Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[OnionTerror]

2 minutes ago, miguel said:

Don't know, you tell us. How much is thrown at the Brexsht Tory government by lobbyists. You can answer that one whilst you are at it. 

Just from "big tech"...$114m in the last year, on EU digital economy policies..

https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-facebook-microsoft-top-eu-lobbying-spending-study-2021-08-30/

https://euobserver.com/institutional/150406

[jonb2]

5 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

How much is thrown at the EU for lobbying?

I don't know. I do know that the EU has higher fines for corporate malfeasance than the USA.

But it's a good point Dave. I fear that our government will bend-over for anything now (Robinson? Bolsonaro? Biden?), making the USA or the EU seem like a fairyland of goodness.

[miguel]

6 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

Just from "big tech"...$114m in the last year, on EU digital economy policies..

https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-facebook-microsoft-top-eu-lobbying-spending-study-2021-08-30/

https://euobserver.com/institutional/150406

I'm sure you can dig around for many other examples:

https://www.transparency.org.uk/house-of-cards-UK-housing-policy-influence-Conservative-party-donations-lobbying-press-release

[jonb2]

5 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

You think that a speculator engaging in speculation is evidence of a plot? If Rees-Mogg and Odey are in on it then this plot already seems to include a lot of people.

You're just not being rational. Brexit is not the end of the world. It's a legitimate democratic decision and you need to move on for your own sanity.

So next it will be abortion banned for the sake of the father and hanging is good for your complexion ?

It was not legitimate or democratic, as it was built on a foundation of lies - some of which date back 40 years.

But carry on believing - you have to.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it".

How much did your employer pay for the takeover of TCI's account?

[thecrashingisles]

5 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

So next it will be abortion banned for the sake of the father and hanging is good for your complexion ?

It was not legitimate or democratic, as it was built on a foundation of lies - some of which date back 40 years.

But carry on believing - you have to.

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it".

How much did your employer pay for the takeover of TCI's account?

It's very sad to see someone reduced to posting this incoherent, conspiracy-fuelled gibberish.

Are you even a big supporter of European integration? How many European languages can you speak? Do you think we should have joined the Euro? Do you want to see fiscal integration and European income taxes?

Edited September 26, 2021 by thecrashingisles

[pig]

3 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/03/britain-low-pay-economy-warehouse-workers-online-retail

What do you think the likes of all these online shopping empires rely on?

Yes its kind of all in that article. So I'm uneasily puzzled as to why you insist on pimping this line.

If you're advocating getting rid of JIT, that won't benefit warehouse workers.

But it would be quite a wild claim needing considerable substantiation that taking an axe to our connection to the continents JIT inventory will de facto mean everybody gets an above inflation pay rise.

 

[OnionTerror]

12 minutes ago, pig said:

Yes its kind of all in that article. So I'm uneasily puzzled as to why you insist on pimping this line.

If you're advocating getting rid of JIT, that won't benefit warehouse workers.

But it would be quite a wild claim needing considerable substantiation that taking an axe to our connection to the continents JIT inventory will de facto mean everybody gets an above inflation pay rise.

 

I'm not advocating getting rid of JIT...its going to be a natural progression that we're going to move away from it especially with the EU, seeing as we've left the single market.

Edited September 26, 2021 by Dave Beans

[OnionTerror]

33 minutes ago, miguel said:

I'm sure you can dig around for many other examples:

https://www.transparency.org.uk/house-of-cards-UK-housing-policy-influence-Conservative-party-donations-lobbying-press-release

All political entities are not holier than thou, however many remainers sees the EU as a shining beacon of democracy and accountability. 

[jonb2]

34 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

It's very sad to see someone reduced to posting this incoherent, conspiracy-fuelled gibberish.

Are you even a big supporter of European integration? How many European languages can you speak? Do you think we should have joined the Euro? Do you want to see fiscal integration and European income taxes?

 

What is Brexit for? What are the benefits?

[thecrashingisles]

2 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

What is Brexit for? What are the benefits?

These are just irrelevant questions. You know the arguments for Brexit and why many people believe it is better to be outside the EU than inside it, so stop playing dumb.

[Freki]

2 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

These are just irrelevant questions. You know the arguments for Brexit and why many people believe it is better to be outside the EU than inside it, so stop playing dumb.

Blue passports alright!

[jonb2]

4 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

All political entities are not holier than thou, however many remainers sees the EU as a shining beacon of democracy and accountability. 

I don't. It has corruption. Sure. It makes mistakes. Sure.

But my beef is much more important to our daily life. The Tories lied. They turned people against each other.. They fecked up our exports. They have made the UK an embarrassment to the rest of the world. They 'othered' immigrants and foreigners in general. Now we are going to see huge incurable problems because they continue to lie and deny.

There is nobody else that deserves the blame, not the EU, not Kim Jong-un and not Sooty.

They are worse than good-for-nothing and they are destroying the UK in one final sweep of avarice, indifference and idiocy.

 

[jonb2]

3 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

These are just irrelevant questions. You know the arguments for Brexit and why many people believe it is better to be outside the EU than inside it, so stop playing dumb.

No answer then.

They weren't arguments - they were lies.

[thecrashingisles]

5 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

No answer then.

They weren't arguments - they were lies.

If you think there is no legitimate argument against being in the EU then you are a zealot.

[OnionTerror]

8 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

I don't. It has corruption. Sure. It makes mistakes. Sure.

But my beef is much more important to our daily life. The Tories lied. They turned people against each other.. They fecked up our exports. They have made the UK an embarrassment to the rest of the world. They 'othered' immigrants and foreigners in general. Now we are going to see huge incurable problems because they continue to lie and deny.

There is nobody else that deserves the blame, not the EU, not Kim Jong-un and not Sooty.

They are worse than good-for-nothing and they are destroying the UK in one final sweep of avarice, indifference and idiocy.

 

During the debate, where was the progressive argument for staying in, rather than relying solely on its economic "merits"...

[pig]

16 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

I'm not advocating getting rid of JIT...its going to be a natural progression that we're going to move away from it especially with the EU, seeing as we've left the single market.

It sounds like you want to claim Brexit means we're going to get above inflation pay rises due to screwing up JIT but you aren't offering a logical justification.

We aren't strictly speaking 'moving away' from JIT, we're cutting ourselves off from an enormous JIT inventory. That means imposing limitations on what we can make here competitively and vice versa:  limitations on the suppliers in the UK that the continent will use.

The tendency will (logically) be business owners will either JIT products from whatever is available in the UK (bearing in mind x% of uk suppliers will fold due to losing European contracts)  or they will simply move manufacture to the continent or elsewhere in the world. 

 

[thecrashingisles]

18 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

I don't. It has corruption. Sure. It makes mistakes. Sure.

But my beef is much more important to our daily life. The Tories lied. They turned people against each other.. They fecked up our exports. They have made the UK an embarrassment to the rest of the world. They 'othered' immigrants and foreigners in general. Now we are going to see huge incurable problems because they continue to lie and deny.

There is nobody else that deserves the blame, not the EU, not Kim Jong-un and not Sooty.

They are worse than good-for-nothing and they are destroying the UK in one final sweep of avarice, indifference and idiocy.

You don't have the right to berate anyone for divisiveness if this is your contribution to the discourse.

[jonb2]

6 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

During the debate, where was the progressive argument for staying in, rather than relying solely on its economic "merits"...

Project fear VS. Harrods Fresh Premium Caviare, Bollinger and Luxury Strawberry Jam tomorrow.

Too many people want to believe what they hear - rather than question it. Just ask Edward Bernays and Goebbels.

[pig]

10 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

During the debate, where was the progressive argument for staying in, rather than relying solely on its economic "merits"...

You mean the argument about cooperating and collaborating with our neighbours, publicly across the board from science to art and privately in our lives, as opposed to  Leavers ranting about muslims comin over 'ere to rape and pillage us from the EU ?

[jonb2]

17 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

If you think there is no legitimate argument against being in the EU then you are a zealot.

When considering something. Do you weigh its pros and cons? Or do you just buy the old Trabant in the corner because the spiv salesman told you it was designed by a top Italian auto design house and has a 600 BHP engine made by Lotus?

Edited September 26, 2021 by jonb2

[thecrashingisles]

Just now, jonb2 said:

When considering something. Do you weigh its pros and cons? Or do you just buy the old Trabant in the corner because the spiv salesman told you it was designed by a top Italian auto design house and has a 600 BHP engine made by Lotus?

Brexit wasn't that kind of decision. It was an existential constitutional question. There was no right or wrong answer.

[OnionTerror]

9 minutes ago, pig said:

It sounds like you want to claim Brexit means we're going to get above inflation pay rises due to screwing up JIT but you aren't offering a logical justification.

We aren't strictly speaking 'moving away' from JIT, we're cutting ourselves off from an enormous JIT inventory. That means imposing limitations on what we can make here competitively and vice versa:  limitations on the suppliers in the UK that the continent will use.

The tendency will (logically) be business owners will either JIT products from whatever is available in the UK (bearing in mind x% of uk suppliers will fold due to losing European contracts)  or they will simply move manufacture to the continent or elsewhere in the world. 

 

You do realise that we've left the single market.. What else do you suggest we do... Feel sorry for ourselves for ever more?  Or actually start becoming proactive?

Edited September 26, 2021 by Dave Beans

[jonb2]

Just now, thecrashingisles said:

Brexit wasn't that kind of decision. It was an existential constitutional question. There was no right or wrong answer.

Ah, I see now. Arcane ideology for the Eton mob. A self-justification and never mind the consequences.

So why did your Tory party have to bribe the electorate with lies?

[jonb2]

4 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

You do realise that we've left the single market.. What else do you suggest we do...

Go down the Karzi ?

Doesn't seem there's a choice does there?

[thecrashingisles]

1 minute ago, jonb2 said:

Ah, I see now. Arcane ideology for the Eton mob. A self-justification and never mind the consequences.

So why did your Tory party have to bribe the electorate with lies?

Have you forgotten that the Tory PM and Chancellor and most of the cabinet campaigned for Remain?

Why did the Labour party vote for a referendum without any scrutiny and then ran a half-hearted campaign in which the leader made lukewarm arguments and gave the EU 7 out of 10?