jonb2 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said: That may be, but hard to extricate Rasputin when he has the ear of the Tzar. Nicely put GD. Rasputin was extremely difficult to kill as well. Bankers = fecking vampires = stake through the heart in public view. http://history.howstuffworks.com/history-vs-myth/rasputin2.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 12 hours ago, Digsby said: Are you a flat-earther, too? No, I'll prove it with a question. Who does Carney really work for? I'll wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 15 hours ago, pig said: Because young educated people are Tory and old uneducated people are Lefties lol ? I'm sorry I must have missed your masterful dissection of the "hidden agenda" on this forum. Mostly I have noticed stuff like this. At least Jonb2 is addressing the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 hour ago, pig said: So...let me get this straight....: Brexiters have spent a decade or more blaming the EU for everything. However they think that voting to leave the EU is a great thing as now they won't be able to do that anymore. But ! The problem is now they are worried instead of erroneously blaming the EU for the parlous state of the UK (er which they hadn't realised) and instead of blaming UK politicians Brexiters will flip and blame..... Brexit ! and then agitate to remain/return to the EU under worse terms. Whereopon they'll be back to square one and start blaming the EU. This loonery is clearly all the fault of immigrants. Nope. Our politicians have spent far too much time blaming the EU for everything. We need to make them responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, kzb said: I'm sorry I must have missed your masterful dissection of the "hidden agenda" on this forum. Mostly I have noticed stuff like this. At least Jonb2 is addressing the point. Oh it gets better - apparently the Labour voting urban centres are guilty of foisting prole destroying neoliberalism on the Tory voting provinces. But hey finally those perennial rebels are revolting and running off to Trump for salvation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pig Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 hour ago, highYield said: Nope. Our politicians have spent far too much time blaming the EU for everything. We need to make them responsible. You're now blaming the politicians for Brexiter Blame Everybidy Else-ing lol ? What on earth are you smoking ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 12 minutes ago, pig said: You're now blaming the politicians for Brexiter Blame Everybidy Else-ing lol ? What on earth are you smoking ? Nope. I'm blaming the politicians for the state of the UK. And the current system for them not being held to account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalancedBear Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 5 hours ago, pig said: You're now blaming the politicians for Brexiter Blame Everybidy Else-ing lol ? What on earth are you smoking ? It is a sensible point. Whilst we have been in the EU politicians of all colours have hidden behind the EU when implementing policies the public don't like. When we are out of the EU the buck will stop with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futuroid Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, BalancedBear said: It is a sensible point. Whilst we have been in the EU politicians of all colours have hidden behind the EU when implementing policies the public don't like. When we are out of the EU the buck will stop with them. Nothing sensible about it. Basically what you are saying is we left the EU on a lie, but maybe that will become apparent over time (hooray..) or maybe the same people who refused to take responsibility for their own decisions will simply blame something else, like the UN, NATO, immigrants, climate change, the opposition (very popular that one), the electorate or even in fact, the EU*. (* = They've stared laying the groundwork already). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 22 minutes ago, Futuroid said: Nothing sensible about it. Basically what you are saying is we left the EU on a lie, but maybe that will become apparent over time (hooray..) or maybe the same people who refused to take responsibility for their own decisions will simply blame something else, like the UN, NATO, immigrants, climate change, the opposition (very popular that one), the electorate or even in fact, the EU*. (* = They've stared laying the groundwork already). There was a good quote on that RT site as it happens. "We don't see things as they are, but as we are” - Anaïs Nin That word Lie again. There has to be a deliberate intention to mislead, for it to be a lie. A statement made in good faith, which later turns out not true, is not a lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 28 minutes ago, Futuroid said: Nothing sensible about it. Basically what you are saying is we left the EU on a lie, but maybe that will become apparent over time (hooray..) or maybe the same people who refused to take responsibility for their own decisions will simply blame something else, like the UN, NATO, immigrants, climate change, the opposition (very popular that one), the electorate or even in fact, the EU*. (* = They've stared laying the groundwork already). Except the EU is legally supreme over the UK parliament/talking club. It wasn't us, guv. IMO, we need to make the buck stop with someone we can vote out. Make them responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Digsby Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 8 hours ago, jonb2 said: No, I'll prove it with a question. Who does Carney really work for? I'll wait. When you look out of your window, does the horizon look rounded, or flat? I do not know who Carney really works for, or whether he really works for anybody other than the Bank of England, and neither do you. I can speculate, but that's very different to knowledge. I suspect the answer is himself, like the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 27 minutes ago, Digsby said: When you look out of your window, does the horizon look rounded, or flat? I do not know who Carney really works for, or whether he really works for anybody other than the Bank of England, and neither do you. I can speculate, but that's very different to knowledge. I suspect the answer is himself, like the rest of us. OK, I'll rephrase it for you Digsby: Have all the actions of the BOE suited the man in the street or the elites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 9 hours ago, GrizzlyDave said: GFC part 2. Only a matter of time IMHO (<5 years). Really interesting viewing. Thank you for posting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 58 minutes ago, kzb said: There was a good quote on that RT site as it happens. "We don't see things as they are, but as we are” - Anaïs Nin That word Lie again. There has to be a deliberate intention to mislead, for it to be a lie. A statement made in good faith, which later turns out not true, is not a lie. Good quote. I think the effect worked KZB - whether it's technically a lie or not - it's arguable:https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/quarter-people-voted-brexit-believe-duped-leave-campaign/21/08/ As someone who despises those in the government more than the EU, I think I could fabricate enough inferences to sway people's minds to vote Corbyn. Not that I think I need to. But it's the slight of hand - look over there, there's a car crash, while nicking our wallets I hate. We are all angry, we have all been used and farmed. I hate the idea that we have such greedy, cr*ppy, self-interested w*nkers running things here and the idea they might get away with it. Something's gotta change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 1 hour ago, jonb2 said: Good quote. I think the effect worked KZB - whether it's technically a lie or not - it's arguable:https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/quarter-people-voted-brexit-believe-duped-leave-campaign/21/08/ As someone who despises those in the government more than the EU, I think I could fabricate enough inferences to sway people's minds to vote Corbyn. Not that I think I need to. But it's the slight of hand - look over there, there's a car crash, while nicking our wallets I hate. We are all angry, we have all been used and farmed. I hate the idea that we have such greedy, cr*ppy, self-interested w*nkers running things here and the idea they might get away with it. Something's gotta change. Sorry, can you run that past me again? Are you seriously suggesting that Corby, Abbotpotamus etc. should run the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawitcoming Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 35 minutes ago, Byron said: Sorry, can you run that past me again? Are you seriously suggesting that Corby, Abbotpotamus etc. should run the country? Sorry, can you run that past me again? Are you seriously suggesting that Corby should not run the country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 6 minutes ago, Sawitcoming said: Sorry, can you run that past me again? Are you seriously suggesting that Corby should not run the country? After all those years of Blair and Brown, on this forum they were attacked relentlessly, but you have forgotten. If you think that Corbyn should be elected PM I am speechless. Don't you learn anything from History? The Labour party is useless and always runs the country into debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawitcoming Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Just now, Byron said: After all those years of Blair and Brown, on this forum they were attacked relentlessly, but you have forgotten. If you think that Corbyn should be elected PM I am speechless. Don't you learn anything from History? The Labour party is useless and always runs the country into debt. How does Blair and Brown set a precedent for Corbyn? What was the Conservative contribution to the national debt since blair brown? Who would you recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, highYield said: Really interesting viewing. Thank you for posting them. You are very welcome. Prof Mark Blyth is a bit of a legend IMHO. If you haven't seen this yet, I recommend it: Edited August 22, 2017 by GrizzlyDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 29 minutes ago, Sawitcoming said: How does Blair and Brown set a precedent for Corbyn? What was the Conservative contribution to the national debt since blair brown? Who would you recommend? A Conservative government. Corbyn witters on about austerity when he knows it is a lie. It was the near bankruptcy caused by Blair and Brown. There is no longer any room for left wing delusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkHorseWaits-NoMore Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Oh boy.. Wake me up when we get a left wing gov't in the UK.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawitcoming Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Byron said: A Conservative government. Corbyn witters on about austerity when he knows it is a lie. It was the near bankruptcy caused by Blair and Brown. There is no longer any room for left wing delusions. I hadn't really thought of it like that. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 46 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: You are very welcome. Prof Mark Blyth is a bit of a legend IMHO. If you haven't seen this yet, I recommend it: Superb recommendation IMHO. About to watch it for the second time to try and get a handle on all his ideas/opinions. Think It'll take 3 or 4 times until I can understand his points. We won't be seeing this on the BBC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, highYield said: Superb recommendation IMHO. About to watch it for the second time to try and get a handle on all his ideas/opinions. Think It'll take 3 or 4 times until I can understand his points. We won't be seeing this on the BBC Glad you enjoyed it. There are quite a few of his videos on YouTube where he explores populism, austerity, and too big to fail. He is brilliant at cutting to the heart of an issue, using plain language and transparent logic. He's not a brexiteer, but he understands brexit. I value his perspective immensely. Edited August 22, 2017 by GrizzlyDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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