Coronavirus - potential Black Swan?

[pig]

4 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

And the answer is? 3, 4, 5, 6, 7...........20, more?

When does it go beyond being a minor inconvenience?

As for "Let them make up their own mind", that's rich coming from you.

 

Once a year like flu would be par.

[Arpeggio]

Inventor of mRNA technology and critic of mRNA vaccines (Dr. Robert Malone) banned from the New England Journal of Medicine.

https://www.thedesertreview.com/opinion/columnists/inventor-of-mrna-banned-by-the-new-england-journal-of-medicine/article_4350cf46-27af-11ec-bf58-ab6dcf0152c3.html

Moderna COVID shot halted for all ages in Iceland

Confirmed: The Mater Hospital Was NOT Full of Unvaccinated 20/30-Year-Olds on Ventilators on the 22nd July

with FOI request.

NYT Corrections: Oct. 8, 2021

....and I doubt much of what they correct to is truthful either.

 

like all the other lies...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/new-york-times-forced-to-correct-major-error-on-ivermectin/ar-AAOyngx

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/gunshot-victims-horse-dewormer-ivermectin-oklahoma-hospitals-covid-1220608/

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/mississippi/articles/2021-08-23/health-dept-stop-taking-livestock-medicine-to-treat-covid

Edited October 8, 2021 by Arpeggio

[Bruce Banner]

1 hour ago, pig said:

Once a year like flu would be par.

This year alone it looks like four at least. Covid 1, Covid 2, Covid booster, flu and God knows what else.

These days you can't turn on the news without hearing about another new jab, for this or that, in the pipeline. They've really got the bit between their teeth, all for our own good of course, but do you really want to be going for a jab every two months for the rest of you life? Because I sure as hell don't.

[pig]

47 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

This year alone it looks like four at least. Covid 1, Covid 2, Covid booster, flu and God knows what else.

These days you can't turn on the news without hearing about another new jab, for this or that, in the pipeline. They've really got the bit between their teeth, all for our own good of course, but do you really want to be going for a jab every two months for the rest of you life? Because I sure as hell don't.

No, but I don’t think it will be every two months. Tbf I’ve no argument/proof it will be once a year other than the current suggestion that it might be 6 months + .

[rollover]

1 in 14 pupils at English secondary schools have Covid

One in 14 secondary school-age children had Covid last week, according to figures released by the Office for National Statistics. The substantial increase – up from an estimated one in 20 pupils the previous week.

The ONS survey, based on swabs collected from randomly selected households, showed an overall increase in Covid infections in England from one in 85 people to one in 70 in the week ending 2 October.

Guardian

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

31 minutes ago, rollover said:

1 in 14 pupils at English secondary schools have Covid

One in 14 secondary school-age children had Covid last week, according to figures released by the Office for National Statistics. The substantial increase – up from an estimated one in 20 pupils the previous week.

The ONS survey, based on swabs collected from randomly selected households, showed an overall increase in Covid infections in England from one in 85 people to one in 70 in the week ending 2 October.

Guardian

It's just a cold or asymptomatic, so doesn't matter in the slightest.

[Huggy]

8 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

It's just a cold or asymptomatic, so doesn't matter in the slightest.

Indeed. The kids'll be fine.

This graph from yesterday in my view is the important one. It's looking really, really, really, really, really good right now. The hospitalisations graph is also similarly outstanding.

An intelligent mix of lockdowns and vaccines have (again IMV) contributed to this superior performance. We're a couple of months out of lockdown now too, kids have been back for ages too, we'll be fine now.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

Just now, Huggy said:

Indeed. The kids'll be fine.

This graph from yesterday in my view is the important one. It's looking really, really, really, really, really good right now. The hospitalisations graph is also similarly outstanding.

An intelligent mix of lockdowns and vaccines have (again IMV) contributed to this superior performance. We're a couple of months out of lockdown now too, kids have been back for ages too, we'll be fine now.

I'd also suggest a lot of the deadwood has been killed off. I said at the start of this that pandemics traditionally ended once all the deadwood was burnt.

Needless to say, the boomers will continue to stack the pyre quickly, so I am not holding out hope that we won't get another round of forced repression.

 

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

12 minutes ago, Huggy said:

 

I'd quite like to see the area under the graphs take from the first peak through the second to roughly the end of this summer and average it out and compare it with the area under the graph through this winter at the current death rate. It may actually be surprisingly similar in terms of death rate, to me it just looks like the peaks are bunched up.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Mikhail Liebenstein

[vadst43]

8 hours ago, pig said:

Tbf I’ve no argument/proof it will be once a year other than the current suggestion that it might be 6 months + .

maybe you're being fed porkies - think Israel

[anonguest]

16 hours ago, Ah-so said:

17 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

I always thought that the NHS was there to protect us.

By protecting ourselves, we protect the NHS. 

So none of us should ever do ANYTHING that might be a burden on the NHS?  Smoking, drinking, having car accidents, fail at suicide, fall down the stairs, cut our fingers, light your own farts.....?

IF, and I say IF, we are are going to be living in an era where we are have to live in the shadow of virus/disease that is endemic, neccessitating treatment/hospitalisation at rates greater than for flu, then we need to be prepared to expand/restructure the NHS so that it can cope with it.  IF the NHS cannot cope, long term, with Covid then it is not 'fit for purpose' for the new reality.  A historical analogy is how in much the same way that, for example, there were dedicated facilities for tuberculosis sufferers (sanitoria) to cater for the regular numbers.  Hospitals were then kept relatively free to deal with more routine stuff. 

It seems to me that what we have here is akin to recognising rising sea levels but making half hearted attempts to stop the tides coming in rather than spend the (greater) money needed to relocate/rebuild at risk coastal communities further inland and away from risk.  Building a whole new town, relocating/reconstrucing businesses/factories/etc 10 miles inland is deemed too much of an 'up front' expensive cost.  Much easier to tell people to build individual walls around their seafront houses ('lockdown'/social distancing/etc) or buy inflatable life jackets ('face masks') to protect against possible drowning if swept out to sea by huge seafront wave.... .  IF our environment has changed then we need to be prepared expend the effor/cost to adapt our institutions and infrastructure to it.

Edited October 9, 2021 by anonguest

[Huggy]

1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I'd quite like to see the area under the graphs take from the first peak through the second to roughly the end of this summer and average it out and compare it with the area under the graph through this winter at the current death rate. It may actually be surprisingly similar in terms of death rate, to me it just looks like the peaks are bunched up.

To me, and this is probably a bit simplistic but it's Saturday morning and I am in full relax mode, it just looks like the peaks arrive after we come out of lockdown and there are no vaccinations. Once we come out of lockdown and there are vaccinations, the increase is hardly anything. It's now a couple of months out of lockdown too and the previous deaths of the very old and frail can explain some of that, but for me the vaccines and any immunity from actually catching it have to be the main reasons, with a firm finger pointed at the vaccines as #1.

[Bruce Banner]

43 minutes ago, anonguest said:

So none of us should ever do ANYTHING that might be a burden on the NHS?  Smoking, drinking, having car accidents, fail at suicide, fall down the stairs, cut our fingers, light your own farts.....?

IF, and I say IF, we are are going to be living in an era where we are have to live in the shadow of virus/disease that is endemic, neccessitating treatment/hospitalisation at rates greater than for flu, then we need to be prepared to expand/restructure the NHS so that it can cope with it.  IF the NHS cannot cope, long term, with Covid then it is not 'fit for purpose' for the new reality.  A historical analogy is how in much the same way that, for example, there were dedicated facilities for tuberculosis sufferers (sanitoria) to cater for the regular numbers.  Hospitals were then kept relatively free to deal with more routine stuff. 

It seems to me that what we have here is akin to recognising rising sea levels but making half hearted attempts to stop the tides coming in rather than spend the (greater) money needed to relocate/rebuild at risk coastal communities further inland and away from risk.  Building a whole new town, relocating/reconstrucing businesses/factories/etc 10 miles inland is deemed too much of an 'up front' expensive cost.  Much easier to tell people to build individual walls around their seafront houses ('lockdown'/social distancing/etc) or buy inflatable life jackets ('face masks') to protect against possible drowning if swept out to sea by huge seafront wave.... .  IF our environment has changed then we need to be prepared expend the effor/cost to adapt our institutions and infrastructure to it.

Will we end up with a "Health by jab" (good three word slogan that) system where the NHS only exists to repair physical damage, everything else being taken care of by genetic modification via monthly jab? 

[Ah-so]

17 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Duplicate from HPC

Edited October 9, 2021 by Ah-so

[Ah-so]

17 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

And the answer is? 3, 4, 5, 6, 7...........20, more?

When does it go beyond being a minor inconvenience?

As for "Let them make up their own mind", that's rich coming from you.

 

I went to school with a girl who had Diabete and she injected herself on a daily basis. She seemed to think it was worth it. 

As I said on previously, it is a matter of proportionality, and given that you don't even want one jab, surely the matter is irrelevant to you. 

[Ah-so]

16 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Babble worthy of BJ himself .

Yeah, anti-vaxxer babble is amusing - I'm glad that you enjoyed my satirical take on it. 

[Bruce Banner]

1 minute ago, Ah-so said:

I went to school with a girl who had Diabete and she injected herself on a daily basis. She seemed to think it was worth it. 

As I said on previously, it is a matter of proportionality, and given that you don't even want one jab, surely the matter is irrelevant to you. 

Really, my vaccination status is private and none of your business.

Now, will you answer the question or will you continue to emulate the behaviour of BJ by refusing to answer direct questions.

[Ah-so]

12 hours ago, Arpeggio said:

June 11, 2021 More COVID-19 deaths have already been reported in 2021 than in all of 2020

At that point most of the vulnerable known for dying of / with PCR19 would have been fully vaccinated and the vaccines were "more effective", prior to "losing their efficacy".

I think that's the case in the UK, with the second wave following Christmas taking many grandparents to a relatively early grave. Luckily the rollout of the vaccine in Q1 has meant that deaths are now a fraction of what they were. 

[Bruce Banner]

[Ah-so]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Really, my vaccination status is private and none of your business.

Now, will you answer the question or will you continue to emulate the behaviour of BJ by refusing to answer direct questions.

You don't appear to want a single jab in relation to COVID - I thought you had made that clear. 

And I will happily answer a direct question if you ask one. If you have Diabetes, a daily jab might be appropriate. 

For COVID-19, I don't know. But if I am lucky enough to get to your age, perhaps I would be prepared to have it more regularly. If I was retired, popping down to the GP every few weeks doesn't seem to be the worst thing ever. 

There are a number of routine things I find quite irritating or dull, but if important enough, I will do. 

[Bruce Banner]

16 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

You don't appear to want a single jab in relation to COVID - I thought you had made that clear. 

And I will happily answer a direct question if you ask one. If you have Diabetes, a daily jab might be appropriate. 

For COVID-19, I don't know. But if I am lucky enough to get to your age, perhaps I would be prepared to have it more regularly. If I was retired, popping down to the GP every few weeks doesn't seem to be the worst thing ever. 

There are a number of routine things I find quite irritating or dull, but if important enough, I will do. 

I have made it quite clear that my personal vaccination status is private so stop trying to put words into my mouth!

Now, if you've forgotten the question as to how many jabs a year you consider acceptable, here it is again, and to limit the clever dick answers, I mean for the average person, which excludes diabetics.

As for retired folk "popping down to the GP every few weeks" for a jab, ye Gods, what sort of life is that?

Edited October 9, 2021 by Bruce Banner

[FallingAwake]

I think his answer is: "I'd take as many jabs as they tell me to take." At least, that's the summary in my opinion.

[vadst43]

6 minutes ago, FallingAwake said:

"I'd take as many jabs as they tell me to take." At least, that's the summary in my opinion

The diabetes injections are not vaccines so another diversion from @Ah-so

Vaccines not worth a jot if you keep needing another  

[pig]

4 hours ago, vadst43 said:

maybe you're being fed porkies - think Israel

That the case for  if/when we need booster shots looks  open for debate and further study ? How can that be a lie ?

If you have absolute certainty we need boosters to a timetable then by all means let us know.

Kind of important as plenty have not had an opportunity to have any vaccine at all.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

4 hours ago, Huggy said:

To me, and this is probably a bit simplistic but it's Saturday morning and I am in full relax mode, it just looks like the peaks arrive after we come out of lockdown and there are no vaccinations. Once we come out of lockdown and there are vaccinations, the increase is hardly anything. It's now a couple of months out of lockdown too and the previous deaths of the very old and frail can explain some of that, but for me the vaccines and any immunity from actually catching it have to be the main reasons, with a firm finger pointed at the vaccines as #1.

Some percentage 80/90/95% of those receiving vaccines wouldn't have died of COVID even if they caught it. But then 0.5% from total the population would have died of COVID, but will then just die from something else in the near term l..

I'm suggesting that lives are being put in the saved category, i.e. saved from Covid, when they are just dying of something else instead a bit later. I don't think Covid was ever that dangerous to healthy people, just good a administering the coup de grâce. There was a point when every death was mysteriously Covid, now that is not the case.

Edited October 9, 2021 by Mikhail Liebenstein