Night Tripper Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, Grayphil said: Do you not think Lithuania, Latvia or Estonia are real states? Should they be annexed by Russia? I don’t think their concerns are relevant. it’s not for nothing the Russians refuse to eel with anyone at all in Europe and instead prefer to discuss matters directly with their puppet - masters - the United States of America Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayphil Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 58 minutes ago, zugzwang said: And by supporting Putin, (which you kinda do, even though you pretend you dont) you may as well have supported genocide. 🫵 How am I supporting Putin now? I have repeatedly said many times I do not support Trump in this current climate. But that any of that has anything to do with Putin invading Ukraine. I hope you manage to connect with reality in the future, it's been missing for you for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayphil Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, Night Tripper said: I don’t think their concerns are relevant. it’s not for nothing the Russians refuse to eel with anyone at all in Europe and instead prefer to discuss matters directly with their puppet - masters - the United States of America I'm not sure what you mean here, are you suggesting that Russia will negotiate with USA for Ukraine? Also, as soon as someone mentions "puppet masters" you can tell they are far off the deep end and well into conspiraloon nonsense. Hate to break it to you, Klaus Schwab or George Soros didn't tell putin to invade and exactly how much support the US gives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Tripper Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Grayphil said: I'm not sure what you mean here, are you suggesting that Russia will negotiate with USA for Ukraine? Also, as soon as someone mentions "puppet masters" you can tell they are far off the deep end and well into conspiraloon nonsense. Hate to break it to you, Klaus Schwab or George Soros didn't tell putin to invade and exactly how much support the US gives On almost any issue in Europe, Russia has stated they would prefer to bypass the middleman (the so called ‘independent’ nation states such as the UK) Are you trying to tell me that Ukraine - to give one example - are acting independently here? I would suggest the looney element are those that believe the USA aren’t pulling the strings here. The USA’s decision to keep supplying them weapons alone determines their ability to carry on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Night Tripper said: On almost any issue in Europe, Russia has stated they would prefer to bypass the middleman (the so called ‘independent’ nation states such as the UK) Are you trying to tell me that Ukraine - to give one example - are acting independently here? I would suggest the looney element are those that believe the USA aren’t pulling the strings here. The USA’s decision to keep supplying them weapons alone determines their ability to carry on. Finally the USA are doing the right thing. Like they did for Russia in WW2 (and we did our bit too), with 1000s of tons of arms and supplies, without which the Soviets would have lost the war or at the very least taken many more years to victory. Was WW2 a just war? Edited June 17, 2023 by jonb2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Night Tripper said: So Estonia has been part of Russia/Soviet Union for the last 400 years. Thanks for that confirmation. Laughable that you refer to primitive middle age activities to justify Lithuania. Which has hasnt existed as an independent state for centuries Laughable that you can't count. Russia annexed Lithuania 1710 until 1918 - 208 years. Then Soviets annexed it 1944-1991 ( 47 years) So 255 years maximum. It is so funny to add ignorance of mathematics to ignorance of regional history or a belief we live in the year 2223. So if Estonia was founded in 1200s that means nearly 400-500 years without Russia, plus the inter war period of 1918-1944, then the time since 1991 Soviet independence, I think we can agree they have been out of Russia longer than ever being part of it. Not your finest hour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, Grayphil said: How am I supporting Putin now? I have repeatedly said many times I do not support Trump in this current climate. But that any of that has anything to do with Putin invading Ukraine. I hope you manage to connect with reality in the future, it's been missing for you for a while. Putin invaded the Ukraine in 2014. Your man Trumpy was President from 2016-20. You can drop the virtue signalling act. We can all see through it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 18 minutes ago, Night Tripper said: On almost any issue in Europe, Russia has stated they would prefer to bypass the middleman (the so called ‘independent’ nation states such as the UK) Are you trying to tell me that Ukraine - to give one example - are acting independently here? I would suggest the looney element are those that believe the USA aren’t pulling the strings here. The USA’s decision to keep supplying them weapons alone determines their ability to carry on. You do realise this is made up nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, zugzwang said: Putin invaded the Ukraine in 2014. Your man Trumpy was President from 2016-20. You can drop the virtue signalling act. We can all see through it. Russia invaded Ukraine after meetng Xi to get the green light. Your man Xi was in power when he did it... you can stop the insults and self-owns now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Tripper Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Staffsknot said: You do realise this is made up nonsense. Tell me Ukraine are acting independently without the direction of the USA and then we know exactly whose making up nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayphil Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, zugzwang said: Putin invaded the Ukraine in 2014. Your man Trumpy was President from 2016-20. You can drop the virtue signalling act. We can all see through it. I'm not sure you can virtue signal on an anonymous platform, Its not like I would benefit. I will request that you up the calibre of your arguments, and try to keep it on topic, this is childish at best, must be frustrating for other forum users. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayphil Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, Night Tripper said: Tell me Ukraine are acting independently without the direction of the USA and then we know exactly whose making up nonsense I don't need a ride, I need ammo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Tripper Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Just now, Grayphil said: I don't need a ride, I need ammo ‘I want’ and ‘I get’ are two completely different things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, Night Tripper said: Tell me Ukraine are acting independently without the direction of the USA and then we know exactly whose making up nonsense The US are not operating at the direction of the US as the US kept saying no to certai weapons while Ukraine was demanding them. The Ukraine forces defeated the Russian forces attemping to take Kyiv while US & much of the West had written off their chances. Lastly US advised the to not launch an offensive this year and they went ahead and did it. Again you need it to be Russia vs US to save face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Tripper Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Staffsknot said: The US are not operating at the direction of the US as the US kept saying no to certai weapons while Ukraine was demanding them. The Ukraine forces defeated the Russian forces attemping to take Kyiv while US & much of the West had written off their chances. Lastly US advised the to not launch an offensive this year and they went ahead and did it. Again you need it to be Russia vs US to save face Let me put this more simply to you. when Zelensky begs the us for weapons this isn’t just so as he can ‘launch an offensive.’ it’s to ensure the survival of his entire corrupt regime. it’s barely worked so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Night Tripper said: Let me put this more simply to you. when Zelensky begs the us for weapons this isn’t just so as he can ‘launch an offensive.’ it’s to ensure the survival of his entire corrupt regime. it’s barely worked so far. Let me put it simply - Putin needs to try and scrape out something he can call victory to: "...ensure the survival of his entire corrupt regime. it’s barely worked so far" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Tripper Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, Staffsknot said: Let me put it simply - Putin needs to try and scrape out something he can call victory to: "...ensure the survival of his entire corrupt regime. it’s barely worked so far" Sorry why are you changing the topic from the actual area of discussion which was the USA are directing/ensuring the survival of the present Kiev regime ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70PC Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 33 minutes ago, Night Tripper said: Sorry why are you changing the topic from the actual area of discussion which was the USA are directing/ensuring the survival of the present Kiev regime ? US support is teamwork, not directing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Tripper Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 27 minutes ago, 70PC said: US support is teamwork, not directing. Lol teamwork. you think the neo-con cabal consisting of the likes of Victoria Nuland are going to hand over billions of dollars worth of weaponry without directing when and where it is to be used? the same mad Nuland who was implementing the maidan in 2014 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957.amp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 I'm reading The Audit of War: the Illusion & Reality of Britain as a Great Nation by Correlli Barnett at the moment. I read The Collapse of British Power years ago, but I didn't follow up with the rest of his Pride and Fall sequence. One of Barnett's theses is that because Britain won World Wars 1 and 2 she never had to confront her problems in the way France, Germany and Japan had to. Maybe when this is over Russia will benefit from confronting her problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Tripper Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 51 minutes ago, Will! said: I'm reading The Audit of War: the Illusion & Reality of Britain as a Great Nation by Correlli Barnett at the moment. I read The Collapse of British Power years ago, but I didn't follow up with the rest of his Pride and Fall sequence. One of Barnett's theses is that because Britain won World Wars 1 and 2 she never had to confront her problems in the way France, Germany and Japan had to. Maybe when this is over Russia will benefit from confronting her problems. Britain actually ended up losing in ww2. The Battle of Singapore is the obvious and main example. I would say that was a far greater loss of power than Suez. Today, we can see ourselves as nothing more than a colony of the USA. We transported our gold reserves to USA and our national sovereignty to be occupied by US troops and Air Force until well into 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsknot Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Will! said: I'm reading The Audit of War: the Illusion & Reality of Britain as a Great Nation by Correlli Barnett at the moment. I read The Collapse of British Power years ago, but I didn't follow up with the rest of his Pride and Fall sequence. One of Barnett's theses is that because Britain won World Wars 1 and 2 she never had to confront her problems in the way France, Germany and Japan had to. Maybe when this is over Russia will benefit from confronting her problems. There is a great piece that Trafalar both made and broke the RN - it made them viewed as a great powerful force, but its mythologising made generations of RN commanders believe initiative was not a substitute for sticking rigidly to a plan. Dan Snow covered it in his book and how Jutland in WW1 was basically the RN suffering Trafalgar's shadow and not learning lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Tripper Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 the other issue that Russia wont have to conforont her problems as you put it is down to natural resources. Unilke us who have to hock everything we can just to keep the lights on and our bellies full, the Russians can sustain themselves indefinitely. Which is why it takes the combined western world/NATO to challenge them in any meaningful way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayphil Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Night Tripper said: the other issue that Russia wont have to conforont her problems as you put it is down to natural resources. Unilke us who have to hock everything we can just to keep the lights on and our bellies full, the Russians can sustain themselves indefinitely. Which is why it takes the combined western world/NATO to challenge them in any meaningful way. No one challenged Russia.. Of course Russia has enough Natural resources, its the biggest country in the world. It also didn't need to invade Ukraine to get more land. Is it possible that Ukraine has some minerals/resources that Russia would like to have more of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerchantNavy Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 19 minutes ago, Grayphil said: No one challenged Russia.. Of course Russia has enough Natural resources, its the biggest country in the world. It also didn't need to invade Ukraine to get more land. Is it possible that Ukraine has some minerals/resources that Russia would like to have more of? So what you're saying is Russia want to imitate the US by stealing foreign resources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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