The Wilsons thread ---merged

[Flat Bear]

If you use a limited liability company to hold the properties and do not give guarantees on your other assets, this is not your problem

This is standard practice in the commercial property industry

Not in the real world

If you have a limited company and require any sort of sizable loan the bank will always require a personal quarantee commitment where they would look at any personel assets/colaterol you own to offset against.

This is not just for propery purchase but even for commercial leases landlords will demand personal quarantees from tenants before granting.

The only people that get caught out when companies go bust are the trade creditors the preferential creditors have holds in place. That is why secured loans are lower and the lower the LTV the better the rate.

[Uriah Heap]

I have no idea whether they will come out of it well or badly. I hope badly but I expect well. After all, they don't seem to be complete idiots so they should have put aside some sort of fund for their retirement beyond the reach of their creditors. But people do the weirdest things, so unless we get to see their books we'll probably never know.

I still hate them though.

(I am the OP if you hadn't already noticed.)

[Dorkins]

If you use a limited liability company to hold the properties and do not give guarantees on your other assets, this is not your problem

This is standard practice in the commercial property industry

Yeah, they seem like pretty smart cookies so probably they've protected themselves. Three cheers for the overpaid chancers in the finance sector who lost yet more of ordinary people's pensions on schemes like this.

[Neverland]

Not in the real world

If you have a limited company and require any sort of sizable loan the bank will always require a personal quarantee commitment where they would look at any personel assets/colaterol you own to offset against.

This is not just for propery purchase but even for commercial leases landlords will demand personal quarantees from tenants before granting.

The only people that get caught out when companies go bust are the trade creditors the preferential creditors have holds in place. That is why secured loans are lower and the lower the LTV the better the rate.

Small businessmen give personnel guarantees in many cases, I must confess I have never understood why

Large businesses generally don't unless their directors are stupid/desperate

Not having to give personal guarantees is one of the major advantages of being a large business

It depends on how the Wilsons structured their finance when things were looking good (as I've said all along) - they certainly had the option of restructuring into a large commercial property type facility within an SPV (special purpose vehicle) without cross or personal guarantees

[ARIMA]

These guys are coming off fixed rate mortgages and are running scared of BTL funding costs, hence their desire for a speedy liquidation.

As ever, cashflow is king and they could end up being caught between the rock of the low bid, and the hard place of cash burn.

I shall watch this space with interest*.

( * )

[Guest Skinty]

In the end, people in this country get the laws they deserve. That's a harsh call I know but the fact is if tenants started standing up for their rights and insisting on change things would change. People in england seem to just accept the fact they are going to get kicked in the head by people higher up the pecking order. That doesn't happen in other countries which is why they have better tenancy laws. I'm constantly fighting to be treated with some basic repsect and it makes my life more difficult than it needs to be. To be honest, I have now given up. I'm the only one fighting so why bother? I'll just move up my plans to emmigrate instead. Sorry, now I'm ranting (and insulting the english whilst I'm at it. Never a way to make friends

I agree. And then there are the people who try to appeal to your social side and make you feel like you are causing waves and being unreasonable. One agent said to us that there was a time and a place to stick to your principles and it would be easier to just accept what had happened. I don't think she understood what principles were ...

In the end we got the council on the landlord and he had to sell up.

[wealthy]

This will be an epic HPC thread!

700 properties of a single type hitting the market in one go. Guess we will see the effects of a flood of supply first hand now.

I can imagine they were pooing themselves prior to the recent uptick and are bailing out at the earliest opportunity.

I don't think they're hitting the market. Article says they'll be sold on in one lot, not trickled out to EA's.

[mew too]

I have been pondering this overnight (sad i know) and kept asking the same question - why would they come out and admit that they will be imminently dumping 700 houses on an already fragile market, the best way would have been to offload in chunks and quietly not to provoke a panic in ashford - this announcement will bring the market in that area to a halt - everyone will wait for the flood to pick one up cheaper, they are 10pct off in ashford already after this announcement imho.

So I think the idea with this announcement maybe to play the portfolio up a bit, say they have interested parties (which is no doubt a lie as the deal would be being done otherwise) and see if any crazy billionaire type who has too much money steps in with an offer. They are advertising for a buyer, a desperate and risky strategy!

[THE BALD MAN]

I don't think they're hitting the market. Article says they'll be sold on in one lot, not trickled out to EA's.

Why will anyone buy when they can just let them burn and then pick up the bargains

[wealthy]

Why will anyone buy when they can just let them burn and then pick up the bargains

Because property investment funds aren't necessarily smart money

[Laura]

Why will anyone buy when they can just let them burn and then pick up the bargains

So the press release was the usual spin we are oh-so-tired-of but know instinctively how to interpret.

I look forward to the millennium where scepticism* is no longer required.

* Oh ok, cynicism if you must

[Bloo Loo]

Oh you have my sympathy - the tenancy laws are a disgrace.

We were given notice out of the blue by amateur landlady 2 years ago, after 4 years tenancy, with 3 young kids and another on the way. Managed to find another place to rent, but it wasn't available until 5 weeks after the date she wanted us out so that she could sell. We wrote to her, explaining that we had signed a tenancy agreement for new place, just needed a few weeks' grace especially with a baby due any day, and that we would pay full rent in meantime and happily show people around. The bitch took us to court to have us evicted, had to go to court on day that baby was due (we were told that if I went into labour hubby would have to go to court even if it meant missing the birth). Judge was unsympathetic towards us but took the pragmatic view that the bailiffs' backlog was so long that we would be out before they could be brought into play. We had to pay the court costs of course.

Moved to new house when baby was 3 days old, left old house in immaculate condition, the builders moved in next morning with skip. My husband went back next day to collect our cutlery (a Viners set, a wedding present from my grandparents) which we had left behind in the rush. He was told with a big grin that he was welcome to search through the skip - he did, but needless to say it wasn't there. Soon after we got a letter demanding costs for cleaners, a new oven, etc. etc.

We were good tenants, looked after house, paid rent on time every time - and yet this amateur landlady with sh*t for brains had all the power and was able to treat us like cattle. Great system!

Sorry - went on a bit more than I meant to there - what I meant to say was congratulations on the birth of your baby, try to enjoy it as much as you can - and hope the rest sorts itself out! We're in SE too, and the rental situation is difficult, with landlords able to be very picky re kids etc. Not fair at all.

the notice to quit is no such thing in an AST. It is a notice that on such and such a date at the end of a tenancy the landlord requires possession. 5 weeks from the end to a court order seems extremely quick....are you in england and Wales?

The cutlery was yours and the landlord should compensate you. cleaning? go to court. get your money and deposit back.

[billybong]

Mr Wilson said that he now intends to take part in TV property programmes to mentor buyers and people buying their own homes.

The programme to be called "We sold all ours"?

[thecrashingisles]

The programme to be called "We sold all ours"?

No they'll call it "Let's get ours sold!" (arseholed)

Edited September 3, 2009 by thecrashingisles

[gilf]

Interesting.

Not particularly, if they were anything more than lucky they would have sold 18 months ago when they were telling people there would be no down turn in the property market.

[Laura]

The programme to be called "We sold all ours"?

The follow up comedy series (with association with Group4 Security) to be called:-

"Did You Buy One of Ours"?

(Extended repeats to include anger management advice)

Edited September 3, 2009 by Laura

[sbn]

Surely it would be called

"Ashford, Ashford, Ashford"

[pete.hpc]

Surely it would be called

"Ashford, Ashford, Ashford"

Or "Everyone hopes we get cancer"

[THE BALD MAN]

The programme to be called "We sold all ours"?

What about the sums dont add up for the Maths teachers

[@contradevian]

Sorry - went on a bit more than I meant to there - what I meant to say was congratulations on the birth of your baby, try to enjoy it as much as you can - and hope the rest sorts itself out! We're in SE too, and the rental situation is difficult, with landlords able to be very picky re kids etc. Not fair at all.

Examples like these should be sent to all MP's. If they were forced in AST's then the law would be changed within a year!

[pete.hpc]

Examples like these should be sent to all MP's. If they were forced in AST's then the law would be changed within a year!

Absolutely.

Whilst most of the rest of Europe provides comfortable and humane rental conditions for it's citizens, we continue to bow to the needs of BTL investors.

Truly shameful, one of the boomers worst legacies, and by christ they've left some real turds around for us to clean up.

Edited September 3, 2009 by pete.hpc

[shedfish]

Oh you have my sympathy - the tenancy laws are a disgrace.

We were given notice out of the blue by amateur landlady 2 years ago, after 4 years tenancy, with 3 young kids and another on the way. Managed to find another place to rent, but it wasn't available until 5 weeks after the date she wanted us out so that she could sell. We wrote to her, explaining that we had signed a tenancy agreement for new place, just needed a few weeks' grace especially with a baby due any day, and that we would pay full rent in meantime and happily show people around. The bitch took us to court to have us evicted, had to go to court on day that baby was due (we were told that if I went into labour hubby would have to go to court even if it meant missing the birth). Judge was unsympathetic towards us but took the pragmatic view that the bailiffs' backlog was so long that we would be out before they could be brought into play. We had to pay the court costs of course.

Moved to new house when baby was 3 days old, left old house in immaculate condition, the builders moved in next morning with skip. My husband went back next day to collect our cutlery (a Viners set, a wedding present from my grandparents) which we had left behind in the rush. He was told with a big grin that he was welcome to search through the skip - he did, but needless to say it wasn't there. Soon after we got a letter demanding costs for cleaners, a new oven, etc. etc.

We were good tenants, looked after house, paid rent on time every time - and yet this amateur landlady with sh*t for brains had all the power and was able to treat us like cattle. Great system!

Sorry - went on a bit more than I meant to there - what I meant to say was congratulations on the birth of your baby, try to enjoy it as much as you can - and hope the rest sorts itself out! We're in SE too, and the rental situation is difficult, with landlords able to be very picky re kids etc. Not fair at all.

if someone did that to me you'd be reading about it in the nationals, and probably not for winning any legal case

[eric pebble]

Yeah, they seem like pretty smart cookies /.../

[eric pebble]

The follow up comedy series (with association with Group4 Security) to be called:-

"Did You Buy One of Ours"?

(Extended repeats to include anger management advice)

[ScaredEitherWay]

If you were the average BTL schlub and you heard this pair were desperate to unload their entire portfolio in the next year, what would you do?

My money'd be on them wanting to buy them .... so gathering a merry band of fat, greedy fools to put in a bid. Maybe the W's CAN still find greater fools... until the envelope containing the mortgage offer is opened.