SarahBell Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Just look at the consequences of taking children out of school for holidays. There's disruption for the child, the teacher and most importantly all the other kids whose schooling gets time wasted on someone who goes on holiday. We wouldn't have had a holiday when I was a kid if we'd had to go during school holidays but we never seemed to miss anything as we went towards the end of June when school is in that 'sod it phase' of waiting til the end of term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 There's disruption for the child, the teacher and most importantly all the other kids whose schooling gets time wasted on someone who goes on holiday. We wouldn't have had a holiday when I was a kid if we'd had to go during school holidays but we never seemed to miss anything as we went towards the end of June when school is in that 'sod it phase' of waiting til the end of term. I won't bite this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarahBell Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I won't bite this time. Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 Why not? Because I bit earlier, at the post you quoted, turns out it was a joke. I assume yours was too, but if not, my opinion should be quite clear from my other posts in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 The State wants your children , The state thinks they own your children....... Very many kids learn more on a weeks family holiday than a week in a crap school..... Many working parents can't both get 'school holidays' off as a holiday at their work.....trying to match two working parents to both getting school holidays off at the same time is almost impossible.......just because teachers get two months off a year doesn't mean the rest of the population can.....most firms can't close down for six weeks holidays, they would go bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail the Tripod Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 There's disruption for the teacher and most importantly all the other kids whose schooling gets time wasted on someone who goes on holiday.Not necessarily. They cover the same material in terms of core skills dozens of times. If you encourage and help your kids they'll constantly be years ahead (no exaggeration) of the expected attainment levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 They're both centralising statists. The current govt is just the most recent Blue Labour administration. Dave's "The big society" should have been a clue, but I missed that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FANG Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Parents should be able to take their children out of school anytime for up to 2 weeks a year. Instead of just in the main school holidays when the travel companies hike their prices. Fining parents is just a stealth tax. Any parent who has been forced to pay this should now apply get a refund. Some parents should be also fining the schools for their children's piss poor education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Nanny state....gone bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectrumFX Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 It's the sheer arrogance of it that gets me. The idea that my boy will learn more sitting in a class of 30 - while some bored women with too many cats reads through some notes she copied out of a book 10 years ago - than he will one to one with me walking around the Louvre is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail the Tripod Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 It's the sheer arrogance of it that gets me. The idea that my boy will learn more sitting in a class of 30 - while some bored women with too many cats reads through some notes she copied out of a book 10 years ago - than he will one to one with me walking around the Louvre is laughable. Almost literally what happened with us. My boys were in HK for Chinese new year, with their Chinese relatives eating authentic food, watching the lion dances and harbour fireworks, visiting the Toaist temple to light josticks for their ancestors etc. What schooling did they miss? A week dedicated to learning about Chinese new year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccc Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Just do what many continental countries do. Stagger the summer holidays between different regions. June, July, august and September instead of 6 weeks. Sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted May 13, 2016 Author Share Posted May 13, 2016 Or just let parents decide what's best for their children. Sometimes they'll get it right, sometimes not, just like the school teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest eight Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Many working parents can't both get 'school holidays' off as a holiday at their work.....trying to match two working parents to both getting school holidays off at the same time is almost impossible.......just because teachers get two months off a year doesn't mean the rest of the population can.....most firms can't close down for six weeks holidays, they would go bust. I'd just rather go on holiday during the long days of June rather than the shortening days of August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgul Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 The idea that my boy will learn more sitting in a class of 30 - while some bored women with too many cats reads through some notes she copied out of a book 10 years ago - than he will one to one with me walking around the Louvre is laughable. The trouble is the stuff in the Louvre isn't in the curriculum. Therefore the experience is worthless (in the measures of the UK schooling system). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigj Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 It's a massive overreach by the state. It doesn't matter if it's detrimental to a childs learning. That's up to the parent to decide - in the same way they (currently) get to decide what a child eats or what time they go to bed. Taking a child out for a week or two is not the same as failing to provide a child an education. As I understand it, this policy was not enforced for non-state schools which suggests it is not considered an issue of fundamental child welfare but is more about managing inconvenience. In which case, give me the state funding for my children and I'll go shopping for a more capable school outside the state system. As it is, most of us are held - quite literally - hostage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happy_renting Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I like the idea of parents issuing on-the spot fines for Schools that fail Ofsted inspections, the fines doubling if they are not paid to the parent within 14 days. I'm sure that the authorities will see the reasonableness of this punishment and incentive to raise teaching standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I go on holiday outside peak times usually May & October. It is cheap and a good clientel when i get there. The travel companies can kiss goodbye to a large chunk of their off season profits from those who wish to avoid the Football Shirt wearing entitled types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoo Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 The Govt responce was pathetic. They should look at the outdated 3 term structure and consider a complete revolution with respect to education. Old Model..... Cram a room full of kids with dull teacher and expect trouble. Parents have defined holiday times. New model.... Have rolling education throughout year... every day. Teachers entitled to 6 weeks holiday only. Parents can take holidays at anytime. Kids can drop into missed lessons via technology.....and so on. Why do teachers get 13 weeks? It was designed free up kids to gather in harvest during August. Those days are gone. The Govt. sound like a bunch of bullies with their knee jerk response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Ah, he won. Nice. Although we've got a massive problem with shitty education and a complete and utter lack of parental responsibility this blind application of as supposed "solution" is massively more offensive. Pity (but not surprising) that those feckwits in charge are unhappy about them, since rules appear to matter far more to those vile scum than whatever is a sensible response to individual circumstances. The really scary thing is that I've lost so much faith in people and the government that if I suddenly gained massive superhero powers that would let me take over the world I'd use them without hesitation - and in many ways (but by no means all) my dictatorial regime would be freer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherebee Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Ah, he won. Nice. Although we've got a massive problem with shitty education and a complete and utter lack of parental responsibility this blind application of as supposed "solution" is massively more offensive. Pity (but not surprising) that those feckwits in charge are unhappy about them, since rules appear to matter far more to those vile scum than whatever is a sensible response to individual circumstances. The really scary thing is that I've lost so much faith in people and the government that if I suddenly gained massive superhero powers that would let me take over the world I'd use them without hesitation - and in many ways (but by no means all) my dictatorial regime would be freer. I for one would welcome our Reidquat overlord. Can I have two blonde twins as my salary for being your bidding. er....female, attractive, over 18, not crippled, not dead, you get the gist, before you use your powers to gyip me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Government (Statist response was pure nanny state), the guy was perfectly reasonable and responsible. Fining parents is so NuLabour, sad to see Tories right on board with it. The girl in the court case was 6 yo FFS! Had a teacher/administrator on Twitter going on about parents 'stealing' from the state / it being akin to benefit fraud. Started calling me names. So I said the state needed to be shrunk. Not point arguing. The public sector is infested with people who have absolutely no common sense and zero flexibility if something is a diktat. State over family is the thinking. All that time in education and we are still having to import millions of immigrants because they are somehow better than what we have to offer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitevanman Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Ah, he won. Nice. Although we've got a massive problem with shitty education and a complete and utter lack of parental responsibility this blind application of as supposed "solution" is massively more offensive. Pity (but not surprising) that those feckwits in charge are unhappy about them, since rules appear to matter far more to those vile scum than whatever is a sensible response to individual circumstances. The really scary thing is that I've lost so much faith in people and the government that if I suddenly gained massive superhero powers that would let me take over the world I'd use them without hesitation - and in many ways (but by no means all) my dictatorial regime would be freer. Most people are in a state of Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to the state. They've simply lost the confidence to make decisions for themselves. It's much easier to passively hand responsibility to a higher power and avoid being burdened with any difficult decision making. What if you make a mistake?! Of course, if you see anyone around you trying to escape the Gulag, it's your duty to try and stop them. We wouldnt want people breaking free and being able to succeed of fail based of their own merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workingpoor Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 Has everyone overlooked the fact that this Dad had taken the kid on holiday during term time to Disney Land Florida But...... Also the Mother (divorced) had also taken this same kid out of school for a term time holiday earlier in the same year? This is the kind of thing the Gov Is looking to head off, total entitlement culture. Nobody owes these people anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted May 13, 2016 Share Posted May 13, 2016 I think it was a joke....that the consequences is a day in Court and a criminal record. I think this really goes back to the attitude of teachers that they blame parents if they get poor results. The chap who successfully fought the crowd funded defence spoke very well on Sky - well worth a listen. Including blowing apart that "non attendance causes poor results". He stated that when digging down into non attendance figures including illness, traveller families, truancy etc there were actually 2 categories that correlated with improved results - home study leave and family holidays. No doubt if you looked at these in more detail, you might find some other factors that cause out performance but needless to say, he dismantled the reasoning for fixed penalty fines. Whilst I hate the state having any say over family life, bear a thought that compulsory schooling is there actually to protect children. It is a difficult balancing act and one that was in pretty good balance until teachers were being held to account for exam results. Not sayng they shouldn't be, merely that is undoubtedly one of the unforeseen consequences....the govt doesn't want to give them any excuses. It's not compulsory schooling as I recall. It's compulsory education. By sending a kid to school you are hoping to comply with the law on compulsory education that is the parents responsibility. That responsibility does not go away simply because you send them to school.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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