An oath, an oath, my kingdom for an oath

[happy_renting]

3 hours ago, oracle said:

so we have sufficient oaths on statute already.

what is missing is sufficient punishment for misdemeanour or abuse of such oath....and the house of commons/public service,councils and judiciary seems like a jolly good place to start enforcing it.

javid is quite right,they should be setting a much better example than they have been,and now it's time to clean house.

 

vis a vis new entrants:10 year probationary period,any convictions adding to total of 12months during that period and it's out on the next plane.no appeals.

Taking an Oath would be mere theatre. If British values can be defined, then simply make it a law to contravene them.

Except one British value is, supposedly, tolerance, so it's all b*ll*cks anyway.

[stormymonday_2011]

18 minutes ago, One-percent said:

How does it feel to be in complete agreement with Diane Abbott?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38358164

 

 

Presumably she managed to compromise her principles enough to swear the Oath of Allegiance so that she could  take her seat in the Commons and collar her salary as an MP

[billybong]

Mr Javid seemed to be mainly referring to extending the oath to apply to more public sector workers and suchlike rather than to the general public.

If so it seems as if it would be a way of separating the loyalties of yet another tranche of government employees away from loyalty to the people.  For example MPs (as I believe was linked above) swear an oath of loyalty but not to the people.  

Incidentally some eu representives from the UK swear an overriding oath of loyalty to the eu and its treaties etc.

For example.

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-10-487_en.htm

 

[Guest TheBlueCat]

9 hours ago, The XYY Man said:

 

"The Day Thou Gavest Lord Is Ended" is my particular favourite.

 

Yes, mine too. Had it at my gran's funeral and hearing it now still makes me blub.

[winkie]

Don't think taking a oath will do much.......But historically we are a Christian country, and one of the values of Christianity is tolerance, but not all Christians are tolerant, but our country generally is tolerant of others.

Christian morals and values are good drivers to understanding and acceptance of others ....... 

http://changingminds.org/explanations/values/seven_virtues.htm

[Oliver Sutton]

Useless.

Get rid of faith schools.

 

[winkie]

28 minutes ago, Oliver Sutton said:

Useless.

Get rid of faith schools.

 

That is not very tolerant of you.

The bigger issue is having an integrated society......Where people learn about others and their differences, best practices, being able to communicate, mix together without fear of indoctrination......Freedom to choose and live peacefully in a society where huge changes have happened culturally in society over a relatively short period of time......If only life was that simple.

[Mrs Bear]

15 hours ago, One-percent said:

Mine, or at least the one I find most moving is "for those in peril on the sea".  Remember singing that one on Remembrance Sundays as a kid in the church on the cliff top. Very moving 

That was my father's favourite - we sang it at his funeral.  He was in the RN during WW2 and spent 2 years on the North Atlantic convoys in tiny little ships - bloody lucky to have survived. 

I am not at all religious, but do love lots of hymns. 

[One-percent]

2 hours ago, Mrs Bear said:

That was my father's favourite - we sang it at his funeral.  He was in the RN during WW2 and spent 2 years on the North Atlantic convoys in tiny little ships - bloody lucky to have survived. 

I am not at all religious, but do love lots of hymns. 

There is something special about the old hymns and at this time of year carols that we are all familiar with. Like you, I'm not convinced by sky fairies but do like a rousing hymn 

[Frank Hovis]

15 hours ago, happy_renting said:

Taking an Oath would be mere theatre. If British values can be defined, then simply make it a law to contravene them.

Except one British value is, supposedly, tolerance, so it's all b*ll*cks anyway.

Quite. We didn't build the mightiest Empire even seen by tolerance and being terrified of offending people, rather that is how we lost it. It is a losers' credo.

I would happily sign up to any of this nonsense if required by work, as I attend Diversity & Equality seminars without complaint, but continue to hold it all in contempt.

[Sledgehead]

3 hours ago, One-percent said:

There is something special about the old hymns and at this time of year carols that we are all familiar with. Like you, I'm not convinced by sky fairies but do like a rousing hymn 

Goosebumps - Coventry Carol, Westminster Cathedral Choir - apologies for quality. Bleak mid Winter also a favourite.

If anyone knows of a distortion free version / less hiss, do tell. Later Kings recordings, tho cleaner, lack the higher registers.

 

[Bossybabe]

23 hours ago, happy_renting said:

I like Scotth Porage Oatth!

I start every day with the oatth 

[Riedquat]

4 hours ago, One-percent said:

There is something special about the old hymns and at this time of year carols that we are all familiar with. Like you, I'm not convinced by sky fairies but do like a rousing hymn 

Same here, almost to the point where I wish I was religious. Not just for the hymns, church too. As it is I've not set foot inside my local church.

[happy_renting]

Richard Dawkins has said that he enjoys Christmas Carols.

 

 

[Sledgehead]

Well that's settled then. Christmas carols: good.

 

Ah.

But that brings us to the thorny issue of carol singers.

More specifically the ones that only know Jingle Bells.

More specifically the ones that call just when you've poured yourself a generous cognac and are watching the Guns of Navarone. 

More specifically the ones that call just as Jerry is about to unleash David Niven's Gelignite mayhem.

More specifically the ones who only know the bloody chorus!

 

[Alba]

 This idea came about because of concern over Muslim enclaves developing in Britain and the alienation they feel with our culture and laws etc.

Taqqiya would render this approach as a useless one.

 

[XswampyX]

47 minutes ago, Sledgehead said:

Well that's settled then. Christmas carols: good.

 

[billybong]

On 12/18/2016 at 5:21 PM, oracle said:

so we have sufficient oaths on statute already.

what is missing is sufficient punishment for misdemeanour or abuse of such oath....and the house of commons/public service,councils and judiciary seems like a jolly good place to start enforcing it.

javid is quite right,they should be setting a much better example than they have been,and now it's time to clean house.

 

vis a vis new entrants:10 year probationary period,any convictions adding to total of 12months during that period and it's out on the next plane.no appeals.

I suppose when it comes to oaths related to a job (MPs, some public servants and people taking eu oaths etc etc) it's generally speaking a condition of the job and normally a cushy job at that and if it's perceived that the oath is being broken then the job is put at risk - deselection or whatever.  The risk of that (deselection etc) happening might be quite small but likely sufficient to focus the mind on avoiding breaking the oath.

[Captain Cavey]

5 hours ago, Sledgehead said:

Well that's settled then. Christmas carols: good.

 

Ah.

But that brings us to the thorny issue of carol singers.

More specifically the ones that only know Jingle Bells.

More specifically the ones that call just when you've poured yourself a generous cognac and are watching the Guns of Navarone. 

More specifically the ones that call just as Jerry is about to unleash David Niven's Gelignite mayhem.

More specifically the ones who only know the bloody chorus!

 

Just slip on a burka before opening the door.

[oracle]

6 hours ago, billybong said:

I suppose when it comes to oaths related to a job (MPs, some public servants and people taking eu oaths etc etc) it's generally speaking a condition of the job and normally a cushy job at that and if it's perceived that the oath is being broken then the job is put at risk - deselection or whatever.  The risk of that (deselection etc) happening might be quite small but likely sufficient to focus the mind on avoiding breaking the oath.

not really.

by signing an oath(or contract of terms and conditions) with any company, you are agreeing to a level of service and commitment.

in the T's and C's  it will stipulate what is expected, and also what is not acceptable.

ie gross misconduct,fraud,insubordination etc are generally misdemeanours that will result in immediate termination of employment, and in some cases prosecution.

the public servants,judiciary etc sign a contract with the crown(underwritten and paid for by the taxpayer), and delegated office by the voter. why should there not be action against those who are in breach of their terms and conditions of employment?

[newbonic]

8 hours ago, Alba said:

 This idea came about because of concern over Muslim enclaves developing in Britain and the alienation they feel with our culture and laws etc.

Taqqiya would render this approach as a useless one.

 

I've heard imams preaching utter contempt for anglo-celtic 'culture and their man made' laws, if that's what you mean.

Personally, I don't think that oaths are worth the paper they're written on when their holy book sanctions Taqqiya, and endorses deception as part of ceaseless 'jihad of the mind and word' (as practised by Mo & co).

What the authorities should do, had they any spine and shame, is to apply the laws of the land equally to the these communities. There should be dozens of prosecutions and jail sentences for FGM every year for example, multiple wives should not be receiving benefits, and no more kangaroo 'sharia' courts, or barbaric slaughter whereby a bearded bloke mutters magic spells while slitting an animal's throat. There should be no more turning a blind eye to someone from places like Bradford taking 14 year old girls out of school and marrying them to a cousin who's a peasant from mirpur, just so he can immigrate to the UK. Etc.

I've also heard Muslim preachers on the radio in Rotherham giving instructions on the 'correct' way to beat the wife if she steps out of line, and to explain that she does not have the right, islamically speaking, to say No to sx. And this bloke was a respected  'community leader'..

If white chavs from a council estate tried that, the authorities would be on them like a ton of bricks.

[notMyName]

9 hours ago, Sledgehead said:

Well that's settled then. Christmas carols: good.

 

Ah.

But that brings us to the thorny issue of carol singers.

More specifically the ones that only know Jingle Bells.

More specifically the ones that call just when you've poured yourself a generous cognac and are watching the Guns of Navarone. 

More specifically the ones that call just as Jerry is about to unleash David Niven's Gelignite mayhem.

More specifically the ones who only know the bloody chorus!

 

Do people actually go door to door singing carols? I thought it was something the movies made up.

[Qetesuesi]

1 hour ago, newbonic said:

I've heard imams preaching utter contempt for anglo-celtic 'culture and their man made' laws, if that's what you mean.

Personally, I don't think that oaths are worth the paper they're written on when their holy book sanctions Taqqiya, and endorses deception as part of ceaseless 'jihad of the mind and word' (as practised by Mo & co).

What the authorities should do, had they any spine and shame, is to apply the laws of the land equally to the these communities. There should be dozens of prosecutions and jail sentences for FGM every year for example, multiple wives should not be receiving benefits, and no more kangaroo 'sharia' courts, or barbaric slaughter whereby a bearded bloke mutters magic spells while slitting an animal's throat. There should be no more turning a blind eye to someone from places like Bradford taking 14 year old girls out of school and marrying them to a cousin who's a peasant from mirpur, just so he can immigrate to the UK. Etc.

I've also heard Muslim preachers on the radio in Rotherham giving instructions on the 'correct' way to beat the wife if she steps out of line, and to explain that she does not have the right, islamically speaking, to say No to sx. And this bloke was a respected  'community leader'..

If white chavs from a council estate tried that, the authorities would be on them like a ton of bricks.

From this post and others, you seem to know a lot about Islam - have you done a course?  Any recommendations?

[One-percent]

11 minutes ago, Reebo said:

Do people actually go door to door singing carols? I thought it was something the movies made up.

Not exactly carol singing door to door but in the road I live, we met up one evening before Christmas in the road, mince pies, mulled wine and carols.  And this is london. 

[Sledgehead]

7 hours ago, Reebo said:

Do people actually go door to door singing carols? I thought it was something the movies made up.

Not exactly, but good point nonetheless.

Captain Carol Singer is in fact a Marvel creation. Indeed, a whole series of comic books were published in the early 30s based around the superhero, who distinguished himself from his stable-mates by eschewing violence, force and might in favour of twilight renditions of such crowd pleasers as "Silent Night", "Oh Little Town of Bethlehem" and "Good King Wenceslas". The Choral Crusader, as he was otherwise known, thus successfully fought crime by lulling a variety of malefactors into a state of peace and good will.

His arch-rivals, Hymn 'n' Hymn, were a couple off blonde-haired rappers. They would roam the city, gesticulating aggressively and spouting profanities, so as to remind ne'er-do-wells of their unfortunate beginnings and circumstances. This would inevitably result in a sense of entitlement amongst those listening, that manifested itself as criminal activity.

Each story would finish with an open-mic battle which our hero inevitably won.