Middle-class pensioners to lose benefits under Tory plan to fund social care

[Bruce Banner]

26 minutes ago, TulipsFromThreadneedle said:

No we're being robbed by Labour to pay for wealthy folks private care that their kids dont want to do.

 

Labour haven't robbed us since 2010, for the last seven years the robbing has been done by the Conservatives.

[CunningPlan]

The elephant in the room is that we have managed to fix so many physical health problems people are now outliving their brain life.

Yes, the old have worked and paid in all their lives - to a scheme where the deal was they would get a few years retirement and shuffle off in good time.

No one has paid in for 40 years pension entitlement and 5+ years of intensive health care.

Someone needed to face up to this and May had the best opportunity. Sadly, we will need to revert to short termism and 'hang the future' politics again.

[olliegog]

1 hour ago, Quicken said:

Certainly smells like a big fat U-Turn. From the beeb:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-2017-39979839

 

ah yes the BBC that beacon of impartial reporting run by the leftie liberals

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

4 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Labour haven't robbed us since 2010, for the last seven years the robbing has been done by the Conservatives.

Agreed, i should have said Labour are wanting to rob renters so asset owners kids can keep all their unearned loot.

Odds are coming in for Corbyn to be next Prime Minister.

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/prime-minister-after-general-election

Edited May 22, 2017 by TulipsFromThreadneedle

[iamnumerate]

4 minutes ago, CunningPlan said:

The elephant in the room is that we have managed to fix so many physical health problems people are now outliving their brain life.

Yes, the old have worked and paid in all their lives - to a scheme where the deal was they would get a few years retirement and shuffle off in good time.

No one has paid in for 40 years pension entitlement and 5+ years of intensive health care.

Someone needed to face up to this and May had the best opportunity. Sadly, we will need to revert to short termism and 'hang the future' politics again.

+1

[Bruce Banner]

3 minutes ago, TulipsFromThreadneedle said:

Agreed, i should have said Labour are wanting to rob renters so asset owners kids can keep all their unearned loot.

Odds are coming in for Corbyn to be next Prime Minister.

https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-uk-general-election/prime-minister-after-general-election

I hope that Corbyn gets in because things must get worse before they can get better. 

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

Just now, Bruce Banner said:

I hope that Corbyn gets in because things must get worse before they can get better. 

I thought that in 2010. Thing are much worse now and dont look like getting better.

Corbyn will destroy the economy of that we can be sure, far more than has been done already.

[Quicken]

9 minutes ago, olliegog said:

ah yes the BBC that beacon of impartial reporting run by the leftie liberals

Pick your source. How about the leftie liberal Telegraph :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/22/theresa-may-expected-announce-dementia-tax-u-turn/

Quote

Theresa May has announced a dramatic U-turn on the Conservative's controversial plans for social care dubbed by critics as a "dementia tax".

 

[olliegog]

  there are 850,000 people with dementia in the UK, with numbers set to rise to over 1 million by 2025. This will soar to 2 million by 2051. 225,000 will develop dementia this year, that's one every three minutes. 1 in 6 people over the age of 80 have dementia.

so it is not inevitable that all the 'olds' will need 20 years of 'dementia care' - most have a few declining years for which they require care

 I find it heartening that 5 out of 6 over 80 year olds do not have 'dementia'

I see nothing wrong with either proposal (turned or not) but the indebted 'young' snowflakes are obviously worried about their property financed inheritance to appreciate that someone has to pay (good old tax-payer again)

 

[Bruce Banner]

1 minute ago, TulipsFromThreadneedle said:

I thought that in 2010. Thing are much worse now and dont look like getting better.

Corbyn will destroy the economy of that we can be sure, far more than has been done already.

I voted for Cameron and was delighted when he got in but he proved himself to be the true heir to Blair. The Conservatives had every opportunity to turn the economy around, they even said "you can't base the economy on a housing bubble", but they chose the short term easy way out..... more HPI.

 

[iamnumerate]

6 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

I hope that Corbyn gets in because things must get worse before they can get better. 

Mmm not sure if that bad is a good idea.  Have you read about Venezuela - and Corbyn wants us to learn from them.

[iamnumerate]

Just now, Bruce Banner said:

I voted for Cameron and was delighted when he got in but he proved himself to be the true heir to Blair. The Conservatives had every opportunity to turn the economy around, they even said "you can't base the economy on a housing bubble", but they chose the short term easy way out..... more HPI.

 

I agree with you but I still think Corbyn could be kill rather than cure.

[TulipsFromThreadneedle]

Just now, Bruce Banner said:

I voted for Cameron and was delighted when he got in but he proved himself to be the true heir to Blair. The Conservatives had every opportunity to turn the economy around, they even said "you can't base the economy on a housing bubble", but they chose the short term easy way out..... more HPI.

 

I remember the quote well was perfect timing as my kid had just been born and they were going to press the reset button. My kids now 7 and hasnt had a settled home due to that pair of ####s.

As May is the first to go after boomers it does tell me she may have the balls to tackle HPI. Corbyn will tackle it by crashing the entire economy with his commie friends.

[Bruce Banner]

3 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

I agree with you but I still think Corbyn could be kill rather than cure.

Total chaos...... Vote of no confidence...... Farage..... Job jobbed....... 

[Realistbear]

UKIP appear to have picked up at least 1% since the U-turn.  May is not trusted by conservatives (small "c") and a huge majority would give her carte blanche for a Norwegian half-a** BREXIT settlement.  Just what Mutti would like.  

[iamnumerate]

3 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said:

Total chaos...... Vote of no confidence...... Farage..... Job jobbed....... 

Well I have put my name on a waiting list for an allotment in case Corbyn wins.  I will spending my holidays growing my own food.

[HovelinHove]

2 hours ago, olliegog said:

ah yes the BBC that beacon of impartial reporting run by the leftie liberals

They are horrendous...I go there for a glance at the headlines, then elsewhere very quickly as they wind me up too much. Anything by Kunsburg would give me an aneurysm.

Edited May 22, 2017 by HovelinHove

[reddog]

So that is the second major U-turn in about a month.  Absolutely unbelievable.  This is like going back to the Conservatives of the 1970s.  It is hardly surprising they turned to Margaret Thatcher.

[kzb]

The other thing that would help is to stop erstwhile employees being classed as self-employed.

All those delivery drivers, Uber et al.  Those people are employees, and it's been proved in court.

Get them classed as employees so their employers have to pay the employers' NI contribution.

[olliegog]

54 minutes ago, Quicken said:

Pick your source. How about the leftie liberal Telegraph :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/22/theresa-may-expected-announce-dementia-tax-u-turn/

 

the stat about 1 in 3 over 65s have dementia is blatently false as a bit of research comes up with the following - that said the Telegraph is not more trustworthy than any other newspaper.

Cannot believe the libdems have rushed to a petition about something that is not being debated in parliament, is suggested by a party which is not yet in power and as for crowdfunding to fight something that is not anywhere near the statute books - words fail me (which they have been doing a lot during this election campaign)

not to mention the 'snappy' naming of 'dementia tax' - brings to mind the re-labelling of a spare room subsidy to 'bedroom tax' !

 

The total population prevalence of dementia among over 65s is 7.1% (based on 2013 population data).

This equals one in every 79 (1.3%) of the entire UK population, and 1 in every 14 of the population aged 65 years and over.

Compared to the 2007 estimates, the current prevalence consensus found there are slightly more people with dementia in the youngest (65 to 69) and oldest (90+) age bands and slightly fewer in the intermediate age groups.

[thisisthisitmaybe]

34 minutes ago, kzb said:

The other thing that would help is to stop erstwhile employees being classed as self-employed.

All those delivery drivers, Uber et al.  Those people are employees, and it's been proved in court.

Get them classed as employees so their employers have to pay the employers' NI contribution.

I think the gig economy is on its last legs. The hypocrisy of Silicon Valley is worst than Wall St - at least the latter were happy to admit they were motivated by greed.

It could be an inflationary trend.

[thisisthisitmaybe]

32 minutes ago, olliegog said:

the stat about 1 in 3 over 65s have dementia is blatently false as a bit of research comes up with the following - that said the Telegraph is not more trustworthy than any other newspaper.

Cannot believe the libdems have rushed to a petition about something that is not being debated in parliament, is suggested by a party which is not yet in power and as for crowdfunding to fight something that is not anywhere near the statute books - words fail me (which they have been doing a lot during this election campaign)

not to mention the 'snappy' naming of 'dementia tax' - brings to mind the re-labelling of a spare room subsidy to 'bedroom tax' !

 

The total population prevalence of dementia among over 65s is 7.1% (based on 2013 population data).

This equals one in every 79 (1.3%) of the entire UK population, and 1 in every 14 of the population aged 65 years and over.

Compared to the 2007 estimates, the current prevalence consensus found there are slightly more people with dementia in the youngest (65 to 69) and oldest (90+) age bands and slightly fewer in the intermediate age groups.

Completely agree. Dementia is increasing as people are living older but it's hardly like every other person gets it in old age. I also think celebrity culture has been behind this, celebs like Fiona Philips making documentaries of their parents' dementia, partly through genuine feelings but also to keep themselves in the public eye. It is a horrible experience for all involved and hence is highly emotive.

The majority of us will end up dying of a natural terminal illness, but whilst being fully with it. We will spend a few weeks in hospital as the doctors sympathetically increase the drug drip-feed to send us off as painlessly as possible.

[kzb]

1 hour ago, olliegog said:

the stat about 1 in 3 over 65s have dementia is blatently false as a bit of research comes up with the following - that said the Telegraph is not more trustworthy than any other newspaper.

Cannot believe the libdems have rushed to a petition about something that is not being debated in parliament, is suggested by a party which is not yet in power and as for crowdfunding to fight something that is not anywhere near the statute books - words fail me (which they have been doing a lot during this election campaign)

not to mention the 'snappy' naming of 'dementia tax' - brings to mind the re-labelling of a spare room subsidy to 'bedroom tax' !

 

The total population prevalence of dementia among over 65s is 7.1% (based on 2013 population data).

This equals one in every 79 (1.3%) of the entire UK population, and 1 in every 14 of the population aged 65 years and over.

Compared to the 2007 estimates, the current prevalence consensus found there are slightly more people with dementia in the youngest (65 to 69) and oldest (90+) age bands and slightly fewer in the intermediate age groups.

Well hush say it quietly, but dementia is a diagnosable disease.  Just like cancer.  And it's treatment should be paid for by the NHS budget.

However dementia is not the only problem for which you would need social care over many years.  It might be 30-40% of population at a guess who will end up needing this.

Anyhow a  30-40% social care tax on estates over £100k should be the equivalent budget to what was proposed for individuals.

[winkie]

51 minutes ago, thisisthisitmaybe said:

Completely agree. Dementia is increasing as people are living older but it's hardly like every other person gets it in old age. I also think celebrity culture has been behind this, celebs like Fiona Philips making documentaries of their parents' dementia, partly through genuine feelings but also to keep themselves in the public eye. It is a horrible experience for all involved and hence is highly emotive.

The majority of us will end up dying of a natural terminal illness, but whilst being fully with it. We will spend a few weeks in hospital as the doctors sympathetically increase the drug drip-feed to send us off as painlessly as possible.

I think you are right, most of us will not die whilst we are demented......I might be completely wrong but dementia seems to be more of a illness of the better off and comfortable living....it takes no prisoners, isn't it something margaret thatcher had when she died?......sometimes your body dies before your mind, sometimes your mind dies before your body......

[thisisthisitmaybe]

21 minutes ago, winkie said:

I think you are right, most of us will not die whilst we are demented......I might be completely wrong but dementia seems to be more of a illness of the better off and comfortable living....it takes no prisoners, isn't it something margaret thatcher had when she died?......sometimes your body dies before your mind, sometimes your mind dies before your body......

I think it has a strong hereditary basis.

Yep body before mind is preferable, at least you can do the crossword in your armchair.

Maybe I'm odd, but I've never understood the desirability of a long life. Most people will suffer a major decline in their ability to do things they enjoy. My grandad went out at 65 after ordering half a pint in his local, taking up his usual seat, and dropping dead with no one noticing. I think that is preferable to what I see in hospitals.