pilchardthecat Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 A better scheme IMHO: use smartcards. Insurer issues a smartcard to insured driver. Driver uses smartcard + PIN to fill up. Filling up without a smartcard is allowed, but subject to an insurance charge set and administered by the insurance industry, so it'll be set for the most dangerous drivers leaving pretty-much everyone better-off with regular insurance and the smartcard. Refinements on the scheme: smartcard piggybacks on regular credit or debit cards, so you don't have more crap to carry around. If it's tied to a driver and not the car it won't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 A better scheme IMHO: use smartcards. Insurer issues a smartcard to insured driver. Driver uses smartcard + PIN to fill up. Filling up without a smartcard is allowed, but subject to an insurance charge set and administered by the insurance industry, so it'll be set for the most dangerous drivers leaving pretty-much everyone better-off with regular insurance and the smartcard. Refinements on the scheme: smartcard piggybacks on regular credit or debit cards, so you don't have more crap to carry around. Tough luck for foreign drivers then, as well as being a rather intrusive idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diver Dan Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Watch out for a mysterious increase in RHD cars with continental plates. And lengths of hose-pipe for siphoning too. What they should do is get JK Rowling to put a Hogwarts-style sorting-hat in every petrol station and if it places you in Slytherin, you aren't allowed any fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywel Dda Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Our freedom is being and has been totally eroded and all people can talk about is the mechanics/efficiency of the method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepista Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Our freedom is being and has been totally eroded and all people can talk about is the mechanics/efficiency of the method. Have you actually read the thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@contradevian Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'm all for cutting down on uninsured drivers but there are so many ways round this. For example my car will run on biodiesel so I often fill up at an old mill which produces the stuff, and is not a conventional filling station. Will they be forced to install CCTV camera's? Also anyone can check online to see if a car is insured. So were I wishing to flout the law, I'd find a similar Citroen C5 (there are quite a few round where I live) that was insured and get a spare pair of plates made up. Yes I know they have clamped down on getting registration plates, but I guess that can be got round too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChumpusRex Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'm all for cutting down on uninsured drivers but there are so many ways round this. For example my car will run on biodiesel so I often fill up at an old mill which produces the stuff, and is not a conventional filling station. Will they be forced to install CCTV camera's? This isn't intended to be foolproof as, indeed, it can't if it has to support foreign drivers, car traders, etc. What it is intended to do is make uninsured/untaxed driving as inconvenient as possible (e.g. Only being able to fill up 1 can at a time, or from the small-scale biodeisel supplier in the next town) - or only possible after wilful commission of other crimes (e.g. False plates). This cuts down on the number of people who possibly could afford insurance/tax but don't pay because not paying has no consequences for them, and increases the stakes for those who have no intention of paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 If it will also stop the scrotes coming in with a petrol can to fill up their illegal little b*starding motorbike things then I'm all for it. Using police time watching roadside traffic to stop uninsured cars is silly when there's a much more effective way of doing it. Almost all cars need petrol so stop them getting petrol and you instantly remove them from the road. If you think that the country is being blanketed with CCTV and number plate/face recognition systems to stop petty crime, then I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ayatollah Buggeri Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Also anyone can check online to see if a car is insured. So were I wishing to flout the law, I'd find a similar Citroen C5 (there are quite a few round where I live) that was insured and get a spare pair of plates made up. Yes I know they have clamped down on getting registration plates, but I guess that can be got round too. That practice (cloning plates to evade ANPR cameras) is already widespread among petty criminals. Foreign drivers are going to be in for a shock as well! This is going to be really handy for motor dealers who are insured to drive any car. Plus everyone whose policy covers them to drive other cars on a third party only basis. That is why the staff will have to have the ability to override the system, hence the petrol retailers' spokesman expressing concern that the idea risks turning petrol station staff into law enforcement officers. I can see this ending up like underage sales of fags: the checkout people will sit behind a barricaded counter (they already do at the cheapish station I fill up in on my commute, which is in a not very nice part of Leeds) and simply refuse to press the button if in any doubt. As others have pointed out, criminals will find a way round it, but legitimate motorists who are not driving a car registered and insured in their own name will suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spot Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Yup. Stupid idea. A scrote who's prepared to drive around uninsured will simply start drilling holes in peoples fuel tanks to get a refill, or some other equally obnoxious way... There are just soooo many ways to get around this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywel Dda Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 This is next....... Behavior based monitoring systems- "The use of non-intrusive load monitoring to detect drunk driving and other risky behaviors has been proposed.[31] A US patent application combining this technology with a usage based insurance product to create a new type of behavior based auto insurance product" -Wiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Not sure as to the validly of this story, Its bull****. Its illegal and impractical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 There are no uninsured cars, only uninsured people. I'm insured to drive any car in the country (with the permission of the owner) so I should be allowed to fill up any car in the country. I trust the system will be able to cope with this... :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I can see you starting a profitable business based on this. I always thought he sounded like someone who'd fill 'er up for money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R K Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 * Increases black market in fuel - local 'fuel mule' * Increases incidence of holes drilled in everyone else's fuel tanks I thought the Tories promised to roll back the CCTV state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AThirdWay Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 There are no uninsured cars, only uninsured people. I'm insured to drive any car in the country (with the permission of the owner) so I should be allowed to fill up any car in the country. I trust the system will be able to cope with this... :angry: Your not insured to drive a car that isn't already covered by a specific policy. A commonly held mis-conception I'm afraid, one I used to believe was correct myself. In fact, if the registered keeper of a vehicle does not have a valid insurance policy for it, they have to fill out a SORN now I think. Waiting to proved wrong on that last bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Allegro Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Our freedom is being and has been totally eroded and all people can talk about is the mechanics/efficiency of the method. I think people are getting confused between doing things by right, and doing things by licence. For example, if you walk or cycle (I think horse riding may be included also) on the Queen's Highway other than on motorways you are doing so by right. If you drive, you are doing so by licence; it is not some inalienable right that goes back to Magna Carta. Motor vehicle driving has always been constrained by regulation even in more libertarian countries like the USA. I don't have a problem with the state automatically checking which vehicles are insured. I do have a problem with this being extended into other areas. I believe CCTV cameras in homes will become the norm eventually, but it will be done gradually - at first it will be 'problem' families or people on probation etc, then gradually extended to cover everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timak Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Simply put the cost of third party insurance on the cost of fuel on the cost of fuel. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Actually there's definitely a business in starting a car insurance company where the insured pays the first 99% of each claim; basically a legal way of not being insured. Young people could use it to drive legally and build up a no claims discount until they could afford proper insurance. www.weinsureanycar.com Actually, I've just checked that website availability. webuyanycar.com have already taken it! weinsureanybody.com seems to be available... Who's in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Simply put the cost of third party insurance on the cost of fuel on the cost of fuel. Job done. I'm sorry, how do Tory fat cats make any money out of that? It's a non-starter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Your not insured to drive a car that isn't already covered by a specific policy. A commonly held mis-conception I'm afraid, one I used to believe was correct myself. In fact, if the registered keeper of a vehicle does not have a valid insurance policy for it, they have to fill out a SORN now I think. Waiting to proved wrong on that last bit! You are quite right. My car's insurance ran out, as I was not planning to use it much I left it on the drive. The car had a valid tax disc, but still the DVLA sent a letter telling me to declare it SORN or insure it. I cannot fathom what the problem was- it was kept on private property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Bear Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Your not insured to drive a car that isn't already covered by a specific policy. A commonly held mis-conception I'm afraid, one I used to believe was correct myself. In fact, if the registered keeper of a vehicle does not have a valid insurance policy for it, they have to fill out a SORN now I think. Waiting to proved wrong on that last bit! Your right about the first part of your statement and if the SORN part is not correct at this moment it will be imminently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 You are quite right. My car's insurance ran out, as I was not planning to use it much I left it on the drive. The car had a valid tax disc, but still the DVLA sent a letter telling me to declare it SORN or insure it. I cannot fathom what the problem was- it was kept on private property. The legislation changed, it's causing a huge problem for people with classic cars (etc) who only want to use it for show days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Actually there's definitely a business in starting a car insurance company where the insured pays the first 99% of each claim; basically a legal way of not being insured. Young people could use it to drive legally and build up a no claims discount until they could afford proper insurance. Given that the potential insurance liability extends to much more than the cost of repairing/replacing your own car, that's a total non-starter. Insurance isn't mandatory to financially protect the driver, it's there to protect other road users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Given that the potential insurance liability extends to much more than the cost of repairing/replacing your own car, that's a total non-starter. Insurance isn't mandatory to financially protect the driver, it's there to protect other road users. Er, read the post! 99% of the cost of the claim is to be met by the insured; that's their excess. (The remaining 1% will be farmed out on the reinsurance market.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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