Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[spyguy]

2 minutes ago, skinnylattej said:

Isn't Infosys linked to the UK chancellor?

FIL.

[Staffsknot]

23 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Any company that allowed Indian 3rd parties access to nay financial info landed themselves in hot water

No only the craply project managed ones did.

Pretty sure this firm is turning billions over and their algos have been used via brokerage access by lots of those UK banks that have to have UK IT or they'll fail. IIRC the system was using Java & 4gl so not Cobol or any other lazy stereotype you want.

In fact most of the settlement systems during the MiFid2 changes were altered by teams involving India and Indian testers as had friend who works at Euroclear.

This is the real world stuff not the gleeful - ISH causes chaos reporting we get.

For info Knight and their algo disaster was done by Westerners.

 

23 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Even if you could get beyond the accent and poor gone lines,

Oof I've met Brits who make ISH staff sound like Lawrence Olivier.

But this is off topic of the Brexit thread so let's leave it their.

Have two Indian work colleagues - mysteriously they have excellent qualis and a drive and commitment a few on grad programmes severely lacked.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Staffsknot

[yelims]

2 hours ago, spyguy said:

IME the companies that work dont use Indian software.

There are actually very very very few Indian outsources that produce software.

Most are business outsources.

There are very very few non Indian companies that use them.

All the orgs I work with, and their suppliers swerve Indian software.

Seriously, its not much of a thing. More a fools option.

 

Spot on, all the good Indian engineers (yes there are good ones) have left India and work in US or Europe on visas and most eventually naturalise.

The culture over there is completely incompatible to producing quality software. My only experience with working with teams from Bangalore is that they are not saving companies money but are an actual drain, negative value. Hell a whole section of them didn’t want to automate tests and wanted run manual tests every day, myself and an intern automated the tests result was me getting a bonus for testing happening in minutes not days, bugs being caught earlier, intern becoming a permanent eng with invaluable experience and about dozen people in India being told to either get cracking on test automation or start looking job elsewhere. I left that co later as their competitor had an automate everything, everything as code mindset. Last I checked they went bankrupt by not innovating quickly enough. Indian it is like dark matter of the it universe.

the productivity drain of Indian IT is incredible, no wonder the best and brightest get hell out of there.

Edited July 26, 2021 by yelims

[pig]

10 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

What is so funny is that Brexit is done, it must be vindicated sounds awfully like the myopic pseudo-religious dogma tag he's throwing at remain folk.

The cost doesn't matter, the ends justify the means, Brexit is inviolable - but tge EU is evil if it thinks its SM must be protected at all cost and is inviolable.

What do I know I was apparently blinded by hatred of Tories and Brexit apparently and only hear the siren call of the EU. That thing he wanted to stay in... maybe its like football teams and you have to swop sides to support the one that seems to be winning the league...

He's now playing the Judean Peoples Front yelling 'splitters!' at anybody whose mind does not comply with  Brexiter rubbish. Poor soul 

In the mean time we're going round the world with a begging bowl for trade deals to dig us out of a hole, riling up NI again and demanding the EU to sort it out for us and the governing party is trying to hold it all together through dog-whistling nasties and flag waving.

On the bright side, as I keep on pointing out, there is suddenly this incredible opportunity a few miles away... 

 

 

 

 

 

[yelims]

47 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

 

Have two Indian work colleagues - mysteriously they have excellent qualis and a drive and commitment a few on grad programmes severely lacked.

Spot on some seriously talented and ambitious engineers (including my current and past team) who get shit done, unfortunately they are rare but very clearly stand out and get hell out of India, I’ve done hundreds of interviews maybe 2/3rds are Indian trying to emigrate on stamp4 visa, most are shockingly bad (as in how do I politely end this interview after 10 minutes bad)

Any company that has teams in India is a company I would avoid like the plague, literally productivity black holes that can drag a company into bankruptcy 

Anyways back to Brexit has the last remaining (ha!) Brexiteer on thread squared the Will of the people circle?

Edited July 26, 2021 by yelims

[slawek]

That is funny. The guy liked this post. Better late than never. 

 

[Staffsknot]

34 minutes ago, yelims said:

Spot on, all the good Indian engineers (yes there are good ones) have left India and work in US or Europe on visas and most eventually naturalise.

The culture over there is completely incompatible to producing quality software. My only experience with working with teams from Bangalore is that they are not saving companies money but are an actual drain, negative value. Hell a whole section of them didn’t want to automate tests and wanted run manual tests every day, myself and an intern automated the tests result was me getting a bonus for testing happening in minutes not days, bugs being caught earlier, intern becoming a permanent eng with invaluable experience and about dozen people in India being told to either get cracking on test automation or start looking job elsewhere. I left that co later as their competitor had an automate everything, everything as code mindset. Last I checked they went bankrupt by not innovating quickly enough. Indian it is like dark matter of the it universe.

the productivity drain of Indian IT is incredible, no wonder the best and brightest get hell out of there.

Just put the complete opposite experience above.

There are sh!t companies of all nationalities and looks like found one.

Most 24/7 trading outfits have ISH involved. If you go to India looking for the cheapest you find crap. Much same as over here.

As I say there are folks running around in London demanding 100k that aren't qualified to operate more than a Costa coffee machine.

What invariably happens is PM & management is in UK, coders or testers in India. Lots of nodding in meetings

Funnily enough I was on an email chain where an ISH queried some response they were getting. It had been dismissed as an ISH not getting it. They actually had spotted someone had included a FIX ( financial messaging) value from an older version as an allowable option when it had been replaced. When investigated there was local datadictionary allowing any value in and zero versioning to say who or why - luckily just in test sys - thankfully I'm not at that company. That's the unthinking stereotype ISH catching a bug introduced by the dilligent hard working superior coding western team...

Also many of the Java and C++ books and certification courses are now written by those Indian coders that are so inferior. Mala Gupta is prime example and is key in JetBrains - an international team with many folks in India.

You have to be dilligent as they have to get over IT's ten thousand references to Monty Python, National Lampoons & The Blues Brothers.

Feel your pain on interviews as once had a guy describe his fantasy roleplay hobby in an interview and I asked HR if we could have a button that sounded a buzzer to ask them to leave in future. Zzz your time is up. 

Edit: don't be downhearted if you are feeling like you are one of few working nuts off as there a loads of hard working folk but lots of dross who float from company to company getting glowing ref if they agree to eff off and not discuss their eff ups.

But as you say back you Brexit

Edited July 26, 2021 by Staffsknot

[yelims]

2 minutes ago, Staffsknot said:

Just put the complete opposite experience above.

There are sh!t companies of all nationalities and looks like found one.

Most 24/7 trading outfits have ISH involved. If you go to India looking for the cheapest you find crap. Much same as over here.

As I say there are folks running around in London demanding 100k that aren't qualified to operate more than a Costa coffee machine.

What invariably happens is PM & management is in UK, coders or testers in India. Lots of nodding in meetings

Funnily enough I was on an email chain where an ISH queried some response they were getting. It had been dismissed as an ISH not getting it. They actually had spotted someone had included a FIX ( financial messaging) value from an older version as an allowable option when it had been replaced. When investigated there was local datadictionary allowing any value in and zero versioning to say who or why - luckily just in test sys - thankfully I'm not at that company. That's the unthinking stereotype ISH catching a bug introduced by the dilligent hard working superior coding western team...

Also many of the Java and C++ books and certification courses are now written by those Indian coders that are so inferior. Mala Gupta is prime example and is key in JetBrains - an international team with many folks in India.

You have to be dilligent as they have to get over IT's ten thousand references to Monty Python, National Lampoons & The Blues Brothers.

But as you say back you Brexit

I actually agree with you and would hate to stereotype on anecdotal evidence, if only there was an easy way to grade talent on a bell curve and contrast and compare these, would have saved me hundreds of hours of interviews.

 

[dugsbody]

11 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

Do you accept that the kind of embittered people you describe are increasingly turning themselves into a laughing stock, with their comical determination to talk down the UK and their irrational allegiance to the EU? Such people are politically irrelevant.

No, I don't accept that. I think that it is a convenient narrative for you to believe because you've turned tail and fallen for the nativism.

You argued many times on this thread on the pro-remain side  that people were not being honest on the leave side. But as a good Tory, you've followed the party wishes and wiped that memory away.

Europhobes spent 40 ******ing years whinging and telling lies about the EU. You've got some nerve to turn around and tell people who believe they were robbed by liars to just "suck it up".

Never going to happen, get used to it. We had to.

 

[Staffsknot]

1 minute ago, yelims said:

I actually agree with you and would hate to stereotype on anecdotal evidence, if only there was an easy way to grade talent on a bell curve and contrast and compare these, would have saved me hundreds of hours of interviews.

 

Yeah but you'd have less stories to tell and HR wouldn't look at you as superheroes beecause you aren't a propellerhead who needs velcro shoes 😉

[dugsbody]

11 hours ago, Staffsknot said:

What is so funny is that Brexit is done, it must be vindicated sounds awfully like the myopic pseudo-religious dogma tag he's throwing at remain folk.

That post of @thecrashingisles really stood out for me. It was quite revealing.

I'll never see eye to eye with someone who puts country above truth.

[dugsbody]

20 minutes ago, slawek said:

That is funny. The guy liked this post. Better late than never. 

 

Dominic Cummings knows what he did. He knows that his tactics were dishonest and now he is desparately trying to salvage his historical image. Sorry Dominic, too late. No-one is buying your latest blog post nonsense.

(Well, that's not true, the liars are buying it, but they're liars, so you'd expect that)

[yelims]

Just now, Staffsknot said:

Yeah but you'd have less stories to tell and HR wouldn't look at you as superheroes beecause you aren't a propellerhead who needs velcro shoes 😉

Speaking of stories a very good Indian origin engineer /hiring manager on parallel team simply refuses to interview anyone from subcontinent, not sure how he gets away with that. It’s a mistake as I think as there are good candidates just unfortunately rare to proportion of interviews one has to do. I think I’ve narrowed down a good interview process starting of with absolute basics like what you think of these 10 lines of code.

[slawek]

14 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Dominic Cummings knows what he did. He knows that his tactics were dishonest and now he is desparately trying to salvage his historical image. Sorry Dominic, too late. No-one is buying your latest blog post nonsense.

(Well, that's not true, the liars are buying it, but they're liars, so you'd expect that)

My impression is he is childish, curious, a fake intellectual, love some new crazy ideas, in love with himself, manipulative. A kind of Trump but instead of being driven by money his desire is to be perceived as clever.

As for Brexit he got involved to shake the boat but he now realised that the bunch of people who got in power are even more useless than the previous one.     

Edited July 26, 2021 by slawek

[yelims]

14 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Dominic Cummings knows what he did. He knows that his tactics were dishonest and now he is desparately trying to salvage his historical image. Sorry Dominic, too late. No-one is buying your latest blog post nonsense.

(Well, that's not true, the liars are buying it, but they're liars, so you'd expect that)

He is literally thinks of himself as a modern day Lenin revolutionary  tho instead of Germans sending Lenin to Russia to cause shit (and boy did he cause trouble for 70 years) this time around its the Russians sending Cummings from Russia back to UK after kgb boys trained him to infect UK with the same illiberal oligarchic dystopian virus, and I guess he accomplished that with Brexit, except now he got purged by a truly incompetent Boris the Donkey 

It be funny if it wasn’t so tragic for Britain 

Why kill people with polonium and novichok when you can take down a country with a useful idiot injected into correct place and time.

Edited July 26, 2021 by yelims

[Staffsknot]

19 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

That post of @thecrashingisles really stood out for me. It was quite revealing.

I'll never see eye to eye with someone who puts country above truth.

Ironically the term vindicated can be used for avenged or punished as well as to prove right and gives rise to vindictive.

The old latin that led to vindicator was both legal liberator and used for avenger / punisher. Bit of a slip there from the man who jumps on typos as a delimiter of credibility.

[slawek]

26 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

That post of @thecrashingisles really stood out for me. It was quite revealing.

I'll never see eye to eye with someone who puts country above truth.

As they say "nationalism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

[jonb2]

12 hours ago, thecrashingisles said:

Do you accept that the kind of embittered people you describe are increasingly turning themselves into a laughing stock, with their comical determination to talk down the UK and their irrational allegiance to the EU? Such people are politically irrelevant.

So half the country is irrelevant?

... and you say we live in a democracy?

It's fecking banana republic politics. It takes effort to maintain a democracy - a word missing from your government's dictionary. Far easier to divide and rule and dig deep into taxpayers pockets for self-enrichment.

[pig]

54 minutes ago, yelims said:

He is literally thinks of himself as a modern day Lenin revolutionary  tho instead of Germans sending Lenin to Russia to cause shit (and boy did he cause trouble for 70 years) this time around its the Russians sending Cummings from Russia back to UK after kgb boys trained him to infect UK with the same illiberal oligarchic dystopian virus, and I guess he accomplished that with Brexit, except now he got purged by a truly incompetent Boris the Donkey 

It be funny if it wasn’t so tragic for Britain 

Why kill people with polonium and novichok when you can take down a country with a useful idiot injected into correct place and time.

Actually there is an interesting parallel there in that a significant uk political constituency is being groomed to nurse a constant sense of injured nationalism. Attacking Ukraine was a means for Putin to boost popularity at home, similarly we are happy to make a mess of NI so long as the fall out keeps the Conservative's grip on their base.

[yelims]

Arlene Foster was on GB news lately saying that the plan with Johnson was that the NIP was always only a temporary thing, to get Brexit done. Cummings has pretty much said the same thing.

So Johnson has tied a weight around the UK neck on the basis that he had his fingers crossed the whole time.

So the only person messing about with NI is clearly Johnson. The EU saw this agreement as the solution to a problem created by the UK, and have now found that the 'solution' was nothing more than a stroke pulled by the UK.

It is quite the price to pay to 'get Brexit done'. Internationally seen poorly, although apart from the US I don't see it as a major impediment to future trade deals. Though it will likely mean that trade deals are either much smaller in scope or come with much tougher (read less beneficial to the UK) conditions as everyone would want clauses to protect from buccaneering Tories. He also agreed the finance settlement, for what again could be little more than a few months or extra transition.

I really do not understand why the UK populace is not more agitated about the clear failure on Johnsons part. I know the media are working hard to cover for him, but even Brexiteers must acknowledge that Johnson has made a bad situation even worse.

The EU are not going to be in any rush to 'save' Johnson at this point. To save the UK. They will be asking that the protocol be implemented and then they deal with the issues as they arise. Simply claiming that the conditions have been met to trigger A16 is not enough, there must be clear evidence. And many do not seem to understand that A16 does not rip up the agreement, it is a way to deal with specific issues in a collaborative manner. It might temporarily help to overcome some limited and specific issue, but is in no way designed to suspend the entire agreement.

The NIP was agreed on the basis that a comprehensive trade deal would be agreed, one that would render many of the probable issues as irrelevant. SPS alignment being one area. But Johnson, having agreed the NIP, then went on to sign a very thin deal and as such is left facing the issues he is.

[thecrashingisles]

2 hours ago, dugsbody said:

No, I don't accept that. I think that it is a convenient narrative for you to believe because you've turned tail and fallen for the nativism.

You argued many times on this thread on the pro-remain side  that people were not being honest on the leave side. But as a good Tory, you've followed the party wishes and wiped that memory away.

Europhobes spent 40 ******ing years whinging and telling lies about the EU. You've got some nerve to turn around and tell people who believe they were robbed by liars to just "suck it up".

Never going to happen, get used to it. We had to.

I'm not a Tory; I'm just alienated by hysterical hatred of the Tories. Looking back, it was probably when Boris Johnson became PM that the Remain movement collectively lost its mind.

People like Femi started out by confronting Nigel Farage in a good-humoured way and now rant constantly about how every single Tory MP is a fascist. It's just ridiculous.

[thecrashingisles]

5 hours ago, Bob8 said:

Ireland does not need to be kicked out of the EU, and clearly has no intention of leaving.

You used to see the impossibility of all three of:
- Leaving the SU/CM
- Maintaining the GFA
- Maintaining the integrity of the UK,

This would have been apparent to you.

As  man who is apparently informed, may I ask what was the issue the issue that made you decide that brexit was not just necessary for democratic credibility, but desirous in itself?

...you now think these self-contradcting things are possible. This is not dogma, it is clear reality. I would be interested in what changed? The only people I know who had this conversion are loyal Tories who changed their mind in alignment with their party. I assume this was not the case with you?

This style of repetitive posting you've developed isn't working.

How would you describe the situation as it is now, with the protocol not fully implemented?

[thecrashingisles]

1 hour ago, jonb2 said:

So half the country is irrelevant?

... and you say we live in a democracy?

It's fecking banana republic politics. It takes effort to maintain a democracy - a word missing from your government's dictionary. Far easier to divide and rule and dig deep into taxpayers pockets for self-enrichment.

No, the people I'm describing do not constitute anything like half the country.

[wighty]

2 hours ago, yelims said:

He is literally thinks of himself as a modern day Lenin revolutionary  tho instead of Germans sending Lenin to Russia to cause shit (and boy did he cause trouble for 70 years) this time around its the Russians sending Cummings from Russia back to UK after kgb boys trained him to infect UK with the same illiberal oligarchic dystopian virus, and I guess he accomplished that with Brexit, except now he got purged by a truly incompetent Boris the Donkey 

It be funny if it wasn’t so tragic for Britain 

Why kill people with polonium and novichok when you can take down a country with a useful idiot injected into correct place and time.

Haha good one, Smiley.

[yelims]

46 minutes ago, thecrashingisles said:

This style of repetitive posting you've developed isn't working.

How would you describe the situation as it is now, with the protocol not fully implemented?

Find an answer yet as to why you think the democratic mandate (aka will of the people) is ok with being trampled on?

 

Do you think results of the advisory Brexit referendum should have been ignored too?