One In The Eye For The State - Or Is It.

[workingpoor]

Petitions springing up now:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/130036

This is the end for a large number of people who like to holiday during off peak times. They simply wont put up with these entiltled types arriving.

[happy_renting]

Has everyone overlooked the fact that this Dad had taken the kid on holiday during term time to Disney Land Florida

But......

Also the Mother (divorced) had also taken this same kid out of school for a term time holiday earlier in the same year?

This is the kind of thing the Gov Is looking to head off, total entitlement culture.

Nobody owes these people anything.

People's deciding about what to do with their children, rather than passively letting the Government dictate that to them, is not 'entitlement culture'.

It is parent's entitlement, period. Their right by default.

If the Government attempts to act in loco parentis, it must justify it's presumed authority.

The Government forces everyone, including parents, to pay for education through taxation. It then effectively forces parents to surrender their children for state education. The Government therefore owes parents and children a lot, and often fails to deliver.

Personally, I never took my child out of school during term time, for pragmatic reasons, but I was never so irresponsible as to assume that the state knew better than me what was right for my child, and I regard the state as accountable to me for everything it did to/for my child.

People who surrender responsibility for their own children to the state are, by definition, irresponsible.

[the gardener]

Never let school get in the way of your education.

[SpectrumFX]

Has everyone overlooked the fact that this Dad had taken the kid on holiday during term time to Disney Land Florida

But......

Also the Mother (divorced) had also taken this same kid out of school for a term time holiday earlier in the same year?

This is the kind of thing the Gov Is looking to head off, total entitlement culture.

Nobody owes these people anything.

The key thing to my mind is the age of the child.

The kid is 6 years old. Six!

What vital life lesson could she possibly have missed in the 7 days he had her out of school?

I notice that the BBC decided to leave her age out of the article, but gave us this gem of a quote from the government;

the government says there is clear evidence "that every extra day of school missed can affect a pupil's chance of gaining good GCSEs, which has a lasting effect on their life chances".

With the government's constant meddling I doubt that GCSE's will even exist when this girl is of an age to take them!

[Wahoo]

It's just another example of Govts. screwing everyone down hard.

Nothing...absolutely nothing must be allowed to stop neo-liberal politics.

Tighten the grip around everyone's throat.

[ThePiltdownMan]

Government (Statist response was pure nanny state), the guy was perfectly reasonable and responsible. Fining parents is so NuLabour, sad to see Tories right on board with it. The girl in the court case was 6 yo FFS!

Had a teacher/administrator on Twitter going on about parents 'stealing' from the state / it being akin to benefit fraud. Started calling me names. So I said the state needed to be shrunk. Not point arguing. The public sector is infested with people who have absolutely no common sense and zero flexibility if something is a diktat.

State over family is the thinking. All that time in education and we are still having to import millions of immigrants because they are somehow better than what we have to offer!

In Scotland they are going to get "named-persons" - no doubt well intentioned busybodies but it will alter the parent-child relationship and make having kids even less attractive

http://www.gov.scot/Topics/People/Young-People/gettingitright/named-person

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10650090/Scottish-ministers-threatened-with-legal-action-over-state-guardian-plans.html

[CunningPlan]

I am seeing a lot of grumpy boomers not wanting children running around spoiling their own cheaper holidays.

This rule removing school's discretion was yet another kick in the teeth for the under 40s

And if school did such a good job why do nearly all my son's friends have tutors?

[justthisbloke]

I am seeing a lot of grumpy boomers not wanting children running around spoiling their own cheaper holidays.

This rule removing school's discretion was yet another kick in the teeth for the under 40s

And if school did such a good job why do nearly all my son's friends have tutors?

Why do your friends send their kids into the hands of the state? If they're doing the tutor thing, they're halfway to homeschooling.

[CunningPlan]

Why do your friends send their kids into the hands of the state? If they're doing the tutor thing, they're halfway to homeschooling.

My son's friends.

I think they use it as a top up mechanism. Hegarty maths and the like work for my son and don't cost £50+ per hour!

[happy_renting]

Note that these penalties were applied by the state without demonstrating, or being required to demonstrate, that a child has been harmed at all.

If teachers go on strike, presumably a child will be harmed in a similar manner. There is therefore a compelling argument that when a school is temporarily closed, the state should compensate parents & children, who have still been forced to pay for the education under duress.

In the private sector, a supplier is liable if they fail to supply or if what they supply is sub-standard.

If workingpoor wants a genuine example of 'entitlement culture', it is of the education system that is not held liable if a child suffers in a failing school.

[stormymonday_2011]

Note that these penalties were applied by the state without demonstrating, or being required to demonstrate, that a child has been harmed at all.

If teachers go on strike, presumably a child will be harmed in a similar manner. There is therefore a compelling argument that when a school is temporarily closed, the state should compensate parents & children, who have still been forced to pay for the education under duress.

In the private sector, a supplier is liable if they fail to supply or if what they supply is sub-standard.

If workingpoor wants a genuine example of 'entitlement culture', it is of the education system that is not held liable if a child suffers in a failing school.

It is not just strikes that inconvenience parents. The authorities regularly shut schools for all sorts of reasons such as teacher training days leaving parents with the cost of looking after them. If the state wants to 'own' kids then they are their responsibility all the time. The best way for parents to react to things like state sponsored mentors would be simply to turn up on such occasions with their children and dump on the various busy bodies who are going to be assigned that role

[Riedquat]

I notice that the BBC decided to leave her age out of the article, but gave us this gem of a quote from the government;

the government says there is clear evidence "that every extra day of school missed can affect a pupil's chance of gaining good GCSEs, which has a lasting effect on their life chances".

That's one bit that really made me shake my head, even before considering the age, and for two reasons. Firstly, really? Sure, there's a chance that you might miss some key lesson that might have a bit of an impact, but how likely is it really to have that much effect? And secondly (or perhaps it's part of the first) it's such an idiotically blanket-wide statement. Even if it has any merit at all it's completely pathetic to therefore make it a blanket argument that doesn't consider the individual circumstances.

Mind you perhaps there is some merit in what they're saying after all, if they all had holidays in termtime when they were children and the result is those cretins we see running the country.

[frozen_out]

The local private school has a 10 week summer holiday rather than the standard 6, which is obviously why the two local comps outperform it every year... Hmmm....

[justthisbloke]

They prob have longer days and Saturday school. When I was at school, I had lessons after supper

[Bruce Banner]

They prob have longer days and Saturday school. When I was at school, I had lessons after supper

Lessons or supervised prep?

[Riedquat]

Note that these penalties were applied by the state without demonstrating, or being required to demonstrate, that a child has been harmed at all.

That would require thinking and having to make a decision. No, over the top arbitrary rules for every aspect of life are the way to go.

[billybong]

It's the "I'm in charge" syndrome. It's one of Bruce Forsyth's old catchphrases. Where's the harm in taking your child out of school for a holiday for a few days as long as it's not all the time. Mountains out of mole hills. UK 2016.

[billybong]

It's just another example of Govts. screwing everyone down hard.

Nothing...absolutely nothing must be allowed to stop neo-liberal politics.

Tighten the grip around everyone's throat.

+1

It's becoming ever more blatant with every passing year. You can also bet there's a hefty amount of one rule for us and another rule for them plus large dollops of do as I say and not as I do.

[justthisbloke]

Lessons or supervised prep?

Lessons followed by two hours prep.

My kids started lessons at 0830 and didn't get back to their boarding house until 2030 or so. In their case, though, it was activities etc rather than lessons - but still a long day. And in the evenings they were expected to do "house duties". Oh, and 0600 farm-work occasionally. They were permanently shagged out - which is exactly the state in which teachers would prefer the inmates to be in, I'd imagine.

[MrPin]

On the live Sky interview the crowd funded defendant made another point that made my ears ***** up. He basically said that Isle of Wight is a truly beautiful part of the country to live and bring up kids, but that in fact they have terrible schools in terms of outcomes and he even mentioned they were below 'even' Tower Hamlets.

Basically, relates to another thread on here about "positive discrimination for white boys" needed to redress the imbalance ....caused by the concentration of state funding to schools on the doorstep of central government.

So, yes, the Isle of Wight, the government indeed, is failing the kids, all the kids of the Isle of Wight and the rest of the country like it.

EDIT: So we're going to lose the word p-r-i-c-k now are we. What about tool? Or todger? etc etc

There's nothing outside the M25. Just vapour and comets.

[Qetesuesi]

Petitions springing up now:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/130036

This is the end for a large number of people who like to holiday during off peak times. They simply wont put up with these entiltled types arriving.

Written without the slightest sense of irony.

I am seeing a lot of grumpy boomers not wanting children running around spoiling their own cheaper holidays.

This rule removing school's discretion was yet another kick in the teeth for the under 40s

And if school did such a good job why do nearly all my son's friends have tutors?

Whenever I read comments like this, on any forum, I wonder what on earth is wrong with where I live. I offer tuition in maths (obviously one of the perennially most in-demand subjects), and over the years have continued to be amazed by the low numbers of people even bothering to register at the (generally highest-used) sites I'm signed up to. I'm not talking about the ones that end up using my services - simply everyone whatsoever, regardless of whether they hire me or anyone else or nobody. And that in getting on for half a million people within a reasonable travel radius.

It's bad enough when I contrast that with what people keep posting online about how much work they've got or how many of their friends etc. are using tutors. But when one thinks that in Shanghai or Hong Kong it's like 80% of students have private tuition, and around here it looks like a small fraction of 1%, you really couldn't ask for a starker statistic to explain why China & co. are in the process of cleaning us hollow.

Why do your friends send their kids into the hands of the state? If they're doing the tutor thing, they're halfway to homeschooling.

That's very, very far from halfway in fact. Like private schools, homeschooling involves a de facto sacrifice of many, many thousands of pounds a year in forgone potential earnings. Tutoring in a given key subject, usually English, maths or science, will amount to the order of £500 over a school year. In terms of long-term leveraging for getting good GCSE grades -> good A level grades -> good university -> good degree -> good (higher-paying) job, that's an absolute bargain.

My son's friends.

I think they use it as a top up mechanism. Hegarty maths and the like work for my son and don't cost £50+ per hour!

Are you in a posher part of London? Where in the country is that the standard? My rates are £15-25 p.h. depending on year/level, and I certainly don't feel like I'm bottom-feeding. Not long ago a couple of Y13 students walked away when they found they were wrong to think I'd tutor them at the same rate as primary school pupils. Just lol.

[wherebee]

Written without the slightest sense of irony.

Whenever I read comments like this, on any forum, I wonder what on earth is wrong with where I live. I offer tuition in maths (obviously one of the perennially most in-demand subjects), and over the years have continued to be amazed by the low numbers of people even bothering to register at the (generally highest-used) sites I'm signed up to. I'm not talking about the ones that end up using my services - simply everyone whatsoever, regardless of whether they hire me or anyone else or nobody. And that in getting on for half a million people within a reasonable travel radius.

It's bad enough when I contrast that with what people keep posting online about how much work they've got or how many of their friends etc. are using tutors. But when one thinks that in Shanghai or Hong Kong it's like 80% of students have private tuition, and around here it looks like a small fraction of 1%, you really couldn't ask for a starker statistic to explain why China & co. are in the process of cleaning us hollow.

That's very, very far from halfway in fact. Like private schools, homeschooling involves a de facto sacrifice of many, many thousands of pounds a year in forgone potential earnings. Tutoring in a given key subject, usually English, maths or science, will amount to the order of £500 over a school year. In terms of long-term leveraging for getting good GCSE grades -> good A level grades -> good university -> good degree -> good (higher-paying) job, that's an absolute bargain.

Are you in a posher part of London? Where in the country is that the standard? My rates are £15-25 p.h. depending on year/level, and I certainly don't feel like I'm bottom-feeding. Not long ago a couple of Y13 students walked away when they found they were wrong to think I'd tutor them at the same rate as primary school pupils. Just lol.

You are assuming that the next 30 years job market will be the same as the last 50. The jobs ladder is broken, mate. Unless my kids are super smart, there is no way I am paying to put them through Uni to get a 2:2 or 2:1 that will still see them working at Maccas.

[Qetesuesi]

You are assuming that the next 30 years job market will be the same as the last 50. The jobs ladder is broken, mate. Unless my kids are super smart, there is no way I am paying to put them through Uni to get a 2:2 or 2:1 that will still see them working at Maccas.

I was simplifying to stop the post getting too long. I know well enough that tuition is applied to students of the entire range of abilities, not just those going on to take job-friendly degrees. For some it will be the difference between getting or missing a C at GCSE, which is a sine qua non for almost all jobs, Maccas or otherwise. As for changes to the jobs market, nobody on this forum is more aware than I about how automation is going to turn things right upside-down. Following your logic implies that all tuition (even most education!) is a waste of time from a monetary returns point of view - which in turn makes it all the more astonishing, doesn't it, that some people will apparently pay over £50 an hour for it!!

As a matter of interest, how old are your kids and what sort of plans do you have for them if it's not Uni?

[Guest eight]

Lessons or supervised prep?

Or buggery?

[Guest eight]

EDIT: So we're going to lose the word p-r-i-c-k now are we. What about tool? Or todger? etc etc

Or buggery?