TheCountOfNowhere Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Have a look at the public opinion on this ramping article: http://news.sky.com/story/1240123/property-shortages-push-prices-to-six-year-high Sibley lives !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Well, quite - and it would be irrelevant if the banks were prevented from making the loans in the first place. Why is it some of us can refuse to take on some of this debt? The banks aren't dragging people in to borrow it. Whereas this suggestion other people have no choice but to take on max-out on debt to meet very high/higher house prices? Fear? Fear of what? Fear of higher price still forever and ever. Oh I've just get quarter-million-pound - half-million pound + mortgage then. Greed, entitlement and ignorance from many buyers, paying prices in . Probably that also including a GP nearby to me, who has just met asking price of £500,000 giving some quick first-time-flippers a substantial profit. They bought it run-down condition, but paid lot more than I would ever do, smartened it up... and fearful innocent young GP buyer pays £500,000 asking price. Buyers make their own decisions. We've already had some concern from the VI-high-house-prices that the flow of such buyers may be slowing down a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 you doth complain too much. Well, what are the good options? Renting is the best of a bad bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Why is it some of us can refuse to take on some of this debt? The banks aren't dragging people in to borrow it. Do you deny the intense media ramping we've had for 18 months ? Do you think there is a reason why large american corporations spend the same money as a small African's state's GDP advertising ? The housing market has nothing to do with houses any more...it's all about trapping people into debt for the sake of the banks ( balance sheets, profits and bonuses ) and generating taxation. You'll probably pay an extra 2 or 3 years income tax now just buy moving house 2 or 3 times in your life. **** that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Well, what are the good options? Renting is the best of a bad bunch. yeah, renting is total crap, 6 months contracts, terrible murdering landlords, unfit housing, terrible. Human rights violations abound. Then again, people rent their cars, their TVs, suits, just about anything that can be bought can also be rented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Why is it some of us can refuse to take on some of this debt? The banks aren't dragging people in to borrow it. Whereas this suggestion other people have no choice but to take on max-out on debt to meet very high/higher house prices? Fear? Fear of what? Fear of higher price still forever and ever. Oh I've just get quarter-million-pound - half-million pound + mortgage then. The bold bit... (and, no, I don't think they're right, but given the last decade and a half, I can see why they might think so) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 yeah, renting is total crap, 6 months contracts, terrible murdering landlords, unfit housing, terrible. Human rights violations abound. Then again, people rent their cars, their TVs, suits, just about anything that can be bought can also be rented. Yeah, but the potential for distress if you're thrown out of any of those on the whim of the owner is pretty low (well, perhaps the car...) There have been enough turncoats on this forum - sensible people largely - who have bought. Are they all idiots? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 And did what? Just carried on renting at unaffordable rates on 6 month tenancies? Better that, than get into stupid levels of debt, overpaying for houses. To me at least. If you buyers want to borrow pay for high priced houses, let them pay. They make their own decisions. It's just too often here at HPC, you have people worrying about them. Giving them excuses... for years and years.. even now when prices reflated beyond peak. All too often buyers full of pride at their wise decisions. They're nothing to me. Buyers are the only ones keeping house prices high and going higher. They don't have to take on jumbo mortgages. They have choices, as renters do. Are non-owners supposed to continue to show sympathy as buyers keep on paying high/higher prices? Do you deny the intense media ramping we've had for 18 months ? Do you think there is a reason why large american corporations spend the same money as a small African's state's GDP advertising ? Advertising works. So what? Banks are trying to sell money, for they make a profit on doing so. Boss of a major credit-card said he never had one himself, for he doesn't do debt. It's not rocket science to know large debts are, and market values can fall as well as rise. Just shift it all on to non-onwers. We'll pay for other people's ignorance forever. Other people wanting to live housing dream, buying at stupid high prices... rushing to borrow quarter million pounds + because some advert showed a happy smiling buying couple, and renting is dead money. Freaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 That matters not to me. A clear message needs to be sent. The main parties will soon change tact. They want to get in to power so they can serve their masters ( not us ). Yeah. Last time I did that the Tories got in. You can see why I'm cautious! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Yeah, but the potential for distress if you're thrown out of any of those on the whim of the owner is pretty low (well, perhaps the car...) There have been enough turncoats on this forum - sensible people largely - who have bought. Are they all idiots? Probably not, they got deals that suited them. There';s plenty of liars, spiv and ner do wells causing mischeif on there too, Dont believe everything you read on a public forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Goggles Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 you doth complain too much. Actually, personally I'm not really representative - I'm a high-end renter. Which probably makes me even more of a F***ing idiot than anyone else ;p I've put too much faith in governments and too much faith in markets in the past. Now we've run out of ideas and corruption and vested-interest rule in both, we're in a bad place. But I am genuinely optimistic that a new generation will change things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Yeah, but the potential for distress if you're thrown out of any of those on the whim of the owner is pretty low (well, perhaps the car...) There have been enough turncoats on this forum - sensible people largely - who have bought. Are they all idiots? Im sorry, but when did I say buying was bad? And in normal times, people who cant pay the mortgage are just as likely to be turned out as a renter. What I was saying was that FEAR is the driver of choice by the VI, and renting is a very viable alternative....to say NO THANKYOU. The power is and always was with the buyer...clever FEAR and easy returns are the sales pitch of choice...ignoring that trees do not grow to the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swissy_fit Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Public opinion is irrelevant then? I'm not sure that it is, unless you reckon it is just pure coincidence that the largest voting bloc (boomers), just happen to have benefited from government policy more than the one of the smallest voting blocs (the young) consistently over the past 20 years. Also, "That poll is dodgy cos it doesn't match what I already believe to be true" is a response that politicians would love, it reinforces the idea that evidence is less important than received wisdom. The oxygen from which ideologies thrive. Your criticism of my remark about the poll is fair but didn't I see somewhere that Shelter were involved in it? Polls can be manipulated. Vested interests aren't all on one side, if the Daily Express or the BBC come out with a poll that says this I will really sit up and take notice. Public opinion is of course relevant to some extent but IMO the boomers have profited from the policies by coincidence, their interests happen to have coincided with those of the banks. Should that change, boomers suddenly won't do so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Yeah, but the potential for distress if you're thrown out of any of those on the whim of the owner is pretty low (well, perhaps the car...) There have been enough turncoats on this forum - sensible people largely - who have bought. Are they all idiots? They've all made their own decisions. Let this market draw in the greater fools, and those worn out with waiting. My only fear is that VIs will find a new scheme to protect home-owners and values... on top of £half-trillion or more QE, 0.5% base rates, FLS, HTBs. I've made my decision and will wait. Yet don't expect me to give any sympathy to buyers, who are happy with decisions they've made, if they've met high asking prices. If your buyers are so happy, and owners are so happy, why is there so much focus on buyers at the margin being the special ones.... excuse after excuse people have on hpc "had no choice because renting is a chore"? (Get ready to save them, in other words... more stimulus). Before a market can top, everyone who could conceivably be drawn in must have already become a buyer. And debt levels supporting the asset prices must be many times higher than any that could conceivably be serviced out of the cash flow yielded by the investments themselves.Then comes the bust. Just as everyone has come to count on the idea that lofty asset valuations are permanent, there is a crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Im sorry, but when did I say buying was bad? And in normal times, people who cant pay the mortgage are just as likely to be turned out as a renter. What I was saying was that FEAR is the driver of choice by the VI, and renting is a very viable alternative....to say NO THANKYOU. The power is and always was with the buyer...clever FEAR and easy returns are the sales pitch of choice...ignoring that trees do not grow to the sky. Fair enough. That said, the power may be with the buyers in aggregate, but all the individual buyer can do is decide on his own account, step away from the edge, and let some other numpty take his place. I'd rather see banks prevented from making these ridiculous loans in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Goggles Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 yeah, renting is total crap, 6 months contracts, terrible murdering landlords, unfit housing, terrible. Human rights violations abound. Then again, people rent their cars, their TVs, suits, just about anything that can be bought can also be rented. There are rules in place to make sure that cars are road-worthy. If you break them the penalties are quite harsh - enough to stop you from driving. Perhaps the same principles should be applied to LLs. (We're back to government policy again). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Goggles Posted April 10, 2014 Author Share Posted April 10, 2014 (edited) Your criticism of my remark about the poll is fair but didn't I see somewhere that Shelter were involved in it? Polls can be manipulated. Vested interests aren't all on one side, if the Daily Express or the BBC come out with a poll that says this I will really sit up and take notice. Public opinion is of course relevant to some extent but IMO the boomers have profited from the policies by coincidence, their interests happen to have coincided with those of the banks. Should that change, boomers suddenly won't do so well. It's Shelter and KPMG - global consultancy to the corporate giants, which is why I think it is relevant. Honestly, a survey by the Daily Express, or even the BBC won't be taken seriously by anyone in a position to influence policy, but a shift in their tone may, and the fact that the Daily Mail is now framing HPI as a bad(ish) thing, probably reflects the mood of the poll, they represent the same thing, a shift in public opinion. This matters because Osborne has deliberately and seemingly successfully stoked a housing boom in the run up to the 2015 election. Reports like this represent a problem. Just what if a massive house price boom isn't the electoral panacea he thought it was. Edit (again) Bloody autocorrect. Edited April 10, 2014 by Bear Goggles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 They've all made their own decisions. Let this market draw in the greater fools, and those worn out with waiting. My only fear is that VIs will find a new scheme to protect home-owners and values... on top of £half-trillion or more QE, 0.5% base rates, FLS, HTBs. I've made my decision and will wait. Yet don't expect me to give any sympathy to buyers, who are happy with decisions they've made, if they've met high asking prices. If your buyers are so happy, and owners are so happy, why is there so much focus on buyers at the margin being the special ones.... excuse after excuse people have on hpc "had no choice because renting is a chore"? (Get ready to save them, in other words... more stimulus). Some form of debt jubilee is the only hope the VIs have got left now. The repercussions of that are hard to quantify. The banks would take a massive hit again, could the Treasury make good the hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunobald Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I still find it strange that young people looking to buy are not more critcal about high prices. Everyone seems to acknowledge that prices are high and they can only afford a tiny little one bed if anything at all, but its rare that someone will every complain about the uk housing system as a whole and the fact that a basic need like housing has been inflated out of reach for many. Also the goverment appear to be doing everything they can to keep prices up, but why do we never see anyone on question time for example ever challenge statements that imply high house prices are a good thing, everyone just nods and agrees. As the years pass on by, more and more people like myself who are looking to buy are going to be queing up for our first house/flat. Thats more pressure on the market but its also a growing population of people who are dissatisfied with the way the goverment are dealing with the problem. I would say though that nowadays you can get away with saying you are hoping for house price falls, and now some people actually agree rather than looking at you like your cheering on somebody who is about to jump off the top of a building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I still find it strange that young people looking to buy are not more critcal about high prices. Everyone seems to acknowledge that prices are high and they can only afford a tiny little one bed if anything at all, but its rare that someone will every complain about the uk housing system as a whole and the fact that a basic need like housing has been inflated out of reach for many. Also the goverment appear to be doing everything they can to keep prices up, but why do we never see anyone on question time for example ever challenge statements that imply high house prices are a good thing, everyone just nods and agrees. As the years pass on by, more and more people like myself who are looking to buy are going to be queing up for our first house/flat. Thats more pressure on the market but its also a growing population of people who are dissatisfied with the way the goverment are dealing with the problem. I would say though that nowadays you can get away with saying you are hoping for house price falls, and now some people actually agree rather than looking at you like your cheering on somebody who is about to jump off the top of a building. But once you are 'on the ladder' you've got your guaranteed winning lottery ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunobald Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 But once you are 'on the ladder' you've got your guaranteed winning lottery ticket You know part of the problem is I genuinely do not know if you are joking or not and nethier would most of the UK public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 You know part of the problem is I genuinely do not know if you are joking or not and nethier would most of the UK public. But it is the mentality of the masses. Prices only go up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunobald Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Can you see a situation in which the goverment would be forced to let prices drop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venger Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 You know part of the problem is I genuinely do not know if you are joking or not and nethier would most of the UK public. Agreed. Just a few days ago, re V-Cable: > The Lib Dem minister hit back at comments by Kris Hopkins, the Conservative Housing Minister, who told the BBC’s Newsnight programme that rising house prices are a good thing. < And young people not complaining... it's frustrating. Many of them expecting similar HPI as a good thing. What are they teaching people in education? They're my competition. 25 years olds in buying £250K+ houses, claiming renting is dead money. At least when they buy newbuilds they're taking themselves out of the bidding, for the most part, when more second-market houses come up for sale. Perhaps too many are also VI with an eye on valuable property-inheritance from parents/family. Maybe a point will be reached where younger people "just say no" but the VI won't give up on HPI even then. Perhaps they'll leave UK. Where opportunity is cut off in one direction, people will move in another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gf3 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Buyers are the only ones keeping house prices high and going higher. No they aren't the only ones. People that rent are taking bet that house prices will fall. BTL LL are taking a bet house prices will rise. In general both first time buyers and renters pay mortgages how ever in the case of the FTB if HPC he takes a loss and in HPI he make a profit. The renter on the other hand doesn't make a loss with HPC and stands to make a profit but loses if hpi Renters are just shorting the market but still pay a mortgage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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