Is anyone else bored of North Korea already?

[anonguest]

1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

If something happens and North Korea deny it I'd be inclined to trust them on that at least. So much of their actions appear to be about very publically flexing muscles.

Shhhhh......with talk like that you'll get labelled as a TFH'er.  ;-)

[Bruce Banner]

V2 was short range ballistic missile, not ICBM.

SK is in range of battlefield tactical weapons, but not Guam, which is the big worry at the moment.

[anonguest]

8 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

V2 was short range ballistic missile, not ICBM.

SK is in range of battlefield tactical weapons, but not Guam, which is the big worry at the moment.

I know. I said it was a forerunner of todays ICBMs.

It does, curiously, lead to the question whether that very vertical trajectory used was even necessary for the range it was fired over?   Now that I think about it....surely much of the nergy was needlessly expended going so straight up?  They could have launched at a lower angle, like modern shorter range tactical rockets, and still reached London???  But thats taking the thread in a different trajectory......  :-D

[Bruce Banner]

18 minutes ago, anonguest said:

I know. I said it was a forerunner of todays ICBMs.

It does, curiously, lead to the question whether that very vertical trajectory used was even necessary for the range it was fired over?   Now that I think about it....surely much of the nergy was needlessly expended going so straight up?  They could have launched at a lower angle, like modern shorter range tactical rockets, and still reached London???  But thats taking the thread in a different trajectory......  :-D

The Germans had cruise missiles in WW2 (V1) but they were easy to shoot down, hence the V2 which came down almost vertically at high mach speeds. There was a plan to destroy V2s with AAA fire, but that's another story and was never implemented due to the successful raid on Peenemunde. 

[anonguest]

10 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

The Germans had cruise missiles in WW2 (V1) but they were easy to shoot down, hence the V2 which came down almost vertically at high mach speeds. There was a plan to destroy V2s with AAA fire, but that's another story and was never implemented due to the successful raid on Peenemunde. 

That was because of their relatively slow speed - which I believe was not much faster than, say, the Spitfires that shot them down.  But wasn't the V2, very quickly after launch, supersonic? or at least significantly faster that the V1's ?

[Bruce Banner]

1 hour ago, anonguest said:

That was because of their relatively slow speed - which I believe was not much faster than, say, the Spitfires that shot them down.  But wasn't the V2, very quickly after launch, supersonic? or at least significantly faster that the V1's ?

Yes, V1 about 400MPH, V2 2,000MPH+.

[Errol]

Germans were massively ahead of the other countries, which is why their rocket scientists all ended up working for the Americans and the Russians.

[Sledgehead]

5 hours ago, Errol said:

Germans were massively ahead of the other countries, which is why their rocket scientists all ended up working for the Americans and the Russians.

They were massively ahead like mercedes F1 are massively ahead. They just didn't realise the world had moved on. So they had the best tanks, uniforms and rockets.  Payload and cryptanalysis? Not so much.

[MarkG]

The V2's trajectory was not particularly vertical for wartime use. Wikipedia claims a typical trajectory was 55miles high to reach 128miles range, which would be a bit less than 45 degrees. Like modern rockets, it probably went up vertically for a time to get above the worst of the atmosphere, then tilted to gain horizontal velocity.

[ExiledMatty]

They should just do to Kim what they did to Osama. #navyseals

[Errol]

Do not drive N. Korea into corner, sanctions alone will not solve problem – Putin

Russian President Vladimir Putin believes that the North Korean nuclear crisis cannot be resolved by sanctions alone. He called on the international community not to drive Pyongyang into a corner.

"It is clear that it is impossible to solve the problems of the Korean peninsula by sanctions alone and pressure," Putin said at the economic forum in Vladivostok, following talks with South Korean President Moon Jae-In.

https://www.rt.com/news/402138-putin-forum-vladivostok-russia/

[Errol]

Russian & N. Korean delegations may meet at Eastern Economic Forum in Vladivostok - Lavrov

Russian and North Korean delegations “may meet” on the sidelines of the Eastern Economic Forum (EEF), which is underway in the Russian city of Vladivostok, Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Wednesday.

https://www.rt.com/news/402148-lavrov-russia-north-korea/

[anonguest]

As much as I try I just cannot imagine how devastating to our way of life, here, it would be if WE found ourselves without the internet.  But then again as the article alludes, they don't even know what it is - so it's a case of not missing what you never had.

I can't but help imagine them as being somewhat like the Eloi, in HG Well's 'The Time Machine', living a banal and almost pointless existence.

As discussed here previously the issue now then is that in principle we shouldn't have anything to fear from NK, and the odds of them posing an attack risk to us is exceedingly small?  The thing that clouds that is the more recent troubling behaviour of fatboy himself.  As the article alludes, eventually after some generations, the rulers go mad.

https://theintercept.com/2017/09/04/undercover-in-north-korea-all-paths-lead-to-catastrophe/

 

[Riedquat]

39 minutes ago, anonguest said:

As much as I try I just cannot imagine how devastating to our way of life, here, it would be if WE found ourselves without the internet.  But then again as the article alludes, they don't even know what it is - so it's a case of not missing what you never had.

Losing the internet would hardly be devastating. We all managed perfectly well without it not that long ago. There would be upheaveal in adjustment, nothing more. I rather suspect that people in North Korea are missing rather more than the internet even if it seems perfectly normal for them to not have much to eat.

[Errol]

45 minutes ago, anonguest said:

 living a banal and almost pointless existence.

To be fair, isn't this applicable to nearly everyone in the so-called modern world (and indeed to human existence itself)?

How does internet access prevent life from being banal and pointless? 

[anonguest]

6 minutes ago, Errol said:

To be fair, isn't this applicable to nearly everyone in the so-called modern world (and indeed to human existence itself)?

How does internet access prevent life from being banal and pointless? 

I didn't mean that the internet is essential to being able to live a life that isn't banal.  I mentioned the internet aspect as just one of the things missing that we take for granted. It was an aside.

What I meant was that, so the article insinuates, they live lives devoid of a lot of the taken for grated humanity we have and freedoms to enjoy all manner of simple pleasures. Anyone want to bet that if their society continues as is for the next 1000 years that it will produce anything of value or significance to global humanity? ie. great scientific inventions/discoveries, literature, art, etc

[dgul]

45 minutes ago, anonguest said:

I didn't mean that the internet is essential to being able to live a life that isn't banal.  I mentioned the internet aspect as just one of the things missing that we take for granted. It was an aside.

What I meant was that, so the article insinuates, they live lives devoid of a lot of the taken for grated humanity we have and freedoms to enjoy all manner of simple pleasures. Anyone want to bet that if their society continues as is for the next 1000 years that it will produce anything of value or significance to global humanity? ie. great scientific inventions/discoveries, literature, art, etc

Arguably, the folk in NK have an absolutely fulfilled life.

Their god exists on earth, and they can see how their every waking moment can be spent in praise of said god.  Their god speaks to them, encourages them, even shows them his wrath when he's angry.

I'd imagine life in NK would be fulfilling in the way that it was for middle ages Catholics, say.  Or, even better, the ancient Egyptians. 

[in that they had a close relationship with their gods, not in the way that they are hungry, etc]

In comparison, everyone in the west has a banal existence -- either devoid of religion (ie, life is about seeking pleasure, say), has a false religion (eg, science, esoteric-nonsense) or has a religion based on faith (which would seem a bit rubbish in comparison to actually having a god residing in the country).

What's more, they're brainwashed into thinking that they're the best in the world (re scientific inventions, art, gastronomy, etc), so they don't even have to worry about other people having a nicer time than they're having.

[When I hear of the lives people have in places like NK, I wonder about whether similar techniques are being used for us in the West.  Oh, we've got Facebook and everything, but are most people most of the time mostly happy/contented?  I'm not sure that they are.]

[eg, what % of the population in NK are on anti-depressants, compared with the USA?  Are the NK population actually depressed, or are they sort of at least happyish?]

 

[Errol]

I agree. There is definitely an argument to say that the citizens of NK are happier than their Western counterparts.

[Riedquat]

51 minutes ago, Errol said:

I agree. There is definitely an argument to say that the citizens of NK are happier than their Western counterparts.

Ignorance is bliss is certainly true up to a point. I've said it before but I don't really see much sense in ultimately wanting anything other than happiness, and for that you need firstly not to be worried about the basics of survival, and then good company and good surroundings. Those are the positives. The negatives are stress and restriction. A few luxuries helps but they're a game of diminishing returns, but have the most immediate short-term appeal.

[Will!]

6 hours ago, anonguest said:

The thing that clouds that is the more recent troubling behaviour of fatboy himself.  As the article alludes, eventually after some generations, the rulers go mad.

For a long time the Kim dynasty led a bizarre split existence:  They ruled with absolute power at home, but survived entirely at the convenience of the People's Republic of China.  They were living gods but could be replaced in a palace coup at any moment if they were no longer useful to the PRC.  Obtaining nuclear weapons allowed Kim Jong-il to change from pawn to partner of the PRC and I'm sure his son has learned from that lesson.  The question is whether Kim Jong-un believes his own mythology that he is the divine protector of all Korean people?

[voldemort]

5 hours ago, Errol said:

I agree. There is definitely an argument to say that the citizens of NK are happier than their Western counterparts.

The 1% of North Korea, maybe. Not the 100,000+ political prisoners (and their extended families) in its forced labour camps, or the millions that have starved.

http://freekorea.us/camps has some interesting details of the camps.

[oracle]

9 hours ago, anonguest said:

As much as I try I just cannot imagine how devastating to our way of life, here, it would be if WE found ourselves without the internet.  But then again as the article alludes, they don't even know what it is - so it's a case of not missing what you never had.

I can't but help imagine them as being somewhat like the Eloi, in HG Well's 'The Time Machine', living a banal and almost pointless existence.

 

 

well with celebrity love island,BGT,big bruv and all the other bread and circusses he wasn't that far off the mark...I would call being glued to that kind of TV a banal and pointless existence.

[geezer466]

On 9/5/2017 at 4:49 PM, Errol said:

Germans were massively ahead of the other countries, which is why their rocket scientists all ended up working for the Americans and the Russians.

Not so much in targeting in the V1 raids.

This relied on putting enough fuel on board to get it over London hoping it would then run out and plunge into the city.

 

Clearly they upped their game on the V2 version. 

[Sledgehead]

On 8/11/2017 at 4:40 PM, Sledgehead said:

.... The OP says he's 'bored'. It wouldn't surprise me if that is an average view. So move along. Nothing to see here.

It's like the clear blue sky, just before 9/11.

I'm not at all worried. And that concerns me.

As Bruce says, Trump may well wanna swat him. I might be wrong in some way here, but while Trump can't stop Obama-care or build a wall w/o approval, he can technically launch a nuclear strike. He's being pushed about by congress, just like an employee being bullied by his boss. We've already seen him vent his frustrations on Twitter. Fractious employees have been known to take it out on the wife. Fractious presidents would be looking further afield. And as a bonus, he could say he got something 'done'.

War with North Korea is a real possibility, think tank warns

And Jack Staw agreed.

The story may just start to get a little more 'interesting'.

[Bloo Loo]

2 hours ago, Sledgehead said:

War with North Korea is a real possibility, think tank warns

And Jack Staw agreed.

The story may just start to get a little more 'interesting'.

The war never ended.  We are in a state of ceasefire....</pedant>