Prepare For House Price Collapse

[Sour Mash]

Uncontrolled immigration.

Doesn't work when you issue tax credits and housing benefits and child benefits to every newly arrived immigrant.

A side effect of the 'needs based' rather than 'contribution based' system that the UK has, not necessarily the EU 'freedom of movement' doctrine.

To be honest, I'm surprised no-one has seriously tried to reform the UK welfare system - maybe they figure that such a large chunk of the native population are now dependant upon it that any sort of meaningful reform risks serious social unrest. The tax credits system is just plain stupid too - basically extending the tentrils of welfare into the region of low paid employment.

[cashinmattress]

Everybody has ZIRP policy. Sure, the system was corrupt but it worked.

No, it has not. However that statement saved me reading more shyte.

Uh huh... and you've been living in poverty, shackled to some horrid limb smashing machine earning a fish head per shift.

Central bank rates http://www.global-rates.com/interest-rates/central-banks/central-banks.aspx

Looks pretty ZIRP to me.

Corruption works when you're on the right side of the exchange and even more so when you profit in the exchange mechanism.

Do you actually have an argument for or against?

[cashinmattress]

cashinmattress, are you in favour of expansion of the EU - Turkey, Albania, Bosnia etc?

If not, why not?

Are you in favour of allowing non-EUs the same freedom of movement as EU citizens? If not, why not? You're clearly opposed to a points system, this is why I ask.

If you answered no to any of the above questions, why do you discriminate between one person and another, purely based on their country of origin? This is no different to discriminating against them based on the colour of their skin (an arbitrary distinction not based on merit). Why do you do that?

Nope. I know people from all these countries, plenty of very good folk there.

I'll be travelling through the region by motorbike soon. Plenty of clubs, rallies, and friends all over.

Montenegro has some of the most beautiful landscapes imaginable.

I discriminate against abject stupidity and bigotry, yes, always.

EDIT: Also I disagree how our media uses the powers of social engineering, pandering to base emotion akin to Bernays & Geobbels works, to put these countries and their people in such a negative light. Thankfully the UK is exposing its rotten core willingly to the world through social media, it will make for some interesting conversations abroad.

Edited July 14, 2016 by cashinmattress

[“Nasty Piece of work”]

Do you actually have an argument for or against?

What am I for or against? I am saying clearly that to say" it has worked" is rubbish, and therefore whatever you say should be viewed with this pedigree.

[renting til I die]

Cameron and Osborne, Brexit sure fixed them.

LOL. I was reading this thinking, oh my, this tread has turned into another BREXIT row. Cameron and Osborne will be just fine but at least they are not running the country now!

Cashinthemattress is like some of the people I used to argue with about why the Euro wasn't a great idea for the UK to join. Until it fails or at least shows signs of problems, they won't be able to see the faults.

[canbuywontbuy]

Nope. I know people from all these countries, plenty of very good folk there.

I'll be travelling through the region by motorbike soon. Plenty of clubs, rallies, and friends all over.

Montenegro has some of the most beautiful landscapes imaginable.

I discriminate against abject stupidity and bigotry, yes, always.

EDIT: Also I disagree how our media uses the powers of social engineering, pandering to base emotion akin to Bernays & Geobbels works, to put these countries and their people in such a negative light. Thankfully the UK is exposing its rotten core willingly to the world through social media, it will make for some interesting conversations abroad.

You didn't answer my question:-

Are you in favour of allowing non-EUs the same freedom of movement as EU citizens? If not, why not? You're clearly opposed to a points system, this is why I ask.

You sort of skirted around it, by saying how cool you are with people of all countries. This isn't some unique disposition by the way, nor does it have anything to do with the discussion of immigration. The discussion of immigration centrally rotates around infrastructure and the financial cost/benefit of immigration to a country, not the landscape in Montenegro.

Anyway, I'd be interested in your answer on this one, and your economic reasoning behind it.

[the gardener]

Nope. I know people from all these countries, plenty of very good folk there.

I'll be travelling through the region by motorbike soon. Plenty of clubs, rallies, and friends all over.

Montenegro has some of the most beautiful landscapes imaginable.

I discriminate against abject stupidity and bigotry, yes, always.

EDIT: Also I disagree how our media uses the powers of social engineering, pandering to base emotion akin to Bernays & Geobbels works, to put these countries and their people in such a negative light. Thankfully the UK is exposing its rotten core willingly to the world through social media, it will make for some interesting conversations abroad.

Lovely warm and fluffy.

How about you answer the questions?

[canbuywontbuy]

How much poorer am I because of non-working immigrants (ignore students in your sums)? Not just non-working immigrants, but working immigrants. They cost us in tax credits, housing benefits and child benefits, while keeping wages on the floor (the fishhead you mentioned in another post)

How has my quality of life been eroded because of immigration? See above answer

How have my freedoms, life choices, rights and security been negatively effected by immigration? you're poorer (as the average person, not you specifically, as I don't know your circumstances, you might be running a translation service for EU migrants for all I know).

Versus.

All the above in the case of BREXIT? You get to control immigration, like 95%+ of the countries of the world - which in turn helps ameliorate the above issues over time.

All the opportunities awaiting me (and the rest of the UK's subjects)? When the above issues become less, expect wages to rise, and the UK deficit to be smaller. Currently we're paying circa £1.5Bn a WEEK in interest on our national debt.

[canbuywontbuy]

Lovely warm and fluffy.

How about you answer the questions?

He can't answer it. He's faced with a horrible realisation that freedom of movement for the entire world to live and work in the UK is simply impractical. Then he thinks "oh, but that'll make me look racist if I say that, according to my own standards!" so he refuses to answer and instead talks about the Montenegrin landscape and how he's cool with people from all nations.

Edited July 14, 2016 by canbuywontbuy

[TheCountOfNowhere]

I think he's right,

[spunko2010]

Another thread derailed by cashintheattic.

[long time lurking]

Everybody has ZIRP policy. Sure, the system was corrupt but it worked.

You are making the mistake of assumption. You know how that saying goes right...

Never stated my view on a BREXIT vote, only the folly of it.

BREXIT with no plan B is like wearing lead shoes in a bull fight. No plan B, or C. No plan at all.

Terrible for all non-Brits living and working here who are being subjected to petty hate crime, for which this vote has apparently given a mandate to the bigots who infest these islands.

And now we have the UK equivalent of former Toronto Mayor Rob Ford as our foreign secretary?

The collapse of government, infighting, and lack of democratic mandate is making the UK look like a Banana republic on the world stage.

We are at risk of destroying our standard of living permanently. Sure (risk) it existed before, but it's playing out now.

All the promises from the leave side have been fiction or fabrication with a campaign built on fear and pandering to base emotion.

That is my issue. Just about everything that has been happening was forecasted.

And we've done the typical contemporary British thing. Elevated and celebrated our idiots, ignored the wise.

Good luck to us all.

http://www.ifamagazine.com/ifa/uk-pensions-risk-like-never-following-brexit-says-devere/

Plan B

Yes it was the high of irresponsibility by Cameron &co not to have a plan B theres no excuse fro that and that`s why he resigned but blaming the people that vote to leave for this, is just as culpable as Cameron`s short comings

But here`s the outline of plan B from the minister in charge of Brexit http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/07/david-davis-trade-deals-tax-cuts-and-taking-time-before-triggering-article-50-a-brexit-economic-strategy-for-britain.html

[TheCountOfNowhere]

Another thread derailed by cashintheattic.

Look on the bright side, it wasn't a 1 post wonder telling us to buy a house now....

[wonderpup]

We are at risk of destroying our standard of living permanently.

Funny enough it was exactly this kind of thinking that caused many people to vote to leave the EU- they could not reconcile it's policies of unlimited immigration with finite-and declining- local resources- so they had no choice but to opt for Brexit since any other choice would have been irrational.

[Riedquat]

Funny enough it was exactly this kind of thinking that caused many people to vote to leave the EU- they could not reconcile it's policies of unlimited immigration with finite-and declining- local resources- so they had no choice but to opt for Brexit since any other choice would have been irrational.

I suppose it depends what you regard as standard of living. A lot of people, myself included, expect some loss of wealth (although even that isn't certain, especially not in the longer term). If that's your only measure of standard of living then it is an issue, although quite how such people can be capable of appreciating life and the world they live in enough to have any meaningful standard of living anyway is beyond me.

[long time lurking]

Ok then.

Qualify your argument with some numbers and facts and not just vacuous rhetoric.. seemingly parroted from Leave campaign posters?

How much poorer am I because of non-working immigrants (ignore students in your sums)?

How has my quality of life been eroded because of immigration?

How have my freedoms, life choices, rights and security been negatively effected by immigration?

Versus.

All the above in the case of BREXIT?

All the opportunities awaiting me (and the rest of the UK's subjects)?

So it`s all about just you ,is see now it`s not worth arguing if it just me ,me ,me me i take it you see yourself as losing out because of Brexit ,theres winners and loser's in everything ,you just need to suck it up like the 17.5 million that voted leave have been doing for well over a decade now ....you can always just go elsewhere if you don`t like it perhaps Canada

[billybong]

It'll be interesting to see if Brandon Lewis keeps his job as Housing Minister seeing as during his time housing starts have continued to be record breakingly low year after year.

Not that he's solely to blame of course.

[spunko2010]

you can always just go elsewhere if you don`t like it perhaps Canada

Steady on. I was thinking the Guardian...

[Habeas Domus]

Why do so many people cling to the idea that Brexit was about immigration?

Staying in or leaving the EU is not going to change immigration levels one iota.

The only people who have been endlessley pushing that agenda have been the idiot gutter press and the BBC, because they dont want to get into a "difficult" discussion about what the EU really means.

[AvoidDebt]

Becker added: Interest-only loans, which were most prevalent in the run-up to the financial crisis, are more likely to fall into negative equity because their principal balance stays constant while prices move.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/jul/14/northern-england-house-prices-negative-equity-moodys-bank-of-england

Need to see some actual meaty falls now, otherwise this is all just one big HPC d#ck tease.....

Edited July 14, 2016 by AvoidDebt

[ccc]

Why do so many people cling to the idea that Brexit was about immigration?

Staying in or leaving the EU is not going to change immigration levels one iota.

The only people who have been endlessley pushing that agenda have been the idiot gutter press and the BBC, because they dont want to get into a "difficult" discussion about what the EU really means.

For many people - myself included - it was one of the major factors.

[cashinmattress]

Plan B

Yes it was the high of irresponsibility by Cameron &co not to have a plan B theres no excuse fro that and that`s why he resigned but blaming the people that vote to leave for this, is just as culpable as Cameron`s short comings

But here`s the outline of plan B from the minister in charge of Brexit http://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2016/07/david-davis-trade-deals-tax-cuts-and-taking-time-before-triggering-article-50-a-brexit-economic-strategy-for-britain.html

His 'plans' seem like bunk. Full of catchy emotive phrasing and no figures, framework, precedence or even statements of intent. All feathers, no chicken.

Until such time as even one of these 'plans' materialises into something we are left with massive uncertainty across the whole of the UK, all sectors, all industries, and are being preyed upon by the hedge fund wolves.

Taking back control of trade - whatever. Decades of negotiation from a position of weakness, on our back heels. It's been clearly noted that we don't have the people, expertise, or moxy to complete this efficiently. Should have been in play +5 years prior with agreements and (fully transparent) framework laid out at least to engaging public in referendum.

Cutting taxes and cutting red tape – but protecting workers - complete bull. Holidays and rights brought to you by the EU are going to disappear. Mark those words. Taxes ARE going up to cover up the shortfalls of lost revue from housing, trade, employment, and the health and social welfare state. If a Tory says they are protecting jobs we should all be ready for the axe.

Single market access – and why we should take time before triggering Article 50. - that's not what our biggest trading partners (EU) are saying. Now we negotiate with 28 counties instead of one entity. Brilliant. Want to see corruption, let this one ride out for a while and see who's driving around in Bentleys.

Like I've warned. Prepare to get FRACKED in a huge way middle Englander, pay more for energy, and have about zero of these leave 'pledges' materialise in your lifetimes.

[long time lurking]

His 'plans' seem like bunk. Full of catchy emotive phrasing and no figures, framework, precedence or even statements of intent. All feathers, no chicken.

Until such time as even one of these 'plans' materialises into something we are left with massive uncertainty across the whole of the UK, all sectors, all industries, and are being preyed upon by the hedge fund wolves.

Taking back control of trade - whatever. Decades of negotiation from a position of weakness, on our back heels. It's been clearly noted that we don't have the people, expertise, or moxy to complete this efficiently. Should have been in play +5 years prior with agreements and (fully transparent) framework laid out at least to engaging public in referendum.

Cutting taxes and cutting red tape – but protecting workers - complete bull. Holidays and rights brought to you by the EU are going to disappear. Mark those words. Taxes ARE going up to cover up the shortfalls of lost revue from housing, trade, employment, and the health and social welfare state. If a Tory says they are protecting jobs we should all be ready for the axe.

Single market access – and why we should take time before triggering Article 50. - that's not what our biggest trading partners (EU) are saying. Now we negotiate with 28 counties instead of one entity. Brilliant. Want to see corruption, let this one ride out for a while and see who's driving around in Bentleys.

Like I've warned. Prepare to get FRACKED in a huge way middle Englander, pay more for energy, and have about zero of these leave 'pledges' materialise in your lifetimes.

You are obviously in the wrong job you seem to know for certain so much....seems to me only one person is speculating here

No negotiating with27 countries just one the EU but 27 have a say (this is the reason the EU have very few trade deals and they take forever to negotiate) as no one are allowed to do bilateral trades on their own whilst in the EU

One on one =simple

Should have been in place 5+ years prior ...WTF how ?

[shindigger]

Please to be removing the cash from the mattress and relocating to Nova Scotia pronto. There's a love.

[cashinmattress]

You are obviously in the wrong job you seem to know for certain so much....seems to me only one person is speculating here

No negotiating with27 countries just one the EU but 27 have a say (this is the reason the EU have very few trade deals and they take forever to negotiate) as no one are allowed to do bilateral trades on their own whilst in the EU

One on one =simple

Should have been in place 5+ years prior ...WTF how ?

So we are getting all kinds of 'ideas' bandied about by the political class... career politicians with almost no real world business sense or skills.

Like (NOW) lets set up agreements with X and Y outwith the EU free trade zone...examples. China. NZ, Canada? (who we already trade with who are outside the EU).

Let's also try to negotiate the same or better terms with our EU partners from a side of the table the UK has never been on, or hasn't been in a generation?

Why is this an issue NOW?

Lots of this could have been penned to paper prior and open for public debate.

It Britain has the balls it purports it does now, this would not have been done on whim with bluff and bluster. We should have led this EU, but were subservient to the Germans. FFS. Now we are at their mercy.

It's all just abysmal stupidity on display in this country. (Thanks to Mr Waltz)

And I feel sorry for all the aged ones, really do. Yer now fecked (property, pensions, health care) and nobody is going to bail you out, plus there will be no jobs where you can work 4 hours with a 2 hour mid afternoon nap...

http://www.cityam.com/245407/brexit-batters-pension-plans-falling-annuity-rates-slashed