Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[debtlessmanc]

12 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Remember when Germany voted in a party that started exterminating Jewish people. Do you think that was the right thing to do because the other side failed to win the argument?

They never actually did, Hitler was not elected and it certainly was not his declared policy. Many centre voting Germans held their nose and voted for an unknown rather than the communists who had already started exterminating the Kulak's in their millions next door.

Never understood the idea that murdering people because of their religion was worse than doing it for their belief in a free market.

Edited September 27, 2021 by debtlessmanc

[pig]

24 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

Why do the remainer crowd keep harping on to me about Tories when I have stated many times they share the blame along with the rest of the Westminster establishment. 

Many labour people were anti EU, Corbyn, Galloway, Bob Crow, etc, not just anti EU Tories. 

Yelim's points regarding pay is irrelevant on the backdrop of a COVID world that shut down and reopened simultaneously, it is extremely difficult for anyone to separate lockdown related issues and Brexit ones although it's safe to say a global shutdown will dominate the environment. 

Whereas many ex HGV drivers have chipped in on the radio stating as a HGV driver of many years who saw his day rate drop from £220 to £80 with the influx of east European drivers. So he left the industry along with thousands of others.

Again why do you think the 2000 petrol strikes arose, it was British HGV haulage firms clearly warning the Govt they couldn't compete with European Haulage firms due to imbalances Westminster didn't give a cr@p about. 

The current HGV driver shortage is absolutely everything to do with with the long term damage being a member of the EU did to many an industry but middle class remianers took the short term view of it offered cheap labour now ignoring the long term consequences. 

 

If they were suffering before they must be totally fecked now.

Not that Leavers would GAF - as far as they are concerned hauliers can sod off with the fishermen and farmers.

Well OK thats not how it would pan out - I'd imagine a lot of the haulage companies will move operations to the EU, and the ones left in the UK will fight over whats left here.

A bigger question is what happens to our supply chains, what happens to the entire industrial sector now ? Genuine question - presumably its supposed to 'adapt' but what does that actually look like ?

For example I saw an advert for a dutch company advertising to take the headache out of Brexit for British companies - is it for example an opportunity for EU logistics companies to profit from innovating indirect forms of access to the EU for British companies ?

 

 

[dugsbody]

1 minute ago, debtlessmanc said:

They never actually did, Hitler was not elected and it certainly was not his declared policy. Many centre voting Germans held their nose and voted for an unknown rather than the communists who had already started exterminating the Kulak's in their millions next door.

Never understood the idea that murdering people because of their religion was worse than doing it for their belief in a free market.

You're too stupid to understand why your refute is stupid.

So I won't bother explaining. "Prof".

[yelims]

2 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

They never actually did, Hitler was not elected and it certainly was not his declared policy. Many centre voting Germans held their nose and voted for an unknown rather than the communists who has already started exterminating the Kulak's in their millions next door.

Never understood the idea that murdering people because of their religion was worse than doing it for their belief in a free market.

Hold on Hitler did have a whole series of referendums where more and more power was grabbed and then land

[dugsbody]

17 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Irrelevant  - we've left remember? Stop harking back to the past when we were a member.

Now then, let's stay on track. It's solely down to your so-called government. One of the big lies of Brexit was to take back control.

What is Brexit for? What are the benefits?

Why are you other remainers still asking this question. It has been answered hundreds of times, explicitly by people like Huggy or implicitly by others.

Brexit is to stop Eastern Europeans moving here. The benefits (for brexiters) is fewer Eastern Europeans living here.

 

[yelims]

11 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Why are you other remainers still asking this question. It has been answered hundreds of times, explicitly by people like Huggy or implicitly by others.

Brexit is to stop Eastern Europeans moving here. The benefits (for brexiters) is fewer Eastern Europeans living here.

 

I guess it’s hard to believe that 52% of electorate are so xenophobic and think of themselves as superior somehow.

I still think the root cause is lack of education leading to people falling for sound bytes and not being able to grasp that they and their children are being shafted for benefit of elites. The same herd mentality that killed so many guys a 100 or so years back as they went over the top on the whistle of their superiors 

[Casual-observer]

23 minutes ago, pig said:

If they were suffering before they must be totally fecked now.

Not that Leavers would GAF - as far as they are concerned hauliers can sod off with the fishermen and farmers.

Well OK thats not how it would pan out - I'd imagine a lot of the haulage companies will move operations to the EU, and the ones left in the UK will fight over whats left here.

A bigger question is what happens to our supply chains, what happens to the entire industrial sector now ? Genuine question - presumably its supposed to 'adapt' but what does that actually look like ?

For example I saw an advert for a dutch company advertising to take the headache out of Brexit for British companies - is it for example an opportunity for EU logistics companies to profit from innovating indirect forms of access to the EU for British companies ?

 

 

The same as to what happens when any economic bubble inevitably pops.

This was all foreshadowed decades ago and why Brexiteers were sounding the alarm bells for the past 30 years.

It wasn't sustainable and freedom of movement (labour) although loved by the rich elites and shareholders was double edged. Slashing your wage bills in your host country also served to be a destabilising pattern within western nations as it hollowed them out. 

Remainers don't seem to want to recognise this problem, they're merely complaining about a symptom (Brexit) of it. 

I also dare say a world of everyone expecting a cheap workforce available on tap to deliver any and everything to their door at the click of the button is also proving to be unsustainable. 

Exactly how many low wage multiple occupancy living delivery drivers does it take to satisfy immobile remianer like consumers who demand maximum convenience of everything they order with minimal impact to the supply chain? 

James Goldsmith spelled it out 30 years ago, it'll be a return to a more sustainable and frugal lifestyles in the west because there is no other option on the table

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Casual-observer

[thecrashingisles]

5 minutes ago, yelims said:

I guess it’s hard to believe that 52% of electorate are so xenophobic and think of themselves as superior somehow.

Are you so xenophobic that you think you are superior to Russians?

[debtlessmanc]

27 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

You're too stupid to understand why your refute is stupid.

So I won't bother explaining. "Prof".

Well that put me in my place, obviously Hitler did get more than 50% of the vote in 1933.

Any wonder that the Vizigrad group, who actually experienced communism, are so wary of the politics expounded by people like you.

Edited September 27, 2021 by debtlessmanc

[yelims]

3 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Are you so xenophobic that you think you are superior to Russians?

No that’s a truly shithole oligarchic dystopia now.

Where the best educated and brightest from Soviet days left leaving behind uncultured plebs with sub Saharan life expectancy.

One feels pity not superiority at your country mate.

[jonb2]

4 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

Are you so xenophobic that you think you are superior to Russians?

I've always had a soft spot for Russians (and Ukrainians).

The people are an enduring type, and mainly warm with it. God knows how they put up with being misled all the time.

[dugsbody]

9 minutes ago, yelims said:

I guess it’s hard to believe that 52% of electorate are so xenophobic and think of themselves as superior somehow.

I don't even think it is only 52%. I think even many remainers think on similar lines, they just voted primary for economic reasons.

Look, the UK is a progressive country relative to many others (I know you disagree on this, but subjectively, I still think so). But rooted in there is this anglosphere superiority complex and definite xenophobia towards Europe.

Many countries in Europe are worse, with regard insular mindsets but I don't want to judge ourselves relative to that. I want the UK to be moving forward, not backward. And I fully believe that the main driving force behind brexit was insular populist nativism. There may have been some progressive characters here or there that really did believe they're doing it for the best, but few and far between.

[dugsbody]

6 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Well that put me in my place, obviously Hitler did get more than 50% of the vote in 1933.

Any wonder that the Vizigrad group, who actually experienced communism, are so wary of the politics expounded by people like you.

My example was an illustration of a point. You're unable to refute the point, so instead you attack the example.

 

[debtlessmanc]

3 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

My example was an illustration of a point. You're unable to refute the point, so instead you attack the example.

 

The Nazi party never got more than 44% of the vote and that was with widespread intimidation of the electorate by paramilitaries.  The enabling act would not have been past but for idiotic Hugenberg and the presence of the SA paramilitaries in the parliement buidling to intimidate opponents.

If Democracy had functioned properly he would not have been elected.

simply saying Hitler was elected has been rolled out as a reason to ignore the opinions of the person in the street for nearly a hundred years now.

[thecrashingisles]

18 minutes ago, yelims said:

No that’s a truly shithole oligarchic dystopia now.

Where the best educated and brightest from Soviet days left leaving behind uncultured plebs with sub Saharan life expectancy.

One feels pity not superiority at your country mate.

So to prove you're not xenophobic, will you agree to join a political union with Russia?

[IMHAL]

22 minutes ago, Casual-observer said:

The same as to what happens when any economic bubble inevitably pops.

This was all foreshadowed decades ago and why Brexiteers were sounding the alarm bells for the past 30 years.

It wasn't sustainable and freedom of movement (labour) although loved by the rich elites and shareholders was double edged. Slashing your wage bills in your host country also served to be a destabilising pattern within western nations as it hollowed them out. 

Remainers don't seem to want to recognise this problem, they're merely complaining about a symptom (Brexit) of it. 

I also dare say a world of everyone expecting a cheap workforce available on tap to deliver any and everything to their door at the click of the button is also proving to be unsustainable. 

Exactly how many low wage multiple occupancy living delivery drivers does it take to satisfy immobile remianer like consumers who demand maximum convenience of everything they order with minimal impact to the supply chain? 

James Goldsmith spelled it out 30 years ago, it'll be a return to a more sustainable and frugal lifestyles in the west because there is no other option on the table

 

Leavers voted to be poorer, is that what you are saying? I thought they voted to be richer.

Mind you, the reasons why leavers voted to leave changes every day. Could it be that tomorrow you will be cheering a US and Brazil trade deal where we import more goods from across the world than could be had locally. Probably. Just can't keep up with the contradiction that the Brexit spell seems to have cast over you lot. 

[thecrashingisles]

14 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Many countries in Europe are worse, with regard insular mindsets but I don't want to judge ourselves relative to that. I want the UK to be moving forward, not backward. And I fully believe that the main driving force behind brexit was insular populist nativism.

So you define progress as the progressive abnegation of any national identity? In your vision of the future, people will just be people and it will make no difference where you are from?

[yelims]

4 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

So to prove you're not xenophobic, will you agree to join a political union with Russia?

Not until Putin is in Siberian gulag and country had 10-20 years of meeting EU membership criteria, which it is miles away from reaching as it is currently a shithole of the deepest order

and even then it’s not up to me but democratic will of people in Eu countries who don’t want expansion to Turkey never mind 3rd world undemocratic countries like Russia, already enough trouble with Poland and Hungary 

Edited September 27, 2021 by yelims

[dugsbody]

2 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

So you define progress as the progressive abnegation of any national identity? In your vision of the future, people will just be people and it will make no difference where you are from?

Have the Welsh, Scottish and Irish lost their national identity? Where did that national identity come from in the first place?

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

37 minutes ago, yelims said:

I guess it’s hard to believe that 52% of electorate are so xenophobic and think of themselves as superior somehow.

These are the people who should be stripped of their nationality and transported to a remote Continental Scale Island in the Pacific.

Edited September 27, 2021 by Mikhail Liebenstein

[dugsbody]

6 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

The Nazi party never got more than 44% of the vote

Still attacking the example because you can't refute the point.

[thecrashingisles]

1 minute ago, dugsbody said:

Have the Welsh, Scottish and Irish lost their national identity? Where did that national identity come from in the first place?

Where do the words we are using to communicate with each other come from?

Identities are socially constructed. That doesn't mean they are not real.

[dugsbody]

1 minute ago, thecrashingisles said:

Where do the words we are using to communicate with each other come from?

Identities are socially constructed. That doesn't mean they are not real.

Cool, you're telling Scottish people they have no identity.

[thecrashingisles]

2 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Cool, you're telling Scottish people they have no identity.

How do you arrive at that conclusion from my comment?

[yelims]

1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said:

They never actually did, Hitler was not elected and it certainly was not his declared policy. 

Regarding “declared policy“ bit:

1. His (struggle) ramblings were published by this stage and his views were not exactly secret, just like the disaster capitalism of Rees  Moggs and revolutionary Trumpism of Cummings (who happened to spend extended period in Russia) are not secret

2. He promised everything to everyone both left and right, sound familiar?

3. Once got a foot in door, he leveraged more and more power, once again does that sound familiar?

4. He shown complete disregard for human lives encouraging years of violence on street, does that sound familiar while you cast your eyes over the 70000 high pile of bones over there

 

Now saying all that, Boris is no Hitler as he has more in common with Mussolini, however you shouldn’t have made that historical example, way too much smoke coming out of number 10 

Edited September 27, 2021 by yelims