Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[ccc]

I hate the way Cameron seems to be covering himself in glory at the way he has taken on the outcome of the referendum and the fact that the wishes of the majority need to now be carried out.

As others have said - he's saying that but passing the buck to someone else to actually do it. Pretty poor show.

He started this - he agreed to this - he should be the one that signs it and ONLY THEN hands it over.

That's my opinion anyway. Any PM with a backbone and any morals would.

I suppose that's the issue

[slawek]

You seemed to have missed the bit where we have started to leave the EU.

We shouldn't give a flying ****** anymore what the EU thinks or wants.

It's not our concern anymore.

Ffs there aren't half some soppy faced wimps coming out of the woodwork with this whole thing. (no offence personally)

The UK can do whatever it wants but the same applies to the EU.

[Digsby]

The invoking of article 50 puts us on a path whereby the EU can offer us any exit terms they wish and say 'take it or leave it' knowing we have to take it at the end of 2 years. By delaying invoking article 50 we are effectively saying 'we will keep all this uncertainty hanging unless you give us good exit terms'. Its basically a game of poker and someone has got to fold first.

And there is no reason why we cannot be negotiating trade deals with other nations in the meantime, strengthening our position, while they remain mired in uncertainty.

[slawek]

Our deal is what we want it to be.

I am afraid a deal is what both parties agree to.

[ccc]

I like this approach. My view, we drag it out until say 2 years 6 months before the next German and French elections. Then we kick of the leave process with the threat of tanking their economies just before the votes. The issue with doing it now is they will be at the start of their term and can survive a drop in their economy.

Oh, and veto everything in the meantime.......

The only thing with this plan is its a bit aggressive and threatening ? I don't think there is the need for this.

We just need to come out and say we're now looking after #1 .

I don't think we need anymore than that really.

It's what Churchill and Thatcher would have done !!!

Let's get some stiff upper lips

[Sheeple Splinter]

I hate the way Cameron seems to be covering himself in glory at the way he has taken on the outcome of the referendum and the fact that the wishes of the majority need to now be carried out.

He has career plans you know...

[ccc]

Why is this loser still bending over backwards for the EU .. nothing positive said about Britain's future

Yep - we are now in charge. Its incredible the number of people who just can't see this.

Or probably 'wont' see this is better wording .

[ccc]

The UK can do whatever it wants but the same applies to the EU.

Agreed. And at present the EU is in the process of collapsing. Only question is how long it will take.

What's the point making agreements with something that won't be around much longer ?

Let's just cut to the chase - get individual agreements sorted - and ****** off from this mess.

[ccc]

I am afraid a deal is what both parties agree to.

There aren't 2 parties here. There are 28.

And we don't need agreements with anywhere near 28 to come out of this in a far better position than we started.

[the gardener]

Here's what I would do.

1) Exit EU immediately, rescinding all Acts of Parliament that need to be.

2) If necessary go through the motions of Article 50 though I'm not sure that's even necessary.

3) Accept default WTO trade rules with regard to EU trade.

4) Negotiate mutually beneficial trade deals with other countries, perhaps concentrating on Commonwealth nations.

5) Wait for the European nations to come begging for better trade deals for their goods. They sell far more to us than we do to them.

It would involve a little short term pain and we'd have to delay purchases of BMWs and Audis for a while but that's no great loss in the scheme of things. Our £ exchange rate can adjust to reflect our changing balance of trade and we can adjust interest rates to suit us. The individual nations in the EU can't. We can bring the whole lot down and break up the EU. The smaller, peripheral countries will break first and take the rest with them.

Job done.

[moesasji]

Yep - we are now in charge. Its incredible the number of people who just can't see this.

Being in "charge" without having a plan is not a great position to be in. So far the noise the politicians are making scares the hell out of me as there seems remarkably little thinking of where they actually want to go with statements that clearly are not compatible with reality.

Edited June 28, 2016 by moesasji

[EssKay]

Why should they be? No-one decent wants the idiots to start frothing at the mouth and abusing people, but they'll always have been there looking for an excuse. Are the Remains troubled by every leaver being called a racist and xenophobe? Immigration is a real, serious problem after all, we shouldn't let it get hijacked by the racists and the equall bigoted supposed anti-racists.

Did you listen to the interview? If not, please do and tell me if you still think people shouldn't be troubled by this sort of stuff:

This a white, elderly German woman who has been here since the 70s, lives in a middle class area and is being victimised by other middle class pensioners - personally I've never heard anything like it (maybe I've just led a very sheltered life)

With regards to remain voters being troubled by leavers being called racists and xenophobes - name calling is never nice. I've yet to hear any leaver remotely as distraught as that old lady though

I don't agree immigration in of itself is a problem btw. I get the uncontrolled immigration argument- but as I said, I'm skeptical BREXIT will fix that

[Richmond]

The only thing with this plan is its a bit aggressive and threatening ? I don't think there is the need for this.

We just need to come out and say we're now looking after #1 .

I don't think we need anymore than that really.

It's what Churchill and Thatcher would have done !!!

Let's get some stiff upper lips

maybe not veto everything then. But I do think ensuring we have the strongest negotiating position possible is important (even if you don't openly say that - a bit Sir Humphrey style). Right now EU may be willing to cut its nose off as its key members will be safely in their new terms before the two years are up. Make a point and all nicely forgotten by their next election. So they have strength because of the two year time limit. They may be more pliable if their own domestic elections are just around the corner. Pretty sure this is exactly the sort of thing Churchill and Thatcher would do, they were adapt at the political intrigue game - but also good at not showing it in public. Not sure how you could drag it out for that long though without it becoming obvious.

Of course our own elections will also co-incide with this and dragging on until then may seriously backfire as people may be getting angry.

[moneyfornothing]

Here's what I would do.

1) Exit EU immediately, rescinding all Acts of Parliament that need to be.

2) If necessary go through the motions of Article 50 though I'm not sure that's even necessary.

3) Accept default WTO trade rules with regard to EU trade.

4) Negotiate mutually beneficial trade deals with other countries, perhaps concentrating on Commonwealth nations.

5) Wait for the European nations to come begging for better trade deals for their goods. They sell far more to us than we do to them.

It would involve a little short term pain and we'd have to delay purchases of BMWs and Audis for a while but that's no great loss in the scheme of things. Our £ exchange rate can adjust to reflect our changing balance of trade and we can adjust interest rates to suit us. The individual nations in the EU can't. We can bring the whole lot down and break up the EU. The smaller, peripheral countries will break first and take the rest with them.

Job done.

What he said... but why do I get the feeling our political pygmies will end up making payments, accepting immigration and claiming victory in negotiations

[Byron]

Is Roy really Injin in disguise.

He always disagreed with everyone, thought himself so superior and always posted utter nonsense.

I see that virtually everyone of Roy's posts contains an insult and also strong virtue signalling.

I have seen it on other forums, where a troll appears, tries to shout down everyone else and is totally disparaging of their point of view but feels the need to belittle them as well.

[Confusion of VIs]

There aren't 2 parties here. There are 28.

And we don't need agreements with anywhere near 28 to come out of this in a far better position than we started.

I am afraid you are wrong all 27 have a veto, so you either reach agreement with all 27 or walk away with nothing. Article 50 is deliberately intended to put the leaving party at a huge disadvantage.

[the gardener]

I am afraid you are wrong all 27 have a veto, so you either reach agreement with all 27 or walk away with nothing. Article 50 is deliberately intended to put the leaving party at a huge disadvantage.

Which is why we haven't triggered it yet I suppose. If the game is rigged against you play a different game. Keep them waiting and allow the prolonged instability to destabilise the EU. Scare them a bit more. Fear concentrates the mind. Edited June 28, 2016 by the gardener

[ccc]

I am afraid you are wrong all 27 have a veto, so you either reach agreement with all 27 or walk away with nothing. Article 50 is deliberately intended to put the leaving party at a huge disadvantage.

Yes - according to EU rules - the thing we are leaving.

And this article has never been utilised.

You do realise we could just tell them to ram it ? They're not going to invade us ffs !!!

Or is that what these discussions regarding an EU army are all about

[trekking]

Brits are irrational about the immigration, the EU is about freedom of movement.

Just one country can block a deal.

Lots of Poles send money home.

The EU can't give the UK a better deal because that would encourage others to follow.

"Lots of Poles send money home."

That's what I would do if I was Polish. However, the money sent home is not being spent in the UK.

"The EU can't give the UK a better deal"

Well maybe if they gave Cameron a better deal, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The EU is going to learn the hard way.

[Confusion of VIs]

Which is why we haven't triggered it yet I suppose. If the game is rigged against you play a different game. Keep them waiting and allow the prolonged instability to destabilise the EU. Scare them a bit more. Fear concentrates the mind.

I think the main reason is that at the moment we don't know/cannot agree what we want. I agree it's wise to delay invocation until we has resolved this but the instability destabilisation works both ways and may be more damaging to us than the EU as a whole.

[GreenDevil]

Here's what I would do.

1) Exit EU immediately, rescinding all Acts of Parliament that need to be.

2) If necessary go through the motions of Article 50 though I'm not sure that's even necessary.

3) Accept default WTO trade rules with regard to EU trade.

4) Negotiate mutually beneficial trade deals with other countries, perhaps concentrating on Commonwealth nations.

5) Wait for the European nations to come begging for better trade deals for their goods. They sell far more to us than we do to them.

It would involve a little short term pain and we'd have to delay purchases of BMWs and Audis for a while but that's no great loss in the scheme of things. Our £ exchange rate can adjust to reflect our changing balance of trade and we can adjust interest rates to suit us. The individual nations in the EU can't. We can bring the whole lot down and break up the EU. The smaller, peripheral countries will break first and take the rest with them.

Job done.

Agreed except I suggest the politicians use more forceful language, like go stick your EU and your BMW, mercs peugeot and citroens up your ass...

[trekking]

Ed Balls?

+1

You beat me to it

[Odysseus]

Yes - according to EU rules - the thing we are leaving.

And this article has never been utilised.

You do realise we could just tell them to ram it ? They're not going to invade us ffs !!!

Or is that what these discussions regarding an EU army are all about

+1 - you would be a mug to push the article 50 button and play by their rules.

[trekking]

They are not related but for ideological and political reasons the EU treats them as a package.

It's all part of their plan to create a single country:

Political union

Fiscal union

Single currency

Free movement of people.

[warpig]

Let's not blow things out of proportion, people are becoming hysterical. I don't believe for one second this is the British Kristallnacht. You could pick any day of any year and there would be dozens, if not hundreds of cases of racial abuse across Britain. I can't help but feel this is still part of project fear's campaign, to try and reverse the referendum or at least the spirit of the referendum.

I've just been on LinkedIn and there are people posting about this stuff on there as well... People are running around like headless chickens.

Did you listen to the interview? If not, please do and tell me if you still think people shouldn't be troubled by this sort of stuff:

This a white, elderly German woman who has been here since the 70s, lives in a middle class area and is being victimised by other middle class pensioners - personally I've never heard anything like it (maybe I've just led a very sheltered life)

With regards to remain voters being troubled by leavers being called racists and xenophobes - name calling is never nice. I've yet to hear any leaver remotely as distraught as that old lady though

I don't agree immigration in of itself is a problem btw. I get the uncontrolled immigration argument- but as I said, I'm skeptical BREXIT will fix that