OnionTerror Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Confusion of VIs said: Not a theory I have ever subscribed to. The French had doubts about accepting us the first time around, suspecting that we only wanted to join to undermine the EEC from inside, they are unlikely to agree to us rejoining any time soon. After the chaos of a hard Brexit, we'll have to go back to the EU (as we are going to have to have a relationship with them, one way or another) which will lead to us becoming a vassal state. It serves us right in our ignorance.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Confusion of VIs said: Not a theory I have ever subscribed to. The French had doubts about accepting us the first time around, suspecting that we only wanted to join to undermine the EEC from inside, they are unlikely to agree to us rejoining any time soon. Had you ever subscribed to it, I would have attributed it to you also. De Gaulle is long dead. But perhaps our gubbermint [politicians & civil servants] (N.B. not 'us') have proved him right - they royally screwed up by pushing for EU EE expansion, then not bothering to think about it any more - or even trying to put some temporary brake - as they could have done. The triumvirate of: 'our' politicians ('who knows or cares how the EU works'), Our civil servants (Sir Humphrey) & the BoE ('stealing the best people from other countries is first mover advantage') inadvertently caused Brexit. None of them wanted it. All of them wanted what has happened to the UK since we joined the Coal & Steel Community. Is it possible that the wishes of the triumvirate were not the best for the people? The result of the most democratic exercise in all of UK history would suggest so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 A hard Brexit is now apparently 50/50.. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/04/theresa-mays-chances-of-striking-irish-border-deal-50-50-say-eu-officials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 10 hours ago, Peter Hun said: Because we defeated, broke-up and impoverished the Russian Empire. Today, Russia is nothing, inconsequential.. to us. GDP one quarter or less of the west (and it was 10% after the end of the Cold War, western oil tech since gave Russia an Oil boom). This is not how it should be in the Russian world view - they perceive themselves as a superpower. And now there is this Russia's Emerging Holy War They took on 20 times the US bank & oil funded forces than the Western Front during WW2 and that's the blog of someone who used to work for the NSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 12 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: After the chaos of a hard Brexit, we'll have to go back to the EU (as we are going to have to have a relationship with them, one way or another) which will lead to us becoming a vassal state. It serves us right in our ignorance.. I'm not sure ignorance is the right word. 'Brexit go home you're drunk' was one of my favourite placards at the march. The 'who' and 'how' is what initially killed Brexit for me. A bit like planning a Christmas lunch in Macdonalds. Aggravating to hear Arron Banks trying to absolve himself of any responsibility.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 17 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: A hard Brexit is now apparently 50/50.. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/04/theresa-mays-chances-of-striking-irish-border-deal-50-50-say-eu-officials Is it b0ll0cks. Its 95% a benign roll over brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Is it b0ll0cks. Its 95% a benign roll over brexit. Unless the UK accepts full regulatory alignment, then it'll be anything but benign.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Just now, Dave Beans said: Unless the UK accepts full regulatory alignment, then it'll be anything but benign.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 21 minutes ago, Dave Beans said: 29 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Is it b0ll0cks. Its 95% a benign roll over brexit. Unless the UK accepts full regulatory alignment, then it'll be anything but benign.. Whispers that May is saying Canada+ is still on the table for the transition discussions. She has to propose something. May takes us out, then the parties can fight about what kind of FTA is tolerable, maybe a vote or GE to confirm it in 2/3 years time. Things will change in April, the EU/27 will go into election huddle for much of 2019 and the UK can begin to adjust, maybe with a new remainer centrist party, good luck to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 3 hours ago, highYield said: Fijians are huge, vertically as well as often horizontally. New Caledonia just had their independence vote, opted to stay with France... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053 French are still big in the Marquesas, Tahiti etc. I associate the French with the Pacific islands, but that's maybe a Gauguin throwback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, thehowler said: New Caledonia just had their independence vote, opted to stay with France... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053 French are still big in the Marquesas, Tahiti etc. I associate the French with the Pacific islands, but that's maybe a Gauguin throwback. Viva New Caledonia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, thehowler said: New Caledonia just had their independence vote, opted to stay with France... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053 French are still big in the Marquesas, Tahiti etc. I associate the French with the Pacific islands, but that's maybe a Gauguin throwback. From your link: Quote The remote islands receive about €1.3bn (£1.1bn; $1.5bn) from the French government every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear.getting.old Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Dave Beans said: After the chaos of a hard Brexit, we'll have to go back to the EU (as we are going to have to have a relationship with them, one way or another) which will lead to us becoming a vassal state. It serves us right in our ignorance.. We don't need to have any relationship with them whatsoever. We will continue to buy their exports and vice versa. If that does not happen, then they the EU, will be the ones who loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehowler Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Viva New Caledonia. The Calvados is on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 10 minutes ago, bear.getting.old said: We don't need to have any relationship with them whatsoever. We will continue to buy their exports and vice versa. If that does not happen, then they the EU, will be the ones who loose. You honestly believe that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said: Err no. You know me better than that. Edited November 4, 2018 by Dave Beans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87044 Quote Sadly though, confusions abound. Another suggestion, recently heard more frequently, is that we should apply to "rejoin" the EEA, to which of course we still belong as members of the EU. The prime minister may have insisted that leaving the EU means that we must also leave the EEA, as if one automatically follows the other. But what she has never shown publicly she is aware of is that to leave the EEA in fact requires a quite separate legal procedure, under Article 127 of the 1994 EEA Agreement, an international treaty between the EEA states and the EU. In theory at least, in order to leave the EEA, we should have to conduct quite separate negotiations with the EEA itself. Says Booker, how ironic it would be if, on leaving the EU, we were to find ourselves still, by default, members of something Mrs May had insisted we must be out of. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Small bands of men in resolution, in absolute determination, giving themselves completely and saying "Europe shall live!" And they stood firm and faced the menace to Europe: its values, its civilizations, the glory of its achievement - all those things in mortal danger. And they stood firm, they faced it, they came together, and more and more ran it to their standards, and those hordes were thrown back. Again and again and again, our Europe lived in triumph because the will of Europe still endured! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 1 hour ago, thehowler said: Whispers that May is saying Canada+ is still on the table for the transition discussions. She has to propose something. May takes us out, then the parties can fight about what kind of FTA is tolerable, maybe a vote or GE to confirm it in 2/3 years time. Things will change in April, the EU/27 will go into election huddle for much of 2019 and the UK can begin to adjust, maybe with a new remainer centrist party, good luck to them. Some crumbs for the ERG (to try a fashion a fig leaf from before voting for the deal) perhaps. It will have no impact on the outcome of the transition discussions, the EU will continue to follow its rules and any pluses will come at a cost that is unacceptable to the ERG. If the WA goes through in anything like its current form they are a busted flush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionTerror Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Some crumbs for the ERG (to try a fashion a fig leaf from before voting for the deal) perhaps. It will have no impact on the outcome of the transition discussions, the EU will continue to follow its rules and any pluses will come at a cost that is unacceptable to the ERG. If the WA goes through in anything like its current form they are a busted flush. Canada plus is also something that the EU would not accept Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, Dave Beans said: Err no. You know me better than that. I’m not having dig at you DB. I just don’t see TM delivering anything other than a soft fudge given her history, a divided party, a divided parliment, and divided nation. Edited November 5, 2018 by GrizzlyDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 8 hours ago, highYield said: From your link: All human relationship must be purchased with money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 9 hours ago, Arpeggio said: They took on 20 times the US bank & oil funded forces than the Western Front during WW2 and that's the blog of someone who used to work for the NSA. Indeed, he really knows what he's talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 12 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said: - if there is a ROI unification, Ireland will be quite isolated from mainland EU. Would that cause issues? There is already plans to beef up port links between RoI and France, by-passing the dead zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 58 minutes ago, Peter Hun said: There is already plans to beef up port links between RoI and France, by-passing the dead zone. What is the dead zone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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