Roman Roady Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, henry the king said: PacWest and Western Alliance are going now Arent they just...how much are these two worth compared to FR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry the king Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Roman Roady said: Arent they just...how much are these two worth compared to FR? https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/lbr/current/ Looks like PacWest is no.53 and Western Alliance is no.40 First republic was no.14 Edited May 2, 2023 by henry the king Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 I see the yellow metal and its greyish cousin are having a bit of a price party on this news! Perhaps the penny is dropping with Mr Market??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry the king Posted May 2, 2023 Author Share Posted May 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Roman Roady said: I see the yellow metal and its greyish cousin are having a bit of a price party on this news! Perhaps the penny is dropping with Mr Market??? Shame, I sold my gold a bit ago! The fact two more banks are now on the brink is kind of crazy. BoE might hold rates now imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lagarde's Drift Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 36 minutes ago, henry the king said: Shame, I sold my gold a bit ago! The fact two more banks are now on the brink is kind of crazy. BoE might hold rates now imo Lol I just bought some more just before this latest bank share drops. These are mid tier banks so no great shakes. As long as they manage the contagion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_banks_in_the_United_States Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 32 minutes ago, Lagarde's Drift said: Lol I just bought some more just before this latest bank share drops. These are mid tier banks so no great shakes. As long as they manage the contagion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_banks_in_the_United_States Yeah. It's contained. PacWest Bancorp, $PACW, now down 29%, stock halted. Western Alliance Bank, $WAL, now down 25%, stock halted. Metropolitan Bank, $MCB, now down 24%, stock halted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 1 hour ago, zugzwang said: Yeah. It's contained. PacWest Bancorp, $PACW, now down 29%, stock halted. Western Alliance Bank, $WAL, now down 25%, stock halted. Metropolitan Bank, $MCB, now down 24%, stock halted. All is well. House prices went up. Panic not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blobsy Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 (edited) I think that american (or purported to be) chap on here called it, the bigguns are going to swallow up all the tiddlers. Edited May 2, 2023 by Blobsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 12 hours ago, zugzwang said: Yeah. It's contained. PacWest Bancorp, $PACW, now down 29%, stock halted. Western Alliance Bank, $WAL, now down 25%, stock halted. Metropolitan Bank, $MCB, now down 24%, stock halted. Three more banks you’ve never heard of and that don’t mean anything 9 hours ago, Blobsy said: I think that american (or purported to be) chap on here called it, the bigguns are going to swallow up all the tiddlers. Quite possibly. It’s weird how they survived so long against bigger competition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 26 minutes ago, scottbeard said: Three more banks you’ve never heard of and that don’t mean anything Quite possibly. It’s weird how they survived so long against bigger competition and this more than anything is the important bit - 3 banks you have to scratch around to find out about if you are looking for signs of the end times, used as signs that the end times is upon us. If these were Chinese banks Zug would be screaming how this was perfectly normal operation and the glory of the greater good... like when regional lenders got into trouble there a few years back. US bank failures are not that uncommon, its when the big ones start getting strained and go under you need to be aware. Right now the US large banks are seeing it as an opportunity to grab their smaller competitors without needing the M&A spend. There may be a banking crisis down the line at some point, but now it is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 42 minutes ago, scottbeard said: Three more banks you’ve never heard of and that don’t mean anything Quite possibly. It’s weird how they survived so long against bigger competition Another three banks this week! Obviously that matters. It's clearly systemic. The entire banking system is stuffed with ZIRP yielding garbage! Only a fool (or an economist) would continue to dispute its significance. And the knock on effects are already manifesting themselves in a sharp downturn in the US economy. Commercial real estate, airbnb, the hotel industry, residential property. Everything is priced to fail. And another rate hike from the congenital idiot Powell today, guaranteed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 10 minutes ago, zugzwang said: Only a fool (or an economist) would continue to dispute its significance. And the knock on effects are already manifesting themselves in a sharp downturn in the US economy. I don't dispute that a possible enormous recession is on the cards. But it's not a banking crisis: just poxy badly run companies going bust, that happen to be banks. A banking crisis would be if JP Morgan or Barclays was going bust - see 2008, 1929 etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wighty Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 48 minutes ago, scottbeard said: I don't dispute that a possible enormous recession is on the cards. But it's not a banking crisis: just poxy badly run companies going bust, that happen to be banks. A banking crisis would be if JP Morgan or Barclays was going bust - see 2008, 1929 etc Don't spoil Zuggies wet dreams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 @zugzwang, if it makes you feel better, imagine what would happen to HSBC if there were a war with China. I bank with HSBC in the UK, so I'm hoping the ringfencing turns out to be meaningful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 41 minutes ago, scottbeard said: I don't dispute that a possible enormous recession is on the cards. But it's not a banking crisis: just poxy badly run companies going bust, that happen to be banks. A banking crisis would be if JP Morgan or Barclays was going bust - see 2008, 1929 etc All of the US 2nd tier banks are stuffed with ZIRP paper, marked at par, offering nothing to depositors except the threat of insolvency. The same ZIRP financing has inflated enormous regional bubbles in commercial real estate and residential property. The CEO of JP Morgan has called it a banking crisis. So too has the CEO of HSBC. Both appear keen to persuade their respective investors that it's over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 Rather than banking COLLAPSE!!!!!! I'm more interested in whether a few small US banks collapsing will lead to a widespread reduction in the amount of bank credit being offered to businesses in the US, which may put the brakes on the current US boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Will! said: @zugzwang, if it makes you feel better, imagine what would happen to HSBC if there were a war with China. I bank with HSBC in the UK, so I'm hoping the ringfencing turns out to be meaningful. The Chinese are about to carve up HSBC and take ownership of what's left. Buh-bye. 🖐️ https://www.msn.com/en-xl/money/other/ping-an-continues-war-of-words-with-hsbc-over-proposed-asian-arm-listing/ar-AA1a9SIW The asset management arm of China's biggest insurer called for HSBC earlier this week to sell a minority stake in the bank's Asian arm through a listing on the Hong Kong stock exchange, with HSBC remaining the unit's majority owner similar to the lender's 62.14 per cent ownership of Hang Seng Bank. On Friday, Michael Huang, Ping An Asset Management's chairman and CEO, denied that its latest proposal was a "spin off" of HSBC's Asian operations and said it should not result in the "exaggerated global value destruction, surging operating costs and legal barriers as portrayed by HSBC". "Up to now, HSBC has not engaged in any deep discussions with Ping An regarding the new strategic restructuring proposal," he said in a statement. "As in accordance with the fundamental principles of global corporate governance principles, HSBC should at least respect their shareholders and their concerns or views." HSBC declined to comment on Friday, referring journalists to its statement earlier this week pushing back against Ping An's claims on the benefits of its proposal. The statement marks the latest in an increasingly heated war of words between HSBC and its biggest shareholder over the bank's strategy ahead its latest annual general meeting on May 5. At next month's meeting in Birmingham, England, investors are expected to consider a series of proposals by a group of frustrated minority shareholders to increase the bank's dividend payments and to radically reshape its business. HSBC has recommended investors reject those resolutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, Will! said: Rather than banking COLLAPSE!!!!!! I'm more interested in whether a few small US banks collapsing will lead to a widespread reduction in the amount of bank credit being offered to businesses in the US, which may put the brakes on the current US boom. They're not small banks. Credit slowdown's already happening. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-04-19/us-economy-stalled-in-recent-weeks-fed-s-beige-book-says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 16 minutes ago, zugzwang said: The CEO of JP Morgan has called it a banking crisis. So too has the CEO of HSBC. Both appear keen to persuade their respective investors that it's over. No doubt because they want lots of support and favours for the banking sector. These days every sector shouts they are in "crisis" - we have a "crisis" of not enough people to treat like slaves to pick vegetables, we have a "crisis" because of inflation, we have a "crisis" of a lack of people knowing medicine, or science, or to drive trucks. I have lived through a banking crisis in 2008. That was a genuine crisis, one in which - if the wrong decisions were made - we faced a real possibility of societal collapse and a failure of law and order. We were hours from the cash machines shutting, and that would have put us only 48 hours from being trapped on an island of 70 million angry and hungry people. THAT is a crisis. Given the last one before that was 1929, I'm not expecting to live to see another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 17 hours ago, henry the king said: PacWest and Western Alliance are going now Shares down 30% https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/pacw https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/Stock/WAL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 Just now, Roman Roady said: https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/pacw https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/Stock/WAL The CEOs of JP Morgan and HSBC call it a banking crisis. HPC's shoeshine boys say no. Who to believe? 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, zugzwang said: The CEOs of JP Morgan and HSBC call it a banking crisis. HPC's shoeshine boys say no. Who to believe? 😆 I'm sure the CEO of JP Morgan always says exactly what he thinks is the truth on all subjects, and has your best interests at heart in making comments and not those of his shareholders and his own bonus pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Roady Posted May 3, 2023 Share Posted May 3, 2023 14 minutes ago, Roman Roady said: https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/pacw https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/Stock/WAL 10 minutes ago, zugzwang said: The CEOs of JP Morgan and HSBC call it a banking crisis. HPC's shoeshine boys say no. Who to believe? 😆 Pac West looking dodgy today impo...another 1% now at -10.23, and look at the volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry the king Posted May 3, 2023 Author Share Posted May 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, Roman Roady said: Pac West looking dodgy today impo...another 1% now at -10.23, and look at the volume. These banks will be gone within a few weeks. I don't see how they can recover from this. Then the vigilante investors will move onto the next target. Over and over it will repeat. Maybe we get a month or two off here or there (between SVB and now is 7 weeks or so). Maybe even 6 months due to some investor delusion. But the trend is clear now. The weak banks are all going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.