UK insolvencies at highest level since financial crisis

[Saving For a Space Ship]

 UK insolvencies at highest level since financial crisis

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jan/26/uk-insolvencies-at-highest-level-since-2008-financial-crisis

Personal insolvencies rise for the second year running

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42831525

surging insolvencies cast dark shadow  

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/brexit-britain-grew-faster-than-expected-in-fourth-quarter-but-surging-insolvencies-cast-dark-shadow-a8179356.html

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Saving For a Space Ship

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Bullsit...the UK is booming...we're all rich...

[bear.getting.old]

I'm glad that news was in other places than just the Guardian

[macca13]

They are all IVA’s though, so only pay a small percentage of the debt owed.. who does this effect most? If they get to keep their house.. will the banks/credit/loan company’s still make good from years of interest already paid? 

If they lose their jobs, take a lesser paid job the IVA gets a hair cut and they still get too keep their house.. not sure it’s 100% going to help us with our sensible saving heads on.. 

although I do appreciate the economy is going to hell.. but will the Tories do what they do best.. sell/cut public services and prop up house prices.. god I hate them! 

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by macca13

[Greg Bowman]

4 hours ago, macca13 said:

They are all IVA’s though, so only pay a small percentage of the debt owed.. who does this effect most? If they get to keep their house.. will the banks/credit/loan company’s still make good from years of interest already paid? 

If they lose their jobs, take a lesser paid job the IVA gets a hair cut and they still get too keep their house.. not sure it’s 100% going to help us with our sensible saving heads on.. 

although I do appreciate the economy is going to hell.. but will the Tories do what they do best.. sell/cut public services and prop up house prices.. god I hate them! 

 

Quote

 

The two types of insolvency tell a different story. Company insolvencies rise as companies expand on the way up after flat or negative performance - the classic over trade. In a weird way positive - so mis reported by someone who has never seen it or lazy reporting 

Personal insolvencies are probably the real story here, seems pretty structural  and will only get worse and supports the jobless recovery ( or continued growth meme), AI, restructuring in retail etc.

[stormymonday_2011]

3 hours ago, Greg Bowman said:

The two types of insolvency tell a different story. Company insolvencies rise as companies expand on the way up after flat or negative performance - the classic over trade. In a weird way positive - so mis reported by someone who has never seen it or lazy reporting 

Personal insolvencies are probably the real story here, seems pretty structural  and will only get worse and supports the jobless recovery ( or continued growth meme), AI, restructuring in retail etc.

Absolutely correct about business.

Counter intuitively insolvencies in business peak at the end of recessions.

They are a lagging indicator like unemployment.

In addition most company insolvencies tend to be in the first three months of the calendar for various accounting reasons 

Personal debt is quite another matter.

 

[CommyTooper]

So...things are rhyming much the same as ten years ago. What’s the fuss, when have individuals and businesses never been going bankrupt.

If the reports were reporting three, five, ten times the number going under, then you have a story. Nothing to see here......

[jiltedjen]

I knew a girl, very low paid not that bright.

never ever going to afford a house. one day she took out a £10,000 loan, then bought a laptop, TV, food shopping, clothes etc. Stuff she could never really afford while paying rent in a house share (low quality life without the modern ‘basics’)

she only made a few payments (probably from the loan money itself) 

then basically said she couldn’t afford it. 

they make her pay back £5 a week due to her limited means. But she got to keep all ‘her’ stuff. 

So will be around 60 years to pay off, but she can afford £5 a week, and her stuff would last maybe 15 years. and she could probably take out another £10,000 loan by then anyway. 

[winkie]

31 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

I knew a girl, very low paid not that bright.

never ever going to afford a house. one day she took out a £10,000 loan, then bought a laptop, TV, food shopping, clothes etc. Stuff she could never really afford while paying rent in a house share (low quality life without the modern ‘basics’)

she only made a few payments (probably from the loan money itself) 

then basically said she couldn’t afford it. 

they make her pay back £5 a week due to her limited means. But she got to keep all ‘her’ stuff. 

So will be around 60 years to pay off, but she can afford £5 a week, and her stuff would last maybe 15 years. and she could probably take out another £10,000 loan by then anyway. 

Sussed it.......moneys prime purpose is to spend and service not repay.

[Toast]

43 minutes ago, jiltedjen said:

not that bright.

Apparently not.

[stop_the_craziness]

I can do better than that.  I have a friend who has tens of thousands of pounds in about six unsecured loans who is paying back ONE POUND PER MONTH on each of them.  Yep, somewhere in the region of £70 to £80 a YEAR to service over £80,000 of debt.  Mentally she's been to hell and back to get those arrangements in place, but my word from a financial perspective it's the bloody deal of the century.

[jiltedjen]

They never stopped lending like crazy people.

Last night sitting down for a nice meal, overhearing the convocation of the couple next to us, bloke was chatting to his date/GF/Partner

"yeah i got my car on finance, they say i need to shell out £6,000 or hand it back, which seems a bit silly, i have all-ready paid for it, like i worked out i would of paid like £21,000 in the end, its a bit silly, but the car has a tiny engine so its worth it in the money it saves"

i was sitting there thinking, what the hell does he drive to be so economical that it makes sense that it can save twenty thousand pounds worth of fuel to justify the cost? is his commute to the moon and back?

of course it doesn't, and it didn't seem like the bloke had the £6,000 to avoid handing it back of course. 
But sadly i know of countless of my friends (early to late 20's) who have splashed out massive amounts for brand spanking new cars on finance, i sat down and had a think about how many, and actually it was something like 80%, and Cornwall is a poor part of the country. 

i am of the conclusion that all these loans will start to go bad very shortly, lenders are basically lending and projecting unrealistic profits, you cant get blood out of a stone for very long. 

All these loans will start going bad soon enough, but its so systemic that again its the currency falls and 'hidden' bailouts which will mask the carnage. 

It's all so mental, the key is to just be diversified i guess. Not to take part in the consumerism.    

I think for many a 'good deal' is any deal which means they can drive around in a brand new 1.0 car with some toys, white paint, which they can pay monthly, as the day will never come for the balloon payment, as the future never actually comes. 

Edited January 28, 2018 by jiltedjen

[Guest]

18 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

They never stopped lending like crazy people.

Last night sitting down for a nice meal, overhearing the convocation of the couple next to us, bloke was chatting to his date/GF/Partner

"yeah i got my car on finance, they say i need to shell out £6,000 or hand it back, which seems a bit silly, i have all-ready paid for it, like i worked out i would of paid like £21,000 in the end, its a bit silly, but the car has a tiny engine so its worth it in the money it saves"

i was sitting there thinking, what the hell does he drive to be so economical that it makes sense that it can save twenty thousand pounds worth of fuel to justify the cost? is his commute to the moon and back?

of course it doesn't, and it didn't seem like the bloke had the £6,000 to avoid handing it back of course. 
But sadly i know of countless of my friends (early to late 20's) who have splashed out massive amounts for brand spanking new cars on finance, i sat down and had a think about how many, and actually it was something like 80%, and Cornwall is a poor part of the country. 

i am of the conclusion that all these loans will start to go bad very shortly, lenders are basically lending and projecting unrealistic profits, you cant get blood out of a stone for very long. 

All these loans will start going bad soon enough, but its so systemic that again its the currency falls and 'hidden' bailouts which will mask the carnage. 

It's all so mental, the key is to just be diversified i guess. Not to take part in the consumerism.    

I think for many a 'good deal' is any deal which means they can drive around in a brand new 1.0 car with some toys, white paint, which they can pay monthly, as the day will never come for the balloon payment, as the future never actually comes. 

People with PCPs can walk away once they've paid 50% of the amount due. Takes a couple of well drafted letters to the finance company, but can be done. I reckon we'll hear about this more and more.

[stop_the_craziness]

2 hours ago, Grab_Some_Popcorn said:

People with PCPs can walk away once they've paid 50% of the amount due. Takes a couple of well drafted letters to the finance company, but can be done. I reckon we'll hear about this more and more.

It will then come to pass that they can claim back compensation for the money they DID pay through being "mis sold" the PCP deal.  Probably

[thewig]

All these DEBTjunkies will need to be looked after as they’re the ones who have chewed up the programming real good and followed it to the letter. They are literally doing what every good pleb is supposed to be doing, become the biggest DEBTslave possible to their masters. 

It’s missing the point imo whether a few of them don’t end up paying off the DEBT as the money is made up anyway so the values are almost irrelevant even if no one paid off “what they owe” most of them will have paid off more than “what it’s really worth”.

for instance borrowing twenty grand or whatever for a one litre Ford Fiesta then paying back ten grand doesn’t mean you’ve won at life by ten grand, it means you’ve been convinced that a Ford Fiesta is worth more than ten grand thanks to the magick of DEBTmoney. I remember when Ford fiestas were worth a couple of hundred quid or whatever etc.

now they’re worth whatever figure the DEBTpusher plucks out of the air then applies a monthly payment to infinity against. Pick a number it’s all made up anyway.

 

hats off to the “stupid” people who don’t understand DEBTmoney who have accessed 80k of it for free. Maybe they understand the absurdity of it perfectly well on some level and have followed through on the experiment and are the only real winners 

 

if if we all did the same the DEBTmoney system would presumably collapse but the real mugs are those of us who still think those numbers mean anything 

 

[honkydonkey]

23 hours ago, stop_the_craziness said:

I can do better than that.  I have a friend who has tens of thousands of pounds in about six unsecured loans who is paying back ONE POUND PER MONTH on each of them.  Yep, somewhere in the region of £70 to £80 a YEAR to service over £80,000 of debt.  Mentally she's been to hell and back to get those arrangements in place, but my word from a financial perspective it's the bloody deal of the century.

I can beat that even. I had a friend take out tens of thousands on credit cards and spent them on bitcoins. Once his coins became worth a fortune he phoned them up and told them either cut him a deal or he'll go bankrupt and they'll get nothing, they massively reduced the amount, which he could easily afford and basically made a fortune from their money. Good on him I say.

He told me he kept hitting that button on the website that says, 'do you need an increase in your credit' and they kept giving it to him. He didn't have a job at the time either lol.

Edited January 29, 2018 by honkydonkey

[dougless]

29 minutes ago, thewig said:

if if we all did the same the DEBTmoney system would presumably collapse but the real mugs are those of us who still think those numbers mean anything

Since 2008 I have been feeling a bigger mug as each year passes......I hate to say it but I have to agree with your summary.  We live in a Society where to be prudent is the new STUPID.

[Errol]

Otherwise known as an idiocracy.

[Locke]

On 1/28/2018 at 7:48 AM, jiltedjen said:

So will be around 60 years to pay off, but she can afford £5 a week, and her stuff would last maybe 15 years. and she could probably take out another £10,000 loan by then anyway. 

 

On 1/28/2018 at 9:46 AM, stop_the_craziness said:

somewhere in the region of £70 to £80 a YEAR to service over £80,000 of debt.

 

On 1/28/2018 at 10:48 AM, jiltedjen said:

"yeah i got my car on finance, they say i need to shell out £6,000 or hand it back, which seems a bit silly, i have all-ready paid for it, like i worked out i would of paid like £21,000 in the end, its a bit silly, but the car has a tiny engine so its worth it in the money it saves"

 

1 hour ago, honkydonkey said:

He told me he kept hitting that button on the website that says, 'do you need an increase in your credit' and they kept giving it to him. He didn't have a job at the time either lol.

So Think on this. Today, money is debt. The value of everything is predicated on the amount of money, which is to say the amount of debt.

It is obvious that a large fraction of that debt is secured on absolutely no productive value.

What happens when a large amount of money simply vanishes once these loans are forgiven, voluntarily or not?

[Errol]

Deflationary holocaust.