Theresa May: “There’s nothing inherently wrong with renting your own home...you’re not less of a person for doing so.”

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

On 09/03/2018 at 9:05 PM, Si1 said:

I agree with this - the tories, in bribing Paul (house owning boomers) by robbing Peter (non inheriting under 45s), won the 2015 election with Paul's enthusiastic cooperation, but have possibly achieved much the same as they did with the former regional industrial towns in the 80s, losing the whole of the North of England and more for decades.

The sheer dumb callousness with which they threw several whole demographic constituencies to the wolves is shocking. They did it, personally, to me and my children in order to gain someone else's votes who'll be dead soon. Fine. But they can't count on my vote for a very long time to come. That's just politics.

That is  exactly the issue. I have seen this situation building for quite some time.

I was lucky enough to be able to afford to buy age 26 in the year 2000, but then I had just landed a really good job. Most of my contemporaries  from school really struggled even back then as houses had got to 4-5 times annual income and were topping out at what people could borrow.  However, from somewhere, presumably Blair/Brown and no more boom and bust, the banks started lending more and prices rose shockingly fast up to the banking crisis.

Anyway , back to my contemporaries,  many are still renting and guess how they will vote? Yes not for the Tories. The only exception to this is people I know from University, but then a lot of then had inherited wealth  or ability to also land a good job. 

 

 

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

On 09/03/2018 at 10:03 PM, Maynardgravy said:

Fair enough. The north and south are two different beasts - but it did work in the south, according to my slight elders.

 

Oh, I'll bet you are... just matters how far you swing 

Just like everyone's a capitalist... just matters how far you swing the other way.

We need a new system that doesn't pit 18th century ideas against 19th century ones. Otherwise we're left with this toxic to-and-fro.

Do you mean a "Third Way"?

[Guest]

5 hours ago, yodigo said:

When I started looking at many towns to buy a house in I was shocked at how run down and chav filled most are. Add in lots and lots of crammed in new build estates miles from the centre and I can't see much attraction for living in them. Not sure it can be sorted out now, may be in the very long term there's a chance.

I often come across a place and think "I could live here", do a Google search and get a little p****d off because it has a chav problem. But after a while you realise the whole of the UK has a chav problem. I have liven in Winchester, Wimbledon and a few other nice places, all had a chav problem if you took the wrong turning.

[leonardratso]

liven eh? have you ever been in loven?

[Guest]

On 09/03/2018 at 8:41 PM, inbruges said:

I wonder just how many of the 500 odd MP's and all the Lords, how many are renting, my guess is close to 0% if not 0% itself.

As far as I remember the new way to fiddle expenses after the last scandal is now for a pair of MPs to buy a London BTL each, rent to each other, and then claim the rent on expenses.

So there's probably a bunch of them claiming 'rent' because they need to be in London, despite also owning a London property.

Edited March 11, 2018 by irrationalactor

[Si1]

9 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

That is  exactly the issue. I have seen this situation building for quite some time.

I was lucky enough to be able to afford to buy age 26 in the year 2000, but then I had just landed a really good job. Most of my contemporaries  from school really struggled even back then as houses had got to 4-5 times annual income and were topping out at what people could borrow.  However, from somewhere, presumably Blair/Brown and no more boom and bust, the banks started lending more and prices rose shockingly fast up to the banking crisis.

Anyway , back to my contemporaries,  many are still renting and guess how they will vote? Yes not for the Tories. The only exception to this is people I know from University, but then a lot of then had inherited wealth  or ability to also land a good job. 

 

 

TM is out of touch, but far less so than Osborne and Cameron were.

I understand that Tory backbenchers had received, ahem, robust feedback from their constituencies from working age working and middle class grafters who were in an unholy rage with Tory policies favouring the rich. This is white man van in the home counties, and a bloke with a reasonable office job he does 9-5. These were Thatcher's core voters. This is why May sacked Osborne. I'm not sure Hammond is much of an improvement mind you. At least he didn't go to Eton.

[Maynardgravy]

10 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Do you mean a "Third Way"?

God no.

Besides, there was nothing 3rd way about Blaire's vision.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

2 minutes ago, Maynardgravy said:

God no.

Besides, there was nothing 3rd way about Blaire's vision.

?

[Democorruptcy]

21 hours ago, Lurkerbelow said:

Labour put HTB in their manifesto at a time when they were absolutely desperate and thought they'd get crushed.  So they threw it in to get some HPI loving boomer votes.  They were not planning on or expecting such a landslide vote share among the under 45's.   Now they know who their voter base is so will better tailor their policies.   The Tories put it in because their core voter base is HPI loving boomers.

And why are you repeating the lies about Corbyn wiping out student debt?   You do know they are lies right?

Tell the Labour Shadow Minister, I cannot be bothered arguing for set of puppets versus another, they are both as bad.

 

[winkie]

7 hours ago, irrationalactor said:

As far as I remember the new way to fiddle expenses after the last scandal is now for a pair of MPs to buy a London BTL each, rent to each other, and then claim the rent on expenses.

So there's probably a bunch of them claiming 'rent' because they need to be in London, despite also owning a London property.

There are a lot of homes rented by friends a family....mates rates, paid full rate for by the state.....nothing new.

[Si1]

5 minutes ago, TonyJ said:

Except in the fiddle mentioned, MPs' 'mates rates' would be extortionate, squeezing as much as possible from their expense accounts.

Yes. I guess MP rates might be more generous and opaque than housing benefit

[winkie]

Just now, TonyJ said:

Except in the fiddle mentioned, MPs' 'mates rates' would be extortionate, squeezing as much as possible from their expense accounts.

Wouldn't know......but they would know and they would have to live with it.

[Lurkerbelow]

11 hours ago, Si1 said:

TM is out of touch, but far less so than Osborne and Cameron were.

I understand that Tory backbenchers had received, ahem, robust feedback from their constituencies from working age working and middle class grafters who were in an unholy rage with Tory policies favouring the rich. This is white man van in the home counties, and a bloke with a reasonable office job he does 9-5. These were Thatcher's core voters. This is why May sacked Osborne. I'm not sure Hammond is much of an improvement mind you. At least he didn't go to Eton.

You heard this from those within the party infrastructure?

[Lurkerbelow]

4 hours ago, Democorruptcy said:

Tell the Labour Shadow Minister, I cannot be bothered arguing for set of puppets versus another, they are both as bad.

 

 

That isn't Corbyn.   Show me where Corbyn personally or in the manifesto he put forward promised to wipe out student debt.   If as you say he did, then I'm sure you can post it to me.   Now please do so.   Either that or stop spreading what you full well know to be lies.

[leonardratso]

How very dare you ask for proof! his word as a true Englishman should be enough to convince you of it being true.

Theres just no integrity left these days.

.. Disgusted from Dorset.

[Si1]

22 minutes ago, Lurkerbelow said:

You heard this from those within the party infrastructure?

No, an opinion piece in the torygraph

[Thorn]

Inspirational stuff from the Leader- "Suck it up, renters".

Oh, ok then.

Is it just a numbers game- there aren't enough renters who have managed to get registered to vote by the time they've unpacked their stuff and tried to keep their kids on track with their latest forced house move and the chaos it brings, so there is no political voice to speak up for us?

Feels that way.

[Fence]

4 hours ago, Lurkerbelow said:

You heard this from those within the party infrastructure?

Essentially, yes I, for one, did.  A senior consituency manager some time ago quoting nasty seat predictions at the next election - and unlikely to be his dreamt up figures!  

The Cameron era seemed to lack proper strategic thinking, starting with the leadership election itself.  Poor tactics and maybe other priorities dressed up as strategy.  It was the crucial time and has became a lost opportunity.  None of this was difficult to assess and deal with at the time.

A failure or a deliberate choice, then and since, by the "king makers".

The party, internally, seems to be in an even worse functional and ideological state - at a point where it needs to fail badly to reset.  It was a toxic brand, was given an amazing chance, but now remains a toxic brand.  Maybe many know this and are behaving accordingly.

You can only fool some of the people some of the time - and then you have to say no to your friends, benefactors and metro myopia and connect and deliver to white van man.  An idiotic failure of sustainability and an ensuing retreat, yet again, into the wilderness.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Fence

[Dorkins]

13 hours ago, Fence said:

Essentially, yes I, for one, did.  A senior consituency manager some time ago quoting nasty seat predictions at the next election - and unlikely to be his dreamt up figures! 

It looks like the Tory constituency losses already started in London in GE2017, no surprise given the insane house prices there and the fact that private renting is now the most common form of tenure. I am curious about when this trend will spread to the rest of southern England. It seems crazy that the Tories draw most of their MPs from southern England, southern England is where HPI is at its worst, HPI is destroying homeownership and future Tory votes and yet the Tories seem totally uninterested in doing anything about HPI (other than causing more of it).

The Tories are sawing through the electoral branch they are sitting on.

Edited March 12, 2018 by Dorkins

[Democorruptcy]

13 hours ago, Lurkerbelow said:

 

That isn't Corbyn.   Show me where Corbyn personally or in the manifesto he put forward promised to wipe out student debt.   If as you say he did, then I'm sure you can post it to me.   Now please do so.   Either that or stop spreading what you full well know to be lies.

"I will deal with it" http://www.nme.com/news/jeremy-corbyn-will-deal-already-burdened-student-debt-2082478

Oopppss it's going to cost £100bn better wriggle out http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40697326

 

[Si1]

9 hours ago, Fence said:

 

The party, internally, seems to be in an even worse functional and ideological state - at a point where it needs to fail badly to reset.  It was a toxic brand, was given an amazing chance, but now remains a toxic brand.  Maybe many know this and are behaving accordingly.

You can only fool some of the people some of the time - and then you have to say no to your friends, benefactors and metro myopia and connect and deliver to white van man.  An idiotic failure of sustainability and an ensuing retreat, yet again, into the wilderness.

 

the blue rinse tory swivel eyed weirdos in the constituency party

[iamnumerate]

On 3/8/2018 at 10:16 AM, disenfranchised said:

As somebody who has rented for 13 years straight and suffered no fault evictions 3 times, may I be the first to invite Theresa to ****** off.

The Tories have only been in power for less than 8 years - it was not their fault that you could not buy 13 years ago.

Saying that HTB was a really bad idea and they are awful.

However the blame is not entirely theirs.

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by iamnumerate

[Dorkins]

2 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

The Tories have only been in power for less than 8 years - it was not their fault that you could not buy 13 years ago.

Saying that HTB was a really bad idea and they are awful.

However the blame is not entirely theirs.

8 years is quite a lot of time to get something done, or at least to be able to point to things starting to improve because of measures you've taken.

[iamnumerate]

9 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

8 years is quite a lot of time to get something done, or at least to be able to point to things starting to improve because of measures you've taken.

True - S24 is better than nothing of course.  However I agree with you that the Tories are rubbish, just not so rubbish that people got priced out before they were elected.

[disenfranchised]

5 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

The Tories have only been in power for less than 8 years - it was not their fault that you could not buy 13 years ago.

Saying that HTB was a really bad idea and they are awful.

However the blame is not entirely theirs.

 

I could buy 13 years ago - a 1 bed cluster home with £10k of BOMAD. Seemed like a bad idea and I declined.

I was in a position to buy in 2012 without BOMAD, again I declined - believing as many did at the time that there was a risk of more pain to come.

New Labour presided over the ridculous bubble that ment I as a working 20 something in 2005 earning about the local average would have required BOMAD to access the pokiest most tiny property available. I am very clear on their culpability.

Cameron's pre-Downing Street diagnosis of "Brown's bubble" was on point. Given the sliding market in 2010-2011 I believed that the Conservatives were willing to let things take their course. 

I was unaware that there was an unspoken agenda to not only avert a crash (which I could accept as potentially necessary from a purely fiscal standpoint - we couldn't afford the banks to go bust again), but to swing the 2015 general election with Osborne's "nice little boom".

Since 2013, some houses within 20 miles of me have gone up +50%. 

That is a monstrous betrayal of the younger generation and the "jam today" policies the Selfservatives have pursued to stay in power are going to come back and bite them. 

I should be a natural Tory - middle class parents who both were, as were both sets of Grandparents - one set were card carrying party members & I work at a bank! 

As it is, I'm prepared to press the "unleash idiotic Marxists" button in 2022 if they don't stop with this woeful "it's OK to rent forever and for the boomer rentiers to control your life for one last election cycle" rubbish. 

No & **** you Theresa. If the Tories remain ideologically unprepared to do what is fair and right then once Brexit is out of the way, we can have Corbyn instead. I'm quite prepared to let him throw a grenade into the ponzi, blow everything to bits and start again. It's better that way than everybody else being screwed over to protect the smug home counties NIMBY demographic yet again.

The Selfservatives need to understand that. 

Edited March 12, 2018 by disenfranchised