BoE investigates 'terrifying' rise in borrowing to fund new car purchases

[Peter Hun]

 

Tesla Trounced by Obscure EV Suppliers With 200% Returns

Companies delivering battery metals and specialist materials have posted huge gains this year as tight supply lifts prices. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-16/tesla-being-trounced-by-lithium-ev-supply-chain-stocks

[markyh]

2 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

You seem to missed the basics of investing. History is no guide to the future.

The trend is your friend, i've made wayyy more money investing than you will in 5 lifetimes. 

[Peter Hun]

2 hours ago, markyh said:

The trend is your friend, i've made wayyy more money investing than you will in 5 lifetimes. 

You know nothing about me

[Confusion of VIs]

8 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

He pays tax at 37% so how does he end ip with more shares.

Insteas of wittering on about  my shares, go and read how it works at the link I gave you.

To date he has exercised options to buy 17.1m shares at $6 and sold 12.9m a net gain of 4.2m. He still has to exercise options on another 5.7m and sell another 2.8m,

At the end of the exercise he will have increased his holding by 8.1m shares 

 

[Confusion of VIs]

On 17/12/2021 at 05:46, Peter Hun said:

You seem to missed the basics of investing. History is no guide to the future.

I agree but knowing what you are investing in is. In this case, knowing that, despite all the claims about new models, the competition is not coming (they just don't have the batteries) and that Musk's "sales" were actually just a tax efficient way for him to increase his stake.    

I bought the Musk "sales" inspired dip all the way down to 900 and, as I told you it would, once he completed his sales it bounced back. End result of the dip was he saved $2bn in tax.

I hope you closed your short position as I don't think you will get a better opportunity. Once the Q4 figures come in the share price is unlikely to ever revisit $1000 and watch it go by the end of 2022 when it starts to dawn on people that in the long term the Tesla energy business will be bigger than the car business.

[Odysseus]

On 17/12/2021 at 10:10, Peter Hun said:

You know nothing about me

Just put him on ignore. He’s a great example of how money can’t buy class.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Odysseus

[markyh]

3 hours ago, Odysseus said:

Just put him on ignore. He’s a great example of how money can’t buy class.

Working class, always will be. You can take the boy out of the council estate....................

[2buyornot2buy]

5 hours ago, Odysseus said:

Just put him on ignore. He’s a great example of how money can’t buy class.

Money shouts. Wealth whispers. 

[Saving For a Space Ship]

don't think this got a mention ..

Dieselgate: British car buyers’ claim against VW reaches high court  

91,000 seek compensation after finding their cars emit more air pollutant than the company said

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/dec/05/dieselgate-british-car-buyers-claim-vw-reaches-high-court

[Peter Hun]

On 24/12/2021 at 02:40, Confusion of VIs said:

I agree but knowing what you are investing in is. In this case, knowing that, despite all the claims about new models, the competition is not coming (they just don't have the batteries) and that Musk's "sales" were actually just a tax efficient way for him to increase his stake.    

I bought the Musk "sales" inspired dip all the way down to 900 and, as I told you it would, once he completed his sales it bounced back. End result of the dip was he saved $2bn in tax.

I hope you closed your short position as I don't think you will get a better opportunity. Once the Q4 figures come in the share price is unlikely to ever revisit $1000 and watch it go by the end of 2022 when it starts to dawn on people that in the long term the Tesla energy business will be bigger than the car business.

"They don't have the batteries "?

Do you genuinely believe that or are you Trash Talking? Companies like VW have tied up supply back to the mine. Standard practice with the car industry of course, Ford and  his rubber plantations.

With competition like the Ioniq 5, the world's best EV from the world  number 3 legacy car maker, Tesla is getting squeezed left right and center. Dream on like its 2013.

I don't have to close my short, its open ended. How many time do i need to tell you this..

Now it's about the energy business, which they have no USP and no market share. What happened to RoboTaxis market dominance justification for the ridiculous SP? Seen the scary YouTube videos, have you ?

[Peter Hun]

On 24/12/2021 at 14:43, markyh said:

Working class, always will be. You can take the boy out of the council estate....................

I grew up on a council estate, its no excuse.

[markyh]

4 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

"They don't have the batteries "?

Do you genuinely believe that or are you Trash Talking? Companies like VW have tied up supply back to the mine. Standard practice with the car industry of course, Ford and  his rubber plantations.

With competition like the Ioniq 5, the world's best EV from the world  number 3 legacy car maker, Tesla is getting squeezed left right and center. Dream on like its 2013.

I don't have to close my short, its open ended. How many time do i need to tell you this..

Now it's about the energy business, which they have no USP and no market share. What happened to RoboTaxis market dominance justification for the ridiculous SP? Seen the scary YouTube videos, have you ?

VW will never make majority EV's until forced. In 2020 they saved $21000 in EU fines for every EV the group sold, so they only paid $120m in fines compared to several $$ Billions.  

As 2021 proved, VW's Global EV sales are nowhere compared to Tesla.  The Kia is a good car , better than a Tesla nope. Still comes down to the same old things, spec any competitor up to match a Tesla and they are the same or more expensive, and often still lacking in range and performance, when they are not secretly catching fire and being hushed up by dealers. 

We will have the 2021 figures for everyone within a month, and still no one will be anywhere near Tesla for sales. The competition are fooked now, Tesla has the factory capacity and battery capacity to shift 1.5-2m cars in 2022, plus other businesses. 

 

 

[Saving For a Space Ship]

15 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

 

With competition like the Ioniq 5, the world's best EV from the world  number 3 legacy car maker,

IMO its too early to tell, especially after this disaster ..

Kona Electric battery recall keeps troubling Hyundai

https://www.electrive.com/2021/04/07/kona-ev-owners-find-hyundai-mishandling-recall/

Quote

The Kona Electric uses the same batteries as GM’s Chevrolet Bolt, for which there was also a recall. GM had begun swapping the batteries that October, while Hyundai stuck with the software update as a final solution.

That was until the company had to give in this February when Korean media reported Hyundai was replacing the entire batteries of all 77,000 Kona Electric vehicles worldwide.

These account for nearly 70% of the 111,000 units sold over the past three years in Hyundai’s major markets of Europe, the US and South Korea. A few days later, on 25 February, the manufacturer extended the recall to include not only the Kona Electric but also the Ioniq Electric and some Elec City e-bus units at the cost of $900 million following fires in 15 Kona EVs.

Nov ev sales figures. I wonder how the poor crash test safety results will affect zoe sales? 

Tesla Model 3 Is Best-Selling EV & #12 Overall Car in Europe in November 2021

https://www.tesmanian.com/blogs/tesmanian-blog/tesla-model-3-1-best-selling-bev-12-best-selling-car-in-europe-in-november-2021

 

Plans in England for car chargers in all commercial car parks quietly rolled back

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/dec/27/plans-in-england-for-car-chargers-in-all-commercial-car-parks-quietly-rolled-back

Edited December 27, 2021 by Saving For a Space Ship

[10 rillington place]

Doubtful the Tesla Cybertruck will be coming to the UK? Its the only Tesla I'd be interested in buying. Just as well maybe as this thread title would  be very significant to me!

[dpg50000]

5 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

Plans in England for car chargers in all commercial car parks quietly rolled back

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/dec/27/plans-in-england-for-car-chargers-in-all-commercial-car-parks-quietly-rolled-back

Quote from the DfT in that article. Who the f**k talks like that?

 

"With about 80% of all EV charging happening at home, this is a significant step forward as we accelerate towards our net zero targets and power up the electric revolution.”

[Confusion of VIs]

19 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

"They don't have the batteries "?

Do you genuinely believe that or are you Trash Talking? Companies like VW have tied up supply back to the mine. Standard practice with the car industry of course, Ford and  his rubber plantations.

No they don't. 

Today VW has zero battery plants, they are currently they or two one in Sweden opening in 2023 and one in Germany opening in 2025 and have plans for four more that will in total give them 240Gwh of production capacity by 2030 (as does Ford).  Tesla will pass this by 2023 and have plans for 3Twh by 2030. 

19 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

With competition like the Ioniq 5, the world's best EV from the world  number 3 legacy car maker, Tesla is getting squeezed left right and center. Dream on like its 2013.

The Ionic 5 is a very good car but Hyundai and Kia are even more battery constrained than VW. (Mainly because until around 12 months ago they were betting heavily on Hydrogen fuel cells being the future). They are aiming to be able to produce 150,000 a yr by 2024.

19 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

I don't have to close my short, its open ended. How many time do i need to tell you this..

You have a short position, how you close that is immaterial. 

19 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

Now it's about the energy business, which they have no USP and no market share. What happened to RoboTaxis market dominance justification for the ridiculous SP? Seen the scary YouTube videos, have you ?

What do you know about the energy business? 

What scary You tube videos?

[Peter Hun]

On 27/12/2021 at 15:33, Confusion of VIs said:

Today VW has zero battery plants, they are currently they or two one in Sweden opening in 2023 and one in Germany opening in 2025 and have plans for four more that will in total give them 240Gwh of production capacity by 2030 (as does Ford).  Tesla will pass this by 2023 and have plans for 3Twh by 2030. 

On 26/12/2021 at 19:14, Peter Hun said:

With competition like the Ioniq 5, the world's best EV from the world  number 3 legacy car maker, Tesla is getting squeezed left right and center. Dream on like its 2013.

The Ionic 5 is a very good car but Hyundai and Kia are even more battery constrained than VW. (Mainly because until around 12 months ago they were betting heavily on Hydrogen fuel cells being the future). They are aiming to be able to produce 15

Apparently you believe this crap.

Until recently Tesla sourced their batteries from Panasonic, CATL and LG Chem. Next year its sourcing materials from miners to make its own batteries. But you dont know how or if their long term plans will work out as the lithium deal with Ganfeng Lithium is only for three years. 

In comparison VW,  for example, obtain batteries from SKI and LG and switched to CATL. Their next step is building 7 Giga factories in Europe with Northvolt. Lithium source from Canda, and others (probably Savannah Resources in Portugal)

Tesla have no advantage and no monopoly of supply as they are very dependant on China. The Lithium Iron batteries in China are made in the same plant that supplies BYD (and CATL are apparently building a factory in Poland). 

Hyundai are supplied by LG Chem, who will no doubt be securing their supply chain with mining offtakes

https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla-ev-battery-graphite-51640271499

[2buyornot2buy]

22 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

Apparently you believe this crap.

Until recently Tesla sourced their batteries from Panasonic, CATL and LG Chem. Next year its sourcing materials from miners to make its own batteries. But you dont know how or if their long term plans will work out as the lithium deal with Ganfeng Lithium is only for three years. 

In comparison VW,  for example, obtain batteries from SKI and LG and switched to CATL. Their next step is building 7 Giga factories in Europe with Northvolt. Lithium source from Canda, and others (probably Savannah Resources in Portugal)

Tesla have no advantage and no monopoly of supply as they are very dependant on China. The Lithium Iron batteries in China are made in the same plant that supplies BYD (and CATL are apparently building a factory in Poland). 

Hyundai are supplied by LG Chem, who will no doubt be securing their supply chain with mining offtakes

https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla-ev-battery-graphite-51640271499

Shut up Peter. Don't you know Musk The Messiah personally births every battery from his own womb. Like a lithium battery termite queen. 

[Saving For a Space Ship]

How the Auto Industry Cheats and Has a Huge Environmental Impact | Dieselgate | ENDEVR Documentary

Did anyone go to jail ?

Quote

Documentary from 2017 ‘Dieselgate’ made headlines around the world. For deliberately cheating the system, Volkswagen were made to pay a record $20 billion fine. But, as this investigation shows, they were far from the only culprits. We met the researchers who uncovered the cheat device and investigate the dangers posed by NOx (nitrogen oxides) emissions.

We also look at Peugeot-Citroen, now the subject of a judicial inquiry and also Renault, accused by investigators of consciously defrauding the emissions tests. Our source from inside Renault reveals that his job was to ensure that the car’s emissions stayed under the standard while in lab conditions only, with no regard for the real impact of pollution in cities.

And there is no doubt that air pollution kills. We meet a team of researchers from MIT who say there have been 4000 premature deaths across Europe due to NOx excessive emissions due to diesel cars marketed as ‘clean’.

Thirty people in France are now taking the state to court for not protecting them. Ministers claim that no one knew about the problem until recently.

But we reveal the truth. We meet the ex-European Commissioner for the Environment who first raised this issue in 2011 long before the VW scandal. And surely now that the scandal has been revealed, things will change for the better?

Recently in Europe all 27 member states voted to increase the allowed standard for NOx emissions to more than double.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Saving For a Space Ship

[Confusion of VIs]

On 28/12/2021 at 17:49, Peter Hun said:

Apparently you believe this crap.

Until recently Tesla sourced their batteries from Panasonic, CATL and LG Chem. Next year its sourcing materials from miners to make its own batteries. But you dont know how or if their long term plans will work out as the lithium deal with Ganfeng Lithium is only for three years. 

In comparison VW,  for example, obtain batteries from SKI and LG and switched to CATL. Their next step is building 7 Giga factories in Europe with Northvolt. Lithium source from Canda, and others (probably Savannah Resources in Portugal)

Tesla have no advantage and no monopoly of supply as they are very dependant on China. The Lithium Iron batteries in China are made in the same plant that supplies BYD (and CATL are apparently building a factory in Poland). 

Hyundai are supplied by LG Chem, who will no doubt be securing their supply chain with mining offtakes

https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla-ev-battery-graphite-51640271499

Every time you comment you show you don't really know what you are investing in.

In addition to developing its own battery chemistry and production plants Tesla is expanding all of its partner ship deals.

• In June the president of CATL said they are aiming to be Tesla's largest battery supplier, they are building a large plant to supply Tesla Shanghai. the "apparent" Polish plant is apparently being built to supply tesla Berlin.
• Panasonic is looking to expand its partnership with Tesla. Currently the partnership has the worlds largest battery plant at Tesla Navada. Panasonic is building another plant to produce the 4860 battery which (assuming they can resolve current scaling up issues) will be several times larger. 
• BYD has signed contracts to provide its LFP battery for the standard range model 3 and Y.
• In addition Tesla is building its own production facilities at the Berlin and Texas plants. like the assembly plants this will be by far the two largest lines in the world.

All of these firms want to supply Tesla because the sales potential is so much higher than the legacy firms. Tesla is planning to have 3Twh of battery production by 2030,  over 12 times VWs plans.  It's also the only firm that is even trying to establish a full supply chain outside of China.

Currently its looking likely that Tesla's only real competition will come from BYD, it is now not that far behind and expanding sales even faster.     

  

 

[Peter Hun]

VW are building their own plants via Northvolt.  First cell produced yesterday, using thier own chemistry, as all battery manufacturers are wnt to do.

Again,  my point is Tesla not all the market, not even the majority. They account for <20% of world market. Battery manufacturers will supply whomever pays them, up to supply limits.

There is plenty of competition who are outgrowing the Americans in their own markets,  VW are selling 2:1 versus third place Tesla in Europe and BYD are 4:1 in  China.

14% and 8% market share in the two biggest markets is not bad. But its not dominant or leading. They lead in the USA, but the competition hasn't even started there.

[Gigantic Purple Slug]

25 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

VW are building their own plants via Northvolt.  First cell produced yesterday, using thier own chemistry, as all battery manufacturers are wnt to do.

Again,  my point is Tesla not all the market, not even the majority. They account for <20% of world market. Battery manufacturers will supply whomever pays them, up to supply limits.

There is plenty of competition who are outgrowing the Americans in their own markets,  VW are selling 2:1 versus third place Tesla in Europe and BYD are 4:1 in  China.

14% and 8% market share in the two biggest markets is not bad. But its not dominant or leading. They lead in the USA, but the competition hasn't even started there.

Are they actually aiming at all the market though ?

If so their product range would cover a range of vehicles, from the smallest to the largest.

In fact they appear like they are aiming at the more BMW/Audi segment of the market, with mid to large saloons rather than offering hatchbacks/super minis.

I don't see that they have a car equivalent to say a ford focus supermini, or VW golf which is probably one of the best selling cars in the UK.

Of course, they may have aimed at that market segment because that would be the only one that would carry the increased cost of EV in the early years.

[Peter Hun]

The ID.3 is the golf equivalent, Tesla dont compete in this segment as you say.

The only real cheap small car is the Dacia Spring. Problem is that the battery's are expensive so making cheap small cars is impossible. There is an FT article explaining the legacy laggards (Toyota) rightly point out that  the rest of the world will never be able to afford the cars or charging  infrastructure. 

Hence the interest in Hydrogen/ammonia. 

[Confusion of VIs]

2 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

VW are building their own plants via Northvolt.  First cell produced yesterday, using thier own chemistry, as all battery manufacturers are wnt to do.

Again,  my point is Tesla not all the market, not even the majority. They account for <20% of world market. Battery manufacturers will supply whomever pays them, up to supply limits.

There is plenty of competition who are outgrowing the Americans in their own markets,  VW are selling 2:1 versus third place Tesla in Europe and BYD are 4:1 in  China.

14% and 8% market share in the two biggest markets is not bad. But its not dominant or leading. They lead in the USA, but the competition hasn't even started there.

Even if VW successfully executes all of their latest plans it only gets you to around 3m EVs a year by 2030. That's not much good when by then they will have lost almost all of their ICE sales.

Look at their plans over the past 5 yrs and you will see a succession of fantasies, maddest of all in March 2021 they were saying they would have 50 of the Chinese EV market.  I doubt they will have 5% and at the same time their ICE sales will have collapsed.  

 Volkswagen Plans To Dominate 70 Percent Of EV Market In Europe By 2030 (insideevs.com) 

They are also staking a lot on Quantumscape successfully commercialising their solid state batteries. Lots of big claims are coming out about progress but the markets are still not convinced. I bought some shares back in November last year, which quickly shot up 5 times in value and just as quickly went back down and are now worth almost exactly what I paid for them.    

2 hours ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Are they actually aiming at all the market though ?

If so their product range would cover a range of vehicles, from the smallest to the largest.

In fact they appear like they are aiming at the more BMW/Audi segment of the market, with mid to large saloons rather than offering hatchbacks/super minis.

I don't see that they have a car equivalent to say a ford focus supermini, or VW golf which is probably one of the best selling cars in the UK.

Of course, they may have aimed at that market segment because that would be the only one that would carry the increased cost of EV in the early years.

That's exactly it.

They have public ally stated that  it does not make sense to produce a $25k car while sales of the higher priced models are battery constrained. Their $25k car will be designed and produced in China, design work is already underway and it's reasonable to expect an announcement of both the car and a second much larger China factory next year.  

1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

The ID.3 is the golf equivalent, Tesla dont compete in this segment as you say.

The only real cheap small car is the Dacia Spring. Problem is that the battery's are expensive so making cheap small cars is impossible. There is an FT article explaining the legacy laggards (Toyota) rightly point out that  the rest of the world will never be able to afford the cars or charging  infrastructure. 

Hence the interest in Hydrogen/ammonia. 

The iD3 was a compliance car, launched before it was really ready, to reduce penalty taxes. My wife's has been back to the dealer 3 times for software updates and it's still doesn't have the ability to update online. She has been promised one more visit will sort out the problem, described to her as "it has got itself in a bit of a muddle"  

After years of lobbying to stop the move to BEVs, Toyota (like Hyundai and Kia) has realised they betting on the wrong horses (hybrids and Hydrogen), a couple of weeks ago they announced a $35bn investment in BEVs. Maybe this means they will also stop insulting their customers intelligence with ads for "self charging hybrids".

 

    

[Saving For a Space Ship]

3 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

  VW are selling 2:1 versus third place Tesla in Europe

Quote

Tesla Model 3 On Track To Become Europe's Best-Selling EV

In 2021 Tesla sold 113,397 Model 3s in the first 11 months of the year, while second-placed VW ID.3 is far behind with 63,109 sales.

https://insideevs.com/news/557755/tesla-model3-bestselling-ev-europe/