Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[GrizzlyDave]

1 hour ago, rollover said:

 

If Conservatives win today, the Britain is toast one way or another.

I have to say - I think you are right.

I was going to vote Tory at the start of the election campaign but after foxes, kids meals, and police cuts I voted Labour.

[pig]

2 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

I have to say - I think you are right.

I was going to vote Tory at the start of the election campaign but after foxes, kids meals, and police cuts I voted Labour.

If they axe her do we get another election ?

[Riedquat]

2 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

I have to say - I think you are right.

I was going to vote Tory at the start of the election campaign but after foxes, kids meals, and police cuts I voted Labour.

Ditto almost, except that I can't face the idea of voting Labour or LibDem either, and no-one else is standing here. I'm not too bothered about the economic impact, Britain will still be a wealthy country even if it falls a bit, this obsession with eternal growth and regarding even not growing as bad is just plain moronic - it's how we manage it and how it's distributed that's the problem, but everything about the campaign has put me off. Jeremy "Any deal is better than no deal so give us as bad a deal as you like because we'll take it" Corbyn certainly isn't someone I can vote for, and the local Labour candidate is banging on about vandalising the place with building roads and houses, so to hell with her. LibDems an obvious no because of their anti-Brexit stance.

Edited June 8, 2017 by Riedquat

[pig]

26 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Ditto almost, except that I can't face the idea of voting Labour or LibDem either, and no-one else is standing here. I'm not too bothered about the economic impact, Britain will still be a wealthy country even if it falls a bit, this obsession with eternal growth and regarding even not growing as bad is just plain moronic - it's how we manage it and how it's distributed that's the problem, but everything about the campaign has put me off. Jeremy "Any deal is better than no deal so give us as bad a deal as you like because we'll take it" Corbyn certainly isn't someone I can vote for, and the local Labour candidate is banging on about vandalising the place with building roads and houses, so to hell with her. LibDems an obvious no because of their anti-Brexit stance.

Yes I think 'distribution' is the key. It's meant to be a socialist thing, spooking with memories of 'command economy' but when you look at it closely Torys are probably more fanatical about it - just considerably more sly.

A lot of people are really struggling though - I get your point but I don't think it's a time to be cavalier about the economy.

Also, can't say I'm into the Nimby-ism - from memory you're a bit of a 'Malthusian' ?

[pig]

5 hours ago, rollover said:

 

If Conservatives win today, the Britain is toast one way or another.

I don't know - I think The UK needs to evolve its democracy. In or out of the EU, Right or Left, economics is clearly over-done. It's OK being technocratic  and centrist when everything is dandy but  there will always be times of crisis and if all you have is billionaire brainwashers and their willing victims to fall back on THEN you're toast.

I've forced myself to read the DM this week and have to pinch myself that this is meant to be our 'establishment' - really that word should mean the 'best' of the country not a malignant Orwellian nightmare.

[kzb]

http://www.worldeconomics.com/Data/MadisonHistoricalGDP/Madison Historical GDP Data.efp

From this site you can download historical GDP data for many countries going back many decades.

[GrizzlyDave]

[pig]

7 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

 

Hard times make strong men fight good men

Good men work hard to create good times

Good times make weak men deaf to good men

Good men stay silent to create hard times

 

[Fromage Frais]

55 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Interesting..

This was the kind of scenario that kicked off modern sociology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun

Perhaps the most frequently cited observation drawn from Ibn Khaldūn's work is the notion that when a society becomes a great civilization (and, presumably, the dominant culture in its region), its high point is followed by a period of decay. This means that the next cohesive group that conquers the diminished civilization is, by comparison, a group of barbarians. Once the barbarians solidify their control over the conquered society, however, they become attracted to its more refined aspects, such as literacy and arts, and either assimilate into or appropriate such cultural practices. Then, eventually, the former barbarians will be conquered by a new set of barbarians, who will repeat the process. Some contemporary readers of Khaldun have read this as an early business cycle theory, though set in the historical circumstances of the mature Islamic empire

[Riedquat]

4 hours ago, pig said:

Yes I think 'distribution' is the key. It's meant to be a socialist thing, spooking with memories of 'command economy' but when you look at it closely Torys are probably more fanatical about it - just considerably more sly.

A lot of people are really struggling though - I get your point but I don't think it's a time to be cavalier about the economy.

Also, can't say I'm into the Nimby-ism - from memory you're a bit of a 'Malthusian' ?

Hmm, interesting questions (can you tell I've been to the pub after voting?)

I suppose I am somewhat cavalier towards the economy, although in the easier "This just doesn't work and is ****ing things up" sense rather than having a good solution, considering that human nature is what it is. Pandering to it isn't the answer though.

Am I Mathusian? I don't believe we're at the point where that really applies out of necessity yet, although I think it's obvious that continual populatioj growth first becomes good (handful of people in the middle of nowhere), then neither here nor there, then undesirable (long past that point, by a century or more), then impossible (still got some way to go). What I certainly want is less hectic, less busy, less impersonal, less souless. The problem with nimbyism is that its heart is certainly in the right place - it's rarely against anything that doesn't just make somewhere crappier, so I hate people who rant about nimbies, but too many of them are oblivious to the point of being contradictory to the wider picutre.

[GrizzlyDave]

3 hours ago, Fromage Frais said:

Interesting..

This was the kind of scenario that kicked off modern sociology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun

Perhaps the most frequently cited observation drawn from Ibn Khaldūn's work is the notion that when a society becomes a great civilization (and, presumably, the dominant culture in its region), its high point is followed by a period of decay. This means that the next cohesive group that conquers the diminished civilization is, by comparison, a group of barbarians. Once the barbarians solidify their control over the conquered society, however, they become attracted to its more refined aspects, such as literacy and arts, and either assimilate into or appropriate such cultural practices. Then, eventually, the former barbarians will be conquered by a new set of barbarians, who will repeat the process. Some contemporary readers of Khaldun have read this as an early business cycle theory, though set in the historical circumstances of the mature Islamic empire

Replace 'barbarians' with 'boomers'

[pig]

2 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

Replace 'barbarians' with 'boomers'

Nope - the young and immigrants of course.

[GrizzlyDave]

1 hour ago, pig said:

Nope - the young and immigrants of course.

They are the strong ones we need for the future. Well the points based selected immigrants through controlled borders ;/)

[Confusion of VIs]

If the exit poll is right, Brexit may have just died.

However, must admit I don't believe it myself.

 

[NuBrit]

I thought Cameron had made the biggest miscalculation in politics, but it looks like Theresa May will be giving him a good run for his money.

[pig]

12 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

If the exit poll is right, Brexit may have just died.

However, must admit I don't believe it myself.

 

Nor do I yet. But ... Im not a fan of Corbyn, I don't think a hung parliament is a good thing, but the Torys back in under May is quite depressing. If my feelings were a poll that would be a hung parliament.

Actually im not sure that would mean Brexit had died - 'Hard' Brexit has more chance of being shot down.

[pig]

56 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said:

They are the strong ones we need for the future. Well the points based selected immigrants through controlled borders ;/)

Yes - hence they are the Barbarians.

Ask Riedquat.

[Riedquat]

9 minutes ago, NuBrit said:

I thought Cameron had made the biggest miscalculation in politics, but it looks like Theresa May will be giving him a good run for his money.

Seems that way. I'm of mixed feelings about it. Having a government prepared to cave in to the EU would be bad, but the way May ran the campaign makes five more years of her look worrying. And I thought the last election was a lousy choce. My take is that she rather arrogantly assumed her lead was unassailable and unchangeable so could shove in to the manifesto whatever she felt like, which has rather bitten her on the backside.

[Confusion of VIs]

Just now, pig said:

Nor do I yet. But ... Im not a fan of Corbyn, I don't think a hung parliament is a good thing, but the Torys back in under May is quite depressing. If my feelings were a poll that would be a hung parliament.

Actually im not sure that would mean Brexit had died - 'Hard' Brexit has more chance of being shot down.

I think the Conservatives knew they were in trouble, I have just counted the communications I have had from them in the past two weeks 50+!!!

Brexit possibly dead for two reasons:

if they need the Liberals to form a majority their bottom line would have to be a second referendum.

next to no chance of getting a "no deal" vote through parliament, so the best the Brexiters can hope for is leaving for the EEA, which on here we all know is not leaving at all    

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

34 minutes ago, thisisthisitmaybe said:

Plenty of us said hung parliament on here. I said Tory-Lib Dem coalition but not sure the numbers will add up.

Another election.

Chaos.

And not good for house prices!

 

 

35 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

If the exit poll is right, Brexit may have just died.

However, must admit I don't believe it myself.

 

 

 

Yes, I believe Brexit should now be killed off.

The Conservatives will lose seats in the South entirely due to Breixt,  they may pick up some in North and Scotland, but won't close the gap. The issue they have is that the redistribution of UKIP votes didn't help them as they are so spread out - why has UKIP struggled to win parliamentary elections?

[moneyfornothing]

If the exit poll is true, then its fair to say that the Brexit majority has changed .. there is honestly not an appetite for Brexit now; it was obvious to the core 'Brexiter' that this election was about strengthening the govts hand in negotiations and seriously no other consideration mattered in the immediate future. This included being prepared for a bit of hardship and a hit to the pocket in the near term. But if that resolve has been diluted by the promise of 'free everything' from Labour, then it wasnt a strong Brexit vote in the first place. This country needs a period of chaos to focus the minds on making the right choice. Good luck to whoever forms the govt..

[pig]

4 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

I think the Conservatives knew they were in trouble, I have just counted the communications I have had from them in the past two weeks 50+!!!

Brexit possibly dead for two reasons:

if they need the Liberals to form a majority their bottom line would have to be a second referendum.

next to no chance of getting a "no deal" vote through parliament, so the best the Brexiters can hope for is leaving for the EEA, which on here we all know is not leaving at all    

Well, my equivalent was proverbial bloke in pub showing me doctored social media video of David Davis getting mauled on the news - funny but it did make me uneasy.

Are you sure 'no deal' wasn't an election posture ? It's one thing exploiting dim kippers, another looking down the barrel of a bleak future in 2 years time. 

[moneyfornothing]

Theresa May should resign as party leader and stay away from the front bench .. I say this as a conservative voter and a Brexit voter

Edited June 8, 2017 by moneyfornothing

[cashinmattress]

6 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

 

 

Yes, I believe Brexit should now be killed off.

The Conservatives will lose seats in the South entirely due to Breixt,  they may pick up some in North and Scotland, but won't close the gap. The issue they have is that the redistribution of UKIP votes didn't help them as they are so spread out - why has UKIP struggled to win parliamentary elections?

May is finished. As is Brexit.

[thisisthisitmaybe]

1 minute ago, moneyfornothing said:

Theresa May should resign as party leader and stay away from the front bench .. I say this as a conservative voter and a Brexit voter

She is finished in politics full stop. Question is who will be the new Tory leader. Probably Boris Johnson.