Living Overseas -- merged threads

[Realistbear]

Sadly it is trendy and fashionable for liberal types to be anti American in this country. Equally, it is quite fashionable for liberals in the US to be anti-British. Just look at all those Hollywood films where there is a line or two that insults the British. They would never dream of saying the same thing about Islamofascists because they know the mad mullahs would begin with protests in the streets and finish up with killing people.

Maybe that is the strenght of the relationship between the US and UK though - true friends can say bad thing about each other.

Both the UK and the US are not perfect by any means. Both counties have their faults but there are a lot worse places to be born in the World. I am thankful I was not born in many other countries and out of the 6 billion people on the planet I know there are literally BILLIONS worse off than probably anyone who posts on this board.

Only last night I was listening to a radio doc about 14 million people who have died of AIDS in Africa. Of a 90 year old woman who is bringing up her 12 year old grandson, who has AIDS, because his parents have both died of AIDS. She walks 15 miles every week to ask the local Doctors for AIDS medicine for her grandchild but, as children with HIV rarely survive in Africa, there is a plicy of not giving the all too rare medicine to children.

I cannot imagine having that responsibility now. It exhausts me to think about it. I cannot imagine a woman in her 90s having that responsibility.

Sorry, I have gone off on a rant...

p.s.

Yes RB, the irony of your previous post went flying over my head taking a small charter to Ibiza I think it must be the Polish genes. You only have to mention Germans and I turn into Corporal Jones!

I have always seen the US as a sort-of extension of the UK. The British Empire just moved west a bit.

I have to admit though, I have hardly ever heard anything anti-British in the US. The vast majority of Americans I have come accross are extremely pro-British, loved Winston, Maggie and Tones. I think they realise Gordon is not long for No. 10 and have little comment.

Definition of a conservative: A liberal who has been mugged.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Realistbear

[Della]

I'm married with kids by the way. No issues here. Yes I do have depression, but it's a seasonal thing only in the UK. Oh and also HPC.co.uk, which I'd find more depressing by the day if it wasn't for you're company Tulip.

At this time of year try going for a walk at midday for 30 mins or so, maybe twice a week, and a longer walk on the weekend. Doing that seems to cure problems of SAD. Walking around when it is dark is mildly effective, it is most effective on sunny days, although even gloomy rainy days are pretty effective. If it is not too cold you could roll up your sleeves to increase the skins Vitamin D production.

Edited January 2, 2008 by Della

[MarkG]

Having problems meeting the entry criteria though !

If you can't meet the Federal entry requirements, check out the Provincial Nominee Programs, which will also get you a residence visa but have different requirements and will typically be processed much faster (maybe a year rather than five years). When I looked at Saskatchewan's program a year or two back, for example, pretty much anyone with a job offer, a reasonable amount of education and some savings could qualify.

Generally you will require a job offer of some kind though. It won't necessarily have to be one that would qualify for a work permit.

[piece of paper]

Having read CGNAO's posts I'm gonna grow fins and climb back in the water again.

p-o-p

[RedMercury]

Indeed. Any extremist who is intolerant of or unduly critical of another's belief's could be described as a religious zealot.

I know this is deviating from the original topic, but this rankles me somewhat. I am an atheist, but I certainly wouldn't say I'm an extremist. I'm not intolerant of others or over critical, I just believe what I believe (or choose not to believe ) . Just because someone is an atheist doesn't make them Richard bloody Dawkins!

Edited January 3, 2008 by RedMercury

[adren]

I know this is deviating from the original topic, but this rankles me somewhat. I am an atheist, but I certainly wouldn't say I'm an extremist. I'm not intolerant of others or over critical, I just believe what I believe (or choose not to believe ) . Just because someone is an atheist doesn't make them Richard bloody Dawkins!

True.

Atheist == without belief.

Hard to think someone without belief would be zealous about it or even care that others might have beliefs.

Dawkins, on the other hand. Is in my opinion a religious zealot because of the position he takes and the way in which he goes about expounding it.

[redgenieuk]

Atheist == without belief.

Hard to think someone without belief would be zealous about it or even care that others might have beliefs.

I class myself as an Atheist and your right, i don't give a monkeys what any of the other misguided sheeple think. It is just another form of mass control that it is easier to do without.

[Mr Nice]

I can't recall which US Writer made the comment recently that all Americans are convinced their ancestors came over on the Mayflower and are proud of all that "bring us your huddled masses" stuff but, when it comes down to it, they don't really want anyone else coming to America, apart from illegal Spanish whom they can pay peanuts to and control them by fear of expelling them, so have made it incredibly difficult for anyone to work there.

They also are convinced that everyone is desperate to go and live in America and many Americans seem totally oblivious to the fact that many countries have as good, or better, quality of Life and its people have no interest in becoming 'Americans'!

I'm not sure what have been reading, but the writer probably need to check their sources.

%30ish of americans aren't even white, so I doubt they really think they came over on the Mayflower.

Even of the caucasians, the vast majority are German, not British.

and as far as wanting to let in the "illegal Spanish" whom they can "pay peanuts and control them by fear of expelling them," I'd say that most tend to feel the same way about them that the British feel about the Pakistani and

Polish immigrants.

I'm not sure what America did to ruffle your feathers, but I'm sure it didn't mean it, and it was all a misunderstanding.

[Dubai]

Just when I was getting a teary eye and all sentimental about one day returning, I see this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

What on earth is happening to "Great" Britain?

BTW, I don't read the Mail online, it was a link from another site. I posted the direct link to save you the trouble of trawling through the other one.... er..... honest......

[gus]

I am. I have some serious decisions to make in the next 6 months about where I live, what I do long-term and, to be frank, the UK is looking less and less like the option.

I have been ill with stress for several years, am now recovering thank goodness and find myself in a position where I can potentially be mortgage free and in my early 40s here by the end of 2008 or I can move somewhere else. I have no family at all anymore since my Mum passed away two Christmases ago and I find the stress of my previous profession, IT, to be miserable, forever changing and just too demanding. I am looking now to those nice big modern houses in the likes of the US, Canada, Oz and NZ that I could have in a nice quality setting... and they are tempting.

I do not like the stress, noise, dirt and over-taxation of the UK. I do not like what I have seen in the NHS and do not wish to come old here in the UK. We treat old people terribly here in the UK and, trust me, you do not wish to become old here if you have no one to fight your corner. Having said that the NHS is some kind of safety net and I worry about the US where, as I have seen with my own eyes, ill people not being treated because they have no health insurance and elderly people not getting prescriptions because they simply cannot afford them.

I have to say Canada and NZ interest me a great deal - NZ for quality of life, Canada for quality of life and a decent health system. I think the US is a place to go to when you are young and healthy to make money and get out ASAP. I have my doubts about Oz as I fear it might become one giant desert in my lifetime.

Other places I would consider are other parts of the EU such as Spain, Netherlands and perhaps the likes of Sweden.

I am fed up with the chav culture here in the UK, fed up with everything coming down to the lowest common denominator, fed up with things not working, fed up with rising crime, fed up with dirt, fed up with being taxed to the hilt, fed up with driving hours just to get to and from work, fed up with a Society where Men are basically shafted in relationships and divorce - noticed in another thread someone commenting how many on here have female partners who are not British. Most of my male friends in their 40s and 50s are the same and will not go near a British woman again for a relationship let alone marriage - fed up with feeling like an alien in my land of birth and just, well, just fed up with being powerless to do anything about it.

It is a big decision. I am scared to do it for all sorts of reasons. I am scared if I go somewhere else and something happens to me that no one will know but, in truth, that is no different from here.

A friend from London was down here in Swansea today - a former Swansea lad - and he was asking why Swansea thinks it can justify London prices for houses that are tiny and run-down. He also commented on how dirty the City is and what a mess the Council has made of developing the City centre. The wonderful Gower, Pembrokeshire and Brecon Beacons are all nearby and if it was not for them I would definitely go.

Does that help?

I'm just an expat but I'd point out 2 things to aspiring emigres:

If you have a large number of friends and family that you are umbilically connected to - beware. Don't underestimate the power of the need for a sense of belonging.People need to live in communities/countries where they feel understood with tacitly shared values. A lengthy disconnect can create real feelings of alienation-- a phenomenological divide that is seriously injurious to your mental health.I'm serious.

If you are leaving the UK primarily for financial reasons (and not the usual trivia like weather and a morbid aversion to obese,tatooed, disease-ridden harlots) don't delude yourself into thinking there is still an El Dorado out there just waiting for your unique talents; you'll be disappointed. Most desirable countries are equipped with their very own home grown talents, who are as well or better educated than you (MT when I say you I mean all of us)and also have the advantage of a ready and extensive social and business network. (In Indo it's referred to as :KKK Corruption Collsion and Nepotism??....and it rules the roost).The sad truth is that if you could not cut the financial mustard in a benign UK you probably will not cut it in sunnier climes either.

Notwithstanding all of the above, if like me, you have absolutely no close family , and no real friends, then you have nothing to lose . Go for it.

[council dweller]

I'm just an expat but I'd point out 2 things to aspiring emigres:

If you have a large number of friends and family that you are umbilically connected to - beware. Don't underestimate the power of the need for a sense of belonging.People need to live in communities/countries where they feel understood with tacitly shared values. A lengthy disconnect can create real feelings of alienation-- a phenomenological divide that is seriously injurious to your mental health.I'm serious.

If you are leaving the UK primarily for financial reasons (and not the usual trivia like weather and a morbid aversion to obese,tatooed, disease-ridden harlots) don't delude yourself into thinking there is still an El Dorado out there just waiting for your unique talents; you'll be disappointed. Most desirable countries are equipped with their very own home grown talents, who are as well or better educated than you (MT when I say you I mean all of us)and also have the advantage of a ready and extensive social and business network. (In Indo it's referred to as :KKK Corruption Collsion and Nepotism??....and it rules the roost).The sad truth is that if you could not cut the financial mustard in a benign UK you probably will not cut it in sunnier climes either.

Notwithstanding all of the above, if like me, you have absolutely no close family , and no real friends, then you have nothing to lose . Go for it.

Excellent post gus.This really is serious stuff.

As someone who has spent 20 years abroad I would have to agreed with that. If 'your' motive for living abroad is to find yourself then the chances are that you will ! That's the problem !When stripped of what passes for an identity; possessions,job, friends, family etc. there's really not much left...(I have to include myself in this) Can you handle that crushing sense of disconnection ? If you can embrace this emptiness you can make anywhere your home.

Yep. "Go for It."

.....have to go now, the doctors have just brought my medication...

[geoffk]

as someone who has been to over 60 different countries over the years and started off at 16 in karachi then bombay then at the age of thirty left guatamala to return to the uk to get married.

i have a problem in that my wife now has never been up the garden path apart from holidays over the years to spain when she was younger.

this year i have took her to dubia, toronto twice and australia and i have for the last few years been dropping big hints that i would like to move abroad again.

but i get the i would miss the family reason all the time and also she does not drive(big mistake)

so i am sat here with itchy feet and want to move again but my wifes get up and go is non existant..so to all you people who can go i envy you

,as i really hate living in the uk and would be off tomorrow if it where not for my wife and kids..

and if anyone is thinking of good places but not to work have a look at costa rica, i loved the people and the place...sod it i might do a walter mitty one day...

[gus]

Excellent post gus.This really is serious stuff.

As someone who has spent 20 years abroad I would have to agreed with that. If 'your' motive for living abroad is to find yourself then the chances are that you will ! That's the problem !When stripped of what passes for an identity; possessions,job, friends, family etc. there's really not much left...(I have to include myself in this) Can you handle that crushing sense of disconnection ? If you can embrace this emptiness you can make anywhere your home.

Yep. "Go for It."

.....have to go now, the doctors have just brought my medication...

Please can you send some out to me. I promise I wont OD.... just yet.

[Realistbear]

I'm not sure what have been reading, but the writer probably need to check their sources.

%30ish of americans aren't even white, so I doubt they really think they came over on the Mayflower.

Even of the caucasians, the vast majority are German, not British.

and as far as wanting to let in the "illegal Spanish" whom they can "pay peanuts and control them by fear of expelling them," I'd say that most tend to feel the same way about them that the British feel about the Pakistani and

Polish immigrants.

I'm not sure what America did to ruffle your feathers, but I'm sure it didn't mean it, and it was all a misunderstanding.

Almost right. IIRC the largest single group to populate the US are of German extraction. If you lump the Brits together its us! But most athropologists follow FIFA rules and do not allow you to form one entity out of Scots, English, Welsh and Irish (NI). Had our International football efforts been allowed to disregard the various British distinctives we could have fielded Liverpool FC a few times and won the World Cup more times than Brazil. These days it would not be possible given the "diversity" in British football. Shame really, as nationalism added a bit of spice to the game. But in these PC days...............................

On the emigration front. I am still vacillating. Plan B is to buy a house in Spain for eventual retirement and just keep a flat going here until I finish my career. The problem with the US is the medical situation and it isn't going to change anytime soon. It is also a bit bland there and I found I got bored most of the time as it seems like most towns are repetitons of the last one with the same shops, layout and feel.

Edited January 5, 2008 by Realistbear

[gus]

Almost right. IIRC the largest single group to populate the US are of German extraction. If you lump the Brits together its us! But most athropologists follow FIFA rules and do not allow you to form one entity out of Scots, English, Welsh and Irish (NI). Had our International football efforts been allowed to disregard the various British distinctives we could have fielded Liverpool FC a few times and won the World Cup more times than Brazil. These days it would not be possible given the "diversity" in British football. Shame really, as nationalism added a bit of spice to the game. But in these PC days...............................

On the emigration front. I am still vacillating. Plan B is to buy a house in Spain for eventual retirement and just keep a flat going here until I finish my career. The problem with the US is the medical situation and it isn't going to change anytime soon. It is also a bit bland there and I found I got bored most of the time as it seems like most towns are repetitons of the last one with the same shops, layout and feel.

I think we share a common problem RB , namely too many $ to contemplate conversion for the foreseeable future. When will we see 1.5 again?

I'm beginning to think I'll be forced to "move" to the US. Spending my time floating around (I have no Green C so I think it's 180 days max for me)then hopping over to Mexico or central America to comply with the cooling off period before renewal.

Panama is topical and sounds cheap and friendly. Has to be better than B'ham or Swansea on a wet day in January??

[Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz]

I'm just heading off on a 'viewing' trip to France. Will still work in the UK, just NOT from the UK. I've had enough of this Septic Isle [take a look at 'This Septic Isle: A Revised Dictionary for Modern Britain' - ]

.

Have noticed lots of people in these parts heading off to Canada and Oz.

Edited October 12, 2009 by gruffydd

[Cozza]

Thinking of leaving. Canada (Vancover) seems like a good option. Would have to close up shop here which might take a while though - who is going to buy a business for any reasonable amount now?

[Fool's Gold]

Come on, be honest, you know you would leave tomorrow if you were not so trapped, be it by:-

'Secure' job

Pension (Ha!)

....

(then the excuses)

Don't know where to go

It's the same everywhere else (you've never looked; too wrapped up in the UK mores)

You know (or should by now) the UK is stuffed in a big way this time.

So what really is keeping you?

Habit? - Fear? - Lack of languages?

Yes to all those I've highlighted. If you've got some suggestions for any of those concerns I will be genuinely interested.

I lost my job a few months ago and there is nothing on the horizon. I would like to leave the UK but those concerns highlighted above stop me. Feel free to PM me with any suggestions... but mainly... just what would I do for employment ?

Edited October 12, 2009 by Bill

[QP1]

Already gone...

...was offered a job in the Middle East and jumped at it - only been here a matter of weeks but so far so good.

Lucky timing as my previous contract (with a FTSE100) was cut 6 months early due to budget cuts and I was due to move out of my rental place.

Contract runs to mid 2011 but not now I've 'made the break' I'm not sure yet that I'll be coming back (though unlikely to stay in ME - NZ and Canada appeal if I have the opprotunity).

Have a half share of a house in the UK I'm keen to get shot of (long/complicated story) hence still lurking on this forum from time-to-time.

[1888]

Come on, be honest, you know you would leave tomorrow if you were not so trapped, be it by:-

'Secure' job

Pension (Ha!)

Kids at school

Can't sell house (fwiw!)

(then the excuses)

Don't know where to go

It's the same everywhere else (you've never looked; too wrapped up in the UK mores)

You know (or should by now) the UK is stuffed in a big way this time.

So what really is keeping you?

Habit? - Fear? - Lack of languages?

left over 4 yrs ago

best thing I ever did

I was extremely reluctant to do so at the time

but my wife talked me into it so I can understand others decision to stay

the thing is if u dont like it u can always move back

nothing ventured nothing gained

One thing I will say in defence of the homeland tho is I havent yet

found anywhere as beautiful as the west coast of Scotland

[Tuberider]

left 12 years ago

best thing i ever did as well

would never go back

shocks me when i visit the uk now and see how miserable everyone is

i think gal dove best sums it up in sexy beast :

“People say, "Don't you miss it, Gal?"

I say, "What, England? Nah. ******ing place. It's a dump. Don't make me laugh. Grey, grimy, sooty. What a shit hole. What a toilet. Every cant with a long face, shuffling about, moaning, all worried. No thanks, not for me."

They say, "What's it like, then, Spain?"

And I'll say, "It's hot. Hot! Oh, it's ******ing hot! Too hot? Not for me. No. I love it."

[LuckyOne]

The UK is a nice place to be if :

- You are renting (a much more efficient use of capital than owning here).

- You are a non-dom (the UK is the biggest tax haven in the world).

- You like watching and supporting "Commonwealth" sports like rugby, cricket and F1.

- The bulk of your assets are held offshore.

The biggest threat probably comes from the UK's status as the world's best tax haven for non-doms. If the tax rules change materially then the UK's main advantage relative to many other places will disappear in a flash and it will then just be a cold, wet, overcrowded and prohibitively expensive place to live.

If I were running the country, I would repeal all of the non-dom tax laws immediately. It makes no sense to disadvantage the domestic population by making it so attractive to ex-pats with money to live here. All that it achieves is to drive up the prices of everything (especially higher end houses) as ex-pats have a 40% to 50% advantage relative to the domestic population because of the tax differential on investment income.

PS. I am a non-dom and can plainly see how it is good for me but very bad for my current host country.

[hedgefunded]

I think the grass is always greener, and moving abroad isn't to be taken lightly.

From what I've seen of Australia and Canada, they don't appeal that much. Never been to New Zealand. Besides, I don't have any desirable skills to be allowed in (Though having won an Emmy recently I could perhaps work in TV again).

I'll probably end up with a small place in the UK and a small place in a country near the Alps.

[aa3]

For me its a spiritual/ancestral connection with the land and people. Most people prefer the sunshine and heat. I prefer the rain and the cool. When I look out and see the rain pouring down it makes me want to go out for a walk in the woods. I don't care much about material things. Only thing is I need to have enough food to eat, and the internet:). Personally if it was up to me I'd be renting an apartment, not owning a house. As for me it is a headache.

So far all their taxes, fees, fines, overhead etc.. have just made it so I rarely do anything that involves spending money. Friends gathering to play a board game, or going for a hike in the woods they haven't found a way to tax down yet. Their poorly thought out taxes tend to affect them more than me. They make it so expensive to go on a weekend trip, that many people stop going and the resort lays off many staff. I never wanted to go on a weekend trip somewhere anyway.

But I can certainly understand the tough choice many Brits face. For example imagine you were a geologist and because of radical environmentalism you weren't allowed to practice your trade in this nation. So you are faced with going to Canada or somewhere and making good money, having your own home and so on, but leaving your ancestral homeland, friends and family in Britain. Or an entrepenuer who didn't want an army of bureaucrats telling him how to run his business and who he can hire and fire.. so goes to Thailand to start his company.

Edited October 12, 2009 by aa3

[snowflux]

I lived abroad for nearly 10 years before returning to the UK (my town of birth) last year.

Although the UK certainly has its problems (overpopulation, in particular), I reckon that, in the event of a Steve Cookian apocalypse, it'll be better not to be a recent immigrant with no local connections, wherever you are. So I guess I'll be staying.