24gray24 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 21 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: I don't think the UK vaccine roll out as effective as everyone is claiming. We had already burnt through most if the deadwood, plus we have come out of winter into spring. A lot of other countries are running at similar levels, vaccine or no vaccine. A few may be having variant waves, but those will burnout too. By "deadwood" I take it you mean other people's grandparents and loved ones. If that is what you meant, it would qualify as toxic remainer mentality. Would you like to withdraw it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 1 minute ago, 24gray24 said: So the bountiful EU delivering 31m doses to the poor is a big fat piece of EU propaganda. Well, well. So who invented this story? No, it is me. I haven't read what they said exactly. Their claim is they are the main financial donor to Covax. Based on the document below they first or second depending how you count guarantees. https://www.gavi.org/sites/default/files/covid/covax/COVAX-AMC-Donors-Table.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24gray24 Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 5 minutes ago, slawek said: Nationalism is silly. It is our vaccine, we should be supplied first, we export more than you, we paid more to Covax, or in another words we are better than you for some reason. The beauty of pandemic is it doesn't care who you are, we are not out of woods until everyone is out of the woods. Nationalism isn't silly. It's dangerous. It says I take it all first (on a pretext) and you only get what's left as an act of our charity. The EU is showing its nationalist constituent parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, 24gray24 said: Nationalism isn't silly. It's dangerous. It says I take it all first (on a pretext) and you only get what's left as an act of our charity. The EU is showing its nationalist constituent parts. Now it is silly but could be very deadly. It should be kept in an underground vault, a hermetic jar with a big sticker "Don't open". Imagine there were no the EU, the situation would be much worse. Now at least they try to talk to each other. Hopefully they get much better at it and thinking me vs them will gradually disappear. That is the main reason I don't like Brexit. It is a step in a wrong direction, a regression, which could cost many lives down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 2 hours ago, 24gray24 said: By "deadwood" I take it you mean other people's grandparents and loved ones. If that is what you meant, it would qualify as toxic remainer mentality. Would you like to withdraw it? Nope, no withdrawing, it is a perfectly accurate and valid way to understand the C19 crisis. It is not emotional, it is an analogy. My gut feeling is the deaths only stop when those that are likely to succumb actually succumb or make themselves unavailable to the virus via isolation. The mutations will keep happening, they'll be the Turkmen, Albanian, French, Basingstoke or whatever strain next (why are place names back on the menu?) and those without immune systems will succumb, irrespective of vaccination. This will keep happening until the dominant strain finally finds a way to harmlessly live in the community. Indeed even C19 is harmless to 50%. The entire crisis has really been driven by baby-boomer panic. They are still a large group, the youngest of which are 53/54 and which extends to 75/76. Frankly they have been very selfish as nearly all of the impact so far has been paid by the 20-35 age group. I previously posted this chart, as you can see the change in employment disproportionately impacted the young. I can observe this clearly sitting in the middle as a GenXer. I can also see tax rising and pension ages being extended, again to pay for the boomers. I'm lucky enough to have a big pension pot and could easily retire at 55, but now the Government wants to raise the age you take a private pension to 57 from 55 by 2028 whilst also pushing out the state pension age to 67, it will then go to 68 for the late Millennials and Zoomers. So whilst this might be mildly inconvenient thing for me (I'm now racking up ISAs), it is going to be devastating for the Millennials and Zoomers. Not only are they being done over on stage 1 of adult life (house prices), they'll be done over at stage 2 and 3 (taxes) and finally stage 4 by later retirement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 3 hours ago, slawek said: No, it is me. I haven't read what they said exactly. Their claim is they are the main financial donor to Covax. Based on the document below they first or second depending how you count guarantees. https://www.gavi.org/sites/default/files/covid/covax/COVAX-AMC-Donors-Table.pdf According to that: "Team Europe" (which includes Norway and Iceland) $2102m UK $735m Per capita Team Europe $4.66 UK $10.97 Per cent of 2019 GDP (approx) Team Europe 0.013% UK 0.026% As I said, no good turn goes unpunished. The UK person is contributing more than double the average EU person. Why is the BBC not telling us this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 3 hours ago, slawek said: Now it is silly but could be very deadly. It should be kept in an underground vault, a hermetic jar with a big sticker "Don't open". Imagine there were no the EU, the situation would be much worse. Now at least they try to talk to each other. Hopefully they get much better at it and thinking me vs them will gradually disappear. That is the main reason I don't like Brexit. It is a step in a wrong direction, a regression, which could cost many lives down the road. Then again there is a clear message to the world pharma industry: If you'd prefer not to have your premises raided by armed forces checking where your products are being sold, invest in the UK, not the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 6 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: I don't think the UK vaccine roll out as effective as everyone is claiming. We had already burnt through most if the deadwood, plus we have come out of winter into spring. A lot of other countries are running at similar levels, vaccine or no vaccine. A few may be having variant waves, but those will burnout too. If you mean that the vaccine rollout isn't the main reason for the decline in cases, then you are right. What did it was the harsh lockdown. The flip side of this is that several European countries are underestimating what it took for us to get B117 under control and are still dithering on lockdown decisions even while the virus runs rampant. France is probably going to go up to 1000 deaths per day in the next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 5 hours ago, kzb said: According to that: "Team Europe" (which includes Norway and Iceland) $2102m UK $735m Per capita Team Europe $4.66 UK $10.97 Per cent of 2019 GDP (approx) Team Europe 0.013% UK 0.026% As I said, no good turn goes unpunished. The UK person is contributing more than double the average EU person. Why is the BBC not telling us this? I was just explaining the EU claim. Read the post I was replying to. You are falling for nationalistic rhetoric: we are better than them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 3 hours ago, thecrashingisles said: If you mean that the vaccine rollout isn't the main reason for the decline in cases, then you are right. What did it was the harsh lockdown. The flip side of this is that several European countries are underestimating what it took for us to get B117 under control and are still dithering on lockdown decisions even while the virus runs rampant. France is probably going to go up to 1000 deaths per day in the next month. I don't think the lockdowns have particularly done much either. People still mingling and actually more so. My view is that a lot of those who were actually vulnerable have already died. It may take a couple of years to replenish the stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 5 hours ago, kzb said: Then again there is a clear message to the world pharma industry: If you'd prefer not to have your premises raided by armed forces checking where your products are being sold, invest in the UK, not the EU. Another jingoistic rubbish, not even factually correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: I don't think the lockdowns have particularly done much either. People still mingling and actually more so. My view is that a lot of those who were actually vulnerable have already died. It may take a couple of years to replenish the stock. Not true. The Dec/Jan wave higher. Stringency index higher too. Mobility as low as in April 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 1 hour ago, slawek said: Not true. The Dec/Jan wave higher. Stringency index higher too. Mobility as low as in April 2020. You say that, but we all know wave 1 had less testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slawek Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 14 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: You say that, but we all know wave 1 had less testing. I used the UK gov's deaths not confirmed cases. ONS deaths based death certificates show a similar pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 10 hours ago, kzb said: According to that: "Team Europe" (which includes Norway and Iceland) $2102m UK $735m Per capita Team Europe $4.66 UK $10.97 Per cent of 2019 GDP (approx) Team Europe 0.013% UK 0.026% As I said, no good turn goes unpunished. The UK person is contributing more than double the average EU person. Why is the BBC not telling us this? Is this one of those posts where for the purposes of argument we're suddenly not the largest economy in the known universe anymore ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: You say that, but we all know wave 1 had less testing. Go by deaths instead of cases and it's clear the Dec/Jan wave was the biggest. The rest of Europe is going through the same thing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHorseWaits-NoMore Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 World beating, ahead of the curve, riding the waves 👍. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 10 hours ago, pig said: Is this one of those posts where for the purposes of argument we're suddenly not the largest economy in the known universe anymore ? What's that got to do with what I posted? When have I or anyone else on here said the UK economy was the largest? The answer to that is never, so it's just a daft thing to say. Now, can you bring yourself to agree that, (1) the UK citizen has contributed far more to vaccine development and rollout than the average EU citizen, and (2) The UK citizen is contributing double the amount to COVAX as the average EU citizen is contributing? That is all I am asking; why is it so difficult for you to agree ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugsbody Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) On 27/03/2021 at 09:31, 24gray24 said: Not criticising it? There's been a political campaign to discredit it as unsafe! And temporarily suspending it because of 37 blood clots as the crescendo of the political campaign. Even though you'd expect that many blood clots per million anyway. "Not criticising it" ! What would the fellow (who calls anyone who disagrees with him a liar) call this? Your world view is shaped too much by your intense bias to be able to understand why what you've typed above is incorrect. Just start with the fact that the EU regulator was recommending the vaccine as safe, while sovereign countries were temporarily halting usage to perform an investigation into some reports (including countries not even in the EU). They investigated then continued once they were satisfied. That is literally the job of a county's medical regulator. Yet 24gray24 on the internet knows better than the German and Norwegian medical regulator and insists all those experts were just wrong to do their job. Brexiters are a cult, beyond arguing with. Edited March 28, 2021 by dugsbody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 15 minutes ago, kzb said: What's that got to do with what I posted? When have I or anyone else on here said the UK economy was the largest? The answer to that is never, so it's just a daft thing to say. Now, can you bring yourself to agree that, (1) the UK citizen has contributed far more to vaccine development and rollout than the average EU citizen, and (2) The UK citizen is contributing double the amount to COVAX as the average EU citizen is contributing? That is all I am asking; why is it so difficult for you to agree ? lmao I am agreeing with you ! We're the largest richest economy in the known multiverse. Now we've been liberated from all those European peasants dragging us down with all their tiny economies pitiful pennies and socialist whining about long term mutual benefits, comin over 'ere to steal our jobs and our wimmin, we are even richer and more powerful ! We can now slap the likes of the US and China around. Huzza !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cocha Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-and-announcements--/uk-manufacturing-whirs-back-to-life-in-march-despite-headwinds-from-shortages--7849538.html Well we are about through the opening quarter and if this is as bad as things are going to get, I've really no idea what remainers have been whittling about for the last 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 15 minutes ago, pig said: lmao I am agreeing with you ! We're the largest richest economy in the known multiverse. Now we've been liberated from all those European peasants dragging us down with all their tiny economies pitiful pennies and socialist whining about long term mutual benefits, comin over 'ere to steal our jobs and our wimmin, we are even richer and more powerful ! We can now slap the likes of the US and China around. Huzza !! With this post you have demonstrated exactly what I have been saying about people like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHorseWaits-NoMore Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cocha said: https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-and-announcements--/uk-manufacturing-whirs-back-to-life-in-march-despite-headwinds-from-shortages--7849538.html Well we are about through the opening quarter and if this is as bad as things are going to get, I've really no idea what remainers have been whittling about for the last 5 years. What, you mean this one story from an obscure author is the depth of your research on the impact of a Tory designed hard Brexit on the UK economy? From the article: "Nevertheless, there can be no doubt that this progress is fragile and the sector continues to operate in a challenging landscape. Container shortages and higher freight costs are causing issues with supply chains and many firms are also encountering unanticipated difficulties with the new post-Brexit trading arrangements," he said. "It's therefore important for the government continues to support the sector through the coming critical weeks and months ahead." Edited March 28, 2021 by DarkHorseWaits-NoMore typo's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, kzb said: With this post you have demonstrated exactly what I have been saying about people like you. If they managed to solve Covid in a year surely with resolve we can cure 'nationalist cognitive dissonance' ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 21 minutes ago, pig said: If they managed to solve Covid in a year surely with resolve we can cure 'nationalist cognitive dissonance' ? You mean we've all got to accept that we are in the same league as the nazis, and we should be deeply ashamed of ourselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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