to offload €3bn of property Property brokers working in the Spanish market, however, say foreign funds are unenthusiastic about the country’s residential property and are requesting further discounts for a bulk buy. Land is a particular problem and in some cases is regarded as having a negative value because of the cost of managing it or converting to a different use. I like the bit about land. Negative value. That's the view I'm taking for land in the UK, even some building plots which are still asking prices like there is already a house built on it. Tighter and more expensive financing, fewer investors, falling property prices, time and lots of other risks for money tied in during any change of use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiCasaSuCasa Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Amazingly accurate based on my experience. Oh boy, the stories I could tell about some Santander employees. I am sure that they will go under at some point, but it seems at the moment that even the completely incompetent are incapable of going bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuts Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Used to have significant monies with Alliance and Leicester / Santander.... Customer service reputation is poor. Solvency debatable. To quote the dragons den... "I'm out." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Lloyds chief to step back from helm http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3428f9ee-04ec-11e1-91d9-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1cWohM49Q Ha! Smells of B+B when the CEO was retired off because he was a vagina .. sorry had angina. Stress? As in 'God I hope they don't find out that Santander is just a sham.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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