Wayward Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 On 10/06/2017 at 5:51 AM, DrBuyToLeech said: Not really, no. If this was true then rents wouldn't be tracking inflation. 14% increase in rents since 2011, according to ONS, about 11% general inflation. This is because rents are determined by income due to: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_rent In fact, it's likely that immigrants are actually keeping rents down, by keeping wages down. I'm not a supporter of mass migration, but that doen't change how the market works. I don't agree with this, in fact it is counter to all common sense. Imagine the world consisted of a island will 100 dwellings and 120 families. the 120 families are bidding against each other for shelter. If the number of families is increased to 140 - and these addition 20 have half the spending power - that doesn't reduce the bidding pressure on the existing 100 dwellings. The new 20 need somewhere to live and therefore will bid although at the lower end of the market or two families combine to bid for one dwelling. Competitive bidding is therefore more intense and everything else being equal rents are under upwards pressure. Rents are not determined by income, this is one factor amongst many...when faced with a shortage of accommodation families will move in together in order to secure the bidding and find somewhere to live rather than the street. It may in future be routine in London for two or three families to live in one dwelling - the link to incomes is broken totally. Quality of life expectations are collapsing almost year by year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, Wayward said: I don't agree with this, in fact it is counter to all common sense. Imagine the world consisted of a island will 100 dwellings and 120 families. the 120 families are bidding against each other for shelter. If the number of families is increased to 140 - and these addition 20 have half the spending power - that doesn't reduce the bidding pressure on the existing 100 dwellings. The new 20 need somewhere to live and therefore will bid although at the lower end of the market or two families combine to bid for one dwelling. Competitive bidding is therefore more intense and everything else being equal rents are under upwards pressure. Rents are not determined by income, this is one factor amongst many...when faced with a shortage of accommodation families will move in together in order to secure the bidding and find somewhere to live rather than the street. It may in future be routine in London for two or three families to live in one dwelling - the link to incomes is broken totally. Quality of life expectations are collapsing almost year by year. UK rents are mainly determined by a combination of housing benefit and demand. Earned income barely gets a look in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 hour ago, spyguy said: UK rents are mainly determined by a combination of housing benefit and demand. Earned income barely gets a look in. The more you dig the crazier the UK has become. I go to work, not only to pay my rent but to pay the rent of immigrants, lazy c***s, criminals, terrorists and shysters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honkydonkey Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 45 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said: The more you dig the crazier the UK has become. I go to work, not only to pay my rent but to pay the rent of immigrants, lazy c***s, criminals, terrorists and shysters Stop going to work, that's what I did. I live in a van now, it's pretty cheap. However I understand it's not for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 3 hours ago, Wayward said: I don't agree with this, in fact it is counter to all common sense. Imagine the world consisted of a island will 100 dwellings and 120 families. the 120 families are bidding against each other for shelter. If the number of families is increased to 140 - and these addition 20 have half the spending power - that doesn't reduce the bidding pressure on the existing 100 dwellings. The new 20 need somewhere to live and therefore will bid although at the lower end of the market or two families combine to bid for one dwelling. Competitive bidding is therefore more intense and everything else being equal rents are under upwards pressure. Rents are not determined by income, this is one factor amongst many...when faced with a shortage of accommodation families will move in together in order to secure the bidding and find somewhere to live rather than the street. It may in future be routine in London for two or three families to live in one dwelling - the link to incomes is broken totally. Quality of life expectations are collapsing almost year by year. Obviously if accommodation stays constant but demand increases then we get house sharing etc increasing. And look http://www.telegraph.co.uk/goodlife/living/living-in-a-flatshare-in-your-50s/ Quote And, according to property listing site SpareRoom, over the last 5 years the number of people living in flatshares between the ages of 55 and 64 has risen by 343 per cent. Additionally, the over 65s have seen a rise of over 600 per cent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazypabs Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 On 08/06/2017 at 2:01 PM, TheCountOfNowhere said: Next immigration was 150K. That makes no sense. the Brits are coming back from spain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 4 hours ago, honkydonkey said: Stop going to work, that's what I did. I live in a van now, it's pretty cheap. However I understand it's not for everyone. Best answer so far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca13 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) Did anyone catch the Nigel Ferage on LBC tonight? Estate agent ringing in saying that Brexit was effecting his business with lack of Renters seeking property.. Available on Facebook LBC at 47 min Celebrate good times come on!!!! Edited June 12, 2017 by macca13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledMatty Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 21 hours ago, rollover said: Is it a U-turn? I think it's odds on that we will join EFTA and end up in a Norway type situation. If they limit benefits for non nationals then this should keep some kind of lid on immigration. Probably the only way to keep the majority of people happy (or from rioting). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 11 minutes ago, ExiledMatty said: I think it's odds on that we will join EFTA and end up in a Norway type situation. If they limit benefits for non nationals then this should keep some kind of lid on immigration. Probably the only way to keep the majority of people happy (or from rioting). Freedom of movement has to go otherwise the political shenanigans we have seen recently will be nothing compared to what will come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 26 minutes ago, ccc said: Freedom of movement has to go otherwise the political shenanigans we have seen recently will be nothing compared to what will come. You lost that vote, deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rollover Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 55 minutes ago, ccc said: Freedom of movement has to go otherwise the political shenanigans we have seen recently will be nothing compared to what will come. What will come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorrowToLeech Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 19 hours ago, spyguy said: UK rents are mainly determined by a combination of housing benefit and demand. Earned income barely gets a look in. Rents are set by income including all benefits. I ever said anything about earned income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorrowToLeech Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, Wayward said: I don't agree with this, in fact it is counter to all common sense. Imagine the world consisted of a island will 100 dwellings and 120 families. the 120 families are bidding against each other for shelter. If the number of families is increased to 140 - and these addition 20 have half the spending power - that doesn't reduce the bidding pressure on the existing 100 dwellings. The new 20 need somewhere to live and therefore will bid although at the lower end of the market or two families combine to bid for one dwelling. Competitive bidding is therefore more intense and everything else being equal rents are under upwards pressure. Rents are not determined by income, this is one factor amongst many...when faced with a shortage of accommodation families will move in together in order to secure the bidding and find somewhere to live rather than the street. It may in future be routine in London for two or three families to live in one dwelling - the link to incomes is broken totally. Quality of life expectations are collapsing almost year by year. The world isn't a closed economy. There aren't 100 people who are trapped here. People are moving here because it is profitable. If rents exceed income, no one will come. If income exceeds rents by too much landlords will raise rents, because there is nothing to stop them. Like all economic theory, this is a simplification (and I'm simplifying the explanation) but I stand by the basic principle. It may not match your common sense view, but it is established economics. Handily, it matches the data as well, at least to the degree of accuracy you'd expect. Rents are more or less tracking income, compared to say the inexorable exponential risk in prices, and the massive flow of migrants. Edit: I'm not claiming that renting is good, or affordable or fair, I think the existence of renting as a concept is disgusting. The theory predicts that landlords will steal most of most tenants incomes, and that renting is never really 'affordable' for many people. Nor am I in favour of sustained mass migration, high or low skilled, which is almost certainly pushing down wages and changing the culture in negative ways. Edited June 13, 2017 by DrBuyToLeech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, DrBuyToLeech said: The world isn't a closed economy. There aren't 100 people who are trapped here. People are moving here because it is profitable. If rents exceed income, no one will come. If income exceeds rents by too much landlords will raise rents, because there is nothing to stop them. Like all economic theory, this is a simplification (and I'm simplifying the explanation) but I stand by the basic principle. It may not match your common sense view, but it is established economics. Handily, it matches the data as well, at least to the degree of accuracy you'd expect. Rents are more or less tracking income, compared to say the inexorable exponential risk in prices, and the massive flow of migrants. Edit: I'm not claiming that renting is good, or affordable or fair, I think the existence of renting as a concept is disgusting. The theory predicts that landlords will steal most of most tenants incomes, and that renting is never really 'affordable' for many people. Nor am I in favour of sustained mass migration, high or low skilled, which is almost certainly pushing down wages and changing the culture in negative ways. Your explanation ignores housing benefit, also many immigrants get given cheap council housing so don't care about private rents. Edited June 13, 2017 by iamnumerate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Inflation up to 2.9% on weak pound, with the GE uncertainty this has/will hit spending and the economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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