Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[thecrashingisles]

3 minutes ago, DEATH said:

The only way TM can get her way now is to call an election.

What do you mean get her way?  She supported Remain and thinks Brexit will wreck the economy. 

[XswampyX]

7 minutes ago, Arbitrage said:

********

Look on the front page of EU referendum leaflet that the government issued before the vote

"It’s your opportunity to decide if the UK remains in the European Union"

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517014/EU_referendum_leaflet_large_print.pdf

Was the government just kidding?

Before the vote nobody told anybody about how the referendum was only going to be 'advisory'

We're watching the end of British democracy

Most of the Conservatives are only there because they offered us the referendum to get out of the EU and so got elected. So not only are they trying to steal the EU referendum they are also stealing the last election as well. Now we will have to watch all the remoaners talking down our country in front of the whole world for the next two years. It will be like this thread but on the BBC. 

[Konig]

8 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

What exactly would they be protesting about.

That the High Court said our constitution does not actually allow (non-elected) Prime Ministers of the UK to take away our democratic, parliament-granted rights by using an ancient legal Royal Prerogative loophole, designed to shaft the peasants, to personally decide what Brexit actually means and what rights we may, or may not, be left with, once She has decided.

Big turnout I predict - may need at least two coaches - many more if they plan to stop by the side of the road to pick up those on here who 'are eating grass and want everyone else to'....

  

[cock-eyed octopus]

5 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Well those documents are clearly wrong. The referendum was laid into law as consultative/advisory.

Problem is that lots of Brexiters are trying to morph the result into something it wasn't i.e. an instruction as to which form of Brexit is acceptable. Meanwhile May is trying to avoid being held to account for the success/failure of the exit negotiations by in effect saying that whatever I can get is acceptable.  

They are not just wrong, they were a complete lie.

Now I'm aware there were lies & half-truths on both sides of the campaign. Part of being a grown up is to be able to distinguish those being economical with the truth from those who are genuinely mistaken & those who are being rational, logical & disinterested. The campaign made distinguishing between different arguments very difficult, usually because a lot of 'facts' were simply opinions.

However, the lie apparently being told by the official statements is of a completely different order. It is equivalent to ignoring the result of a general election. It is intolerable.

And it will not be tolerated.

 

 

[Konig]

2 minutes ago, ****-eyed octopus said:

It is equivalent to ignoring the result of a general election. It is intolerable.

And it will not be tolerated.

 

 

Which is why we end up with another General Election before article 50 is triggered.  And a GE trumps everything....

[XswampyX]

2 minutes ago, Konig said:

That the High Court said our constitution does not actually allow (non-elected) Prime Ministers of the UK to take away our democratic, parliament-granted rights by using an ancient legal Royal Prerogative loophole, designed to shaft the peasants, to personally decide what Brexit actually means and what rights we may, or may not, be left with, once She has decided.

Big turnout I predict - may need at least two coaches - many more if they plan to stop by the side of the road to pick up those on here who 'are eating grass and want everyone else to'....

  

No it didn't. They get to vote on article 50. That's it. They can jawbone all they like but it won't matter to the outcome of the 'only to be held after article 50 is invoked negotiations'.... will it. 

[pig]

2 minutes ago, Arbitrage said:

********

Look on the front page of EU referendum leaflet that the government issued before the vote

"It’s your opportunity to decide if the UK remains in the European Union"

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517014/EU_referendum_leaflet_large_print.pdf

Was the government just kidding?

Before the vote nobody told anybody about how the referendum was only going to be 'advisory'

We're watching the end of British democracy

It's a complicated situation - but there's  now a chance that it's  actually quite the opposite.

If the pot pourri of sovereignty anxiety, xenophobia, (non) economic strategy and general political omnishambles actually gets scrutinised, and that we then get to leave the EU with an actual fecking plan, that is actually in the best interests of the country then it's difficult to read this as a blow to democracy.

The problem arises if there is no credible strategy and A50 effectively becomes conditional on there being one.  Now that is a mess that could break my 'nominal' support for Brexit.

 

[GreenDevil]

1 hour ago, sammysnake said:

There's nothing more unifying than the establishment telling the working class. your vote counts for shit all

Plus 1.

Nothing changes. The only time we get to vote for something, And we get the best ever turn out, it counts for f all. Ssdd.

[Byron]

What is Corbyn's view of it?

Anybody know?

[RentingForever]

51 minutes ago, Arbitrage said:

We're watching the end of British democracy

Anyone who still thinks we have a democracy hasn't been paying attention for the past thirty-odd years.

To misquote Gandhi: "what do you think of British democracy?"  "I think it would be a good idea."

[pig]

11 minutes ago, hotairmail said:

I would argue against that. First of all you need to exit to 'take control'. Then it is up to the government of the day to shape that plan as you go along. That is the point....it is not about 'a plan'. It is about being able to shape one...in a way that is closer to the people so they feel empowered and can influence it. It is naive to think otherwise. Of course there will be a day one implementation of the desired plan of the government of the day, but does it really need to consult the Pigs of the world at every turn?

Well looks like the Judge agreed with you today ?.

We have always ultimately been 'in control' - that at least has been made clear over the last few months. The question is if we are now recklessly incompetent and (ironically) in the grip of a political delusion - and it's not looking good.

[workingpoor]

Brexit to be delayed by one year:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/03/brexit-could-be-delayed-by-a-year-following-high-court-ruling/

It is time to protest.

[rollover]

Brexit might never happen as Article 50 can be reversed at any time, experts warn

BREXIT might never happen because Article 50 can be withdrawn at any time despite the Leave camp storming to victory in the EU referendum, according to experts. At the very least, Brexit is likely to be delayed by several years as MPs pour over every minute detail in parliament, revealing Britain's hand to the world and continually weakening its negotiating position.

But it is a common misconception that if the Government does not get the verdict it wants, it can appeal again to the European Court of Justice. Aside from the fact this would mean the British Government was relying on an EU court to let it leave the Brussels bloc, it simply is not true.

 

The eventual Supreme Court ruling will set the scene for how much open political debate there will be in parliament and how much scrutiny there will be. "I can't see it making it any easier or quicker. "It makes our negotiations extremely difficult because every aspect on the table will be subject to scrutiny."

Edited November 3, 2016 by rollover

[ChewingGrass]

Have noticed that the commissars have stopped stirring the euro pot lately, probably hoping that their troubles will go away. I think some quarters are quietly hoping that further dissent breaks out elsewhere in euroland before a decision has to be made over here.

[the gardener]

May needs to call a vote now. Woe betide any MP voting against it.

General strike looming I think.

[macfarlan]

5 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said:

I guess I missed the part where the gov gave a referendum to the people to vote on what we should do.

It's like parents asking their kids what they want for dinner; Brussels sprouts, or chicken nuggets. Then the nutritionists explain in detail how much better sprouts are than nuggets. Then the kids vote for nuggets. So mum calls in dad to make the decision, and dad clearly wants to keep the kids happy and elects for sprouts. But crusty old grandma pipes in about how kids should be seen and not heard, so finally the parents say well sprouts are better for you, so we will cook sprouts. So the kids get sprouts. Or maybe another chance to chose sprouts, cooked by mum or cooked by your crazy uncle jez.

Best seek council from the Irish government, they know how to get the right answer from a referendum.

No, its like the parents not actually having the chosen option anywhere in the house, or any real understanding of how to get it, and then trying their best to feel their way without admitting they havent a clue how to do it in fear of the chidren throwing their toys out the pram.

[thecrashingisles]

3 minutes ago, the gardener said:

May needs to call a vote now. Woe betide any MP voting against it.

General strike looming I think.

I think the country could manage fine without your labour.

[Byron]

It is an absolute disgrace that a handful of Millionaire London Elitists can frustrate the manifest will of the people

[ChewingGrass]

2 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

I think the country could manage fine without your labour.

You can bring the country to its knees without a general strike if enough people simultaneously turn on a 3-5kw appliance at the same pre-arranged time for 5 minutes and repeat until they get what they want.

[rollover]

Brexit doesn’t mean Brexit - you’ve lost, get over it!

James O’Brien said the court had no other option but to make its decision because Parliament are elected to run the country. Lord Chief Justice announced on Thursday that Mrs May does not have the power to start the official process of leaving the EU by triggering Article 50 without a Parliamentary vote. Lord Thomas declared: “The Government does not have the power under the Crown's prerogative to give notice pursuant to Article 50 for the UK to withdraw from the EU. ”Mr O’Brien criticised Mrs May for coining the phrase “Brexit means Brexit”, claiming she “got that wrong”.

All of the advisers, all of the campaigners, all of the geniuses who’ve been lying through their teeth for the best part of this year, they couldn't even come up a facetious slogan to describe what was going to happen next, without effectively breaking the law of the land or acting in the direct contravention of the law.

“These ludicrous belches about sovereignty and control coming from people who actually don’t know what it means –they’ve probably never heard of AV Dicey. “I don’t think you’ll get many people with their eyes open and their fingers not in their ears saying, ‘you’ve lost, get over it’, to people who seem upset by this judgement. 

[workingpoor]

Oh look the BBC rush out a "hard talk" article to try and buy the Government another month

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37866411

Hopefully the people now see the betrayal.

Edited November 3, 2016 by workingpoor

[macfarlan]

1 hour ago, pig said:

It's a complicated situation - but there's  now a chance that it's  actually quite the opposite.

If the pot pourri of sovereignty anxiety, xenophobia, (non) economic strategy and general political omnishambles actually gets scrutinised, and that we then get to leave the EU with an actual fecking plan, that is actually in the best interests of the country then it's difficult to read this as a blow to democracy.

The problem arises if there is no credible strategy and A50 effectively becomes conditional on there being one.  Now that is a mess that could break my 'nominal' support for Brexit.

 

This. Thank you.

[Chunketh]

1 hour ago, Arbitrage said:

No that's not true

Look on the front page of EU referendum leaflet that the government issued before the vote

"It’s your opportunity to decide if the UK remains in the European Union"

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517014/EU_referendum_leaflet_large_print.pdf

Was the government just kidding?

 

 

.

er...lets give 350million a week to the NHS....yeah that. Both sides very guilty of talking codswallop. The referendum was advisory and non-binding, end of story.

[Chunketh]

20 minutes ago, macfarlan said:

No, its like the parents not actually having the chosen option anywhere in the house, or any real understanding of how to get it, and then trying their best to feel their way without admitting they havent a clue how to do it in fear of the chidren throwing their toys out the pram.

This, exactly

[thecrashingisles]

13 minutes ago, ChewingGrass said:

You can bring the country to its knees without a general strike if enough people simultaneously turn on a 3-5kw appliance at the same pre-arranged time for 5 minutes and repeat until they get what they want.

The Brexiteers are a juvenile bunch.