2buyornot2buy Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, yelims said: In Ireland we had a monumental crash 10 years ago, something like 10% GDP drop, House prices crashed 50% or more, only reaching previous levels now While house prices were cheaper it was a terrible time for the country and its people, with many emigrating to find better opportunities. I would not wish it on my worst enemy to relive the Great Recession for sake of cheaper housing, what those hoping for a house price crash miss, is that there be less jobs to go around and wage cuts, severe public service cuts (we do not have a NHS but a real cluster****** called HSE), so getting that cheaper house would not be any easier (unless you are somehow insulated from local economy) Not my experience living in Ireland I must say. It was a necessary correction. Every man and their dog thought they were a property developer. Edited October 12, 2018 by 2buyornot2buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macca13 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 We import 65% of our food in the UK.. our population is going up due to open boarders.. (was declining before immigration) The planet is in trouble according to nearly all scientists.. Yet remain voters still want open boarders.. ? Even Trumps scientists now say global warming is real and we are in big trouble.. but let’s all worry about the economy and money.. because that’s what got us in this mess in the first place! https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/health-science/trump-administration-sees-a-7-degree-rise-in-global-temperatures-by-2100/2018/09/27/b9c6fada-bb45-11e8-bdc0-90f81cc58c5d_story.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, macca13 said: We import 65% of our food in the UK.. our population is going up due to open boarders.. (was declining before immigration) The planet is in trouble according to nearly all scientists.. Yet remain voters still want open boarders.. ? Even Trumps scientists now say global warming is real and we are in big trouble.. but let’s all worry about the economy and money.. because that’s what got us in this mess in the first place! https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/health-science/trump-administration-sees-a-7-degree-rise-in-global-temperatures-by-2100/2018/09/27/b9c6fada-bb45-11e8-bdc0-90f81cc58c5d_story.html Global warming could be halved if Trump stopped talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 14 minutes ago, macca13 said: We import 65% of our food in the UK.. our population is going up due to open boarders.. (was declining before immigration) The planet is in trouble according to nearly all scientists.. Yet remain voters still want open boarders.. ? Even Trumps scientists now say global warming is real and we are in big trouble.. but let’s all worry about the economy and money.. because that’s what got us in this mess in the first place! https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/health-science/trump-administration-sees-a-7-degree-rise-in-global-temperatures-by-2100/2018/09/27/b9c6fada-bb45-11e8-bdc0-90f81cc58c5d_story.html We did this here a couple of days ago. Wine and other produce will be shipped from the literal other side of the world post Brexit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, 2buyornot2buy said: Not my experience living in Ireland I must say. It was a necessary correction. Every man and their dog thought they were a property developer. It wasnt a self imposed "correction" like Brexit is, UK does not have to go thry a similar experience, Ireland had no choice. It was not a fun time for most people here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, HairyOb1 said: No, I don't, you've said that, I think things are completely shit. However, what I don't think is a great idea is to screw these folk over just that little bit more. You forget the of touted point that the proles voted for brexit and it wasn’t for red bus fantasies. It was go rock shit up. More of the same. Why the feck would they vote for more of the same! Brexit gives the opportunity for a different future. It’s a hammer - it’s go If go smash stuff up. But things need breaking and starting over. twitter isn’t going to change the UK! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 9 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: You forget the of touted point that the proles voted for brexit and it wasn’t for red bus fantasies. It was go rock shit up. More of the same. Why the feck would they vote for more of the same! Brexit gives the opportunity for a different future. It’s a hammer - it’s go If go smash stuff up. But things need breaking and starting over. twitter isn’t going to change the UK! I think, and I am being genuine here, that it was a protest vote, that no one expected to win. That's my initial take. Now, I think you've probably got two leave camps: the "I don't care what happens, get on with it, whatever the cost", and the "I don't genuinely care now, whether we stay or leave" camps. In all fairness, we probably have the same two camps on remain too. I think the extremists on both sides are relatively small groups. So we have a massive middle ground who don't really give two hoots if we now leave or stay. Brexit could tie the opportunity for a clean slate, but that's not what is being prepared, BRINO is being prepared and it suits no one; it a solution nobody wanted. However, for the middle ground, it would accomplish something. Why the continued suggestion twitter isn't going to do anything? Twitter can be a vacuum chamber to be honest, as you only tend to follow people you want to follow, or people you want to see trip up, so in a way, I agree with you. But there are experts on there who are worth following, who put out information you wouldn't normally not get. There are great journalists on there too, and also, if you're bright, you can see supposedly non biased folk being biased, like AF Nell, who is as right wing as anyone, yet portrays himself as balanced. On twitter, I kind of agree and disagree with your point, confusingly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Interesting: No-deal Brexit would wipe out deals that deliver 12% of the UK’s total trade, government admits Existing agreements that deliver 12 per cent of the UK’s total trade will be lost if there is a no-deal Brexit, the government has admitted. Trade agreements enjoyed with scores of other countries, through EU membership, will “cease to apply” if the UK crashes out of the EU next March. The government said it would attempt to replicate the deals “as soon as possible thereafter” – but admitted those “third countries” would have leverage to demand better terms. The admission came as the department for exiting the European Union (DExEU) released the final batch of technical papers, to prepare the public and businesses for a chaotic Brexit The British Chamber of Commerce reacted immediately, urging the UK and EU to break the deadlock “as soon as possible, to avoid the confusion and significant disruption of a no deal scenario”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 28 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: You forget the of touted point that the proles voted for brexit and it wasn’t for red bus fantasies. It was go rock shit up. More of the same. Why the feck would they vote for more of the same! Brexit gives the opportunity for a different future. It’s a hammer - it’s go If go smash stuff up. But things need breaking and starting over. twitter isn’t going to change the UK! This is your want from Brexit. Unless you can prove otherwise, I would say that nobody on the leave side thought they were going to get less than nought out of it. Which is where we are. More change for better would have been achieved by just voting Labour at the next election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 5 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: Interesting: No-deal Brexit would wipe out deals that deliver 12% of the UK’s total trade, government admits Existing agreements that deliver 12 per cent of the UK’s total trade will be lost if there is a no-deal Brexit, the government has admitted. Trade agreements enjoyed with scores of other countries, through EU membership, will “cease to apply” if the UK crashes out of the EU next March. The government said it would attempt to replicate the deals “as soon as possible thereafter” – but admitted those “third countries” would have leverage to demand better terms. The admission came as the department for exiting the European Union (DExEU) released the final batch of technical papers, to prepare the public and businesses for a chaotic Brexit The British Chamber of Commerce reacted immediately, urging the UK and EU to break the deadlock “as soon as possible, to avoid the confusion and significant disruption of a no deal scenario”. I don't believe that. We will have no trade deals in place to the tune of 55% in the case of a no-deal. From what I understand, WTO cannot be switched on immediately. I think it's more likely to be nearer 20-40% for the first few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 minute ago, jonb2 said: I don't believe that. We will have no trade deals in place to the tune of 55% in the case of a no-deal. From what I understand, WTO cannot be switched on immediately. I think it's more likely to be nearer 20-40% for the first few months. Well natch anything the government says you've got to multiply it by 4 then ^ 3.14159265 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, jonb2 said: I don't believe that. We will have no trade deals in place to the tune of 55% in the case of a no-deal. From what I understand, WTO cannot be switched on immediately. I think it's more likely to be nearer 20-40% for the first few months. There's no defaulting just onto WTO rules like Rees-Mogg has been saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonb2 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 minute ago, smash said: There's no defaulting just onto WTO rules like Rees-Mogg has been saying? AFAIK - You've got the transfer period to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlooker Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, yelims said: Yeh tell me about those "blood red lines" drawn across this island You know, you shouldn't live in the distant past. Modern countries fix their eyes on the future. Obviously if you think old scores should be settled, you would agree we can send a big invoice to Germany, like the Poles have just done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I think it’s fair to say brexit is a vote against more of the same tulip. Call it a protest, a rock the kasbah, a vote for freedom, sovereignty. It’s all the same to me a rejection of the status quo. A rejection of elites telling people they’ve never had it so good. Have your cake and eat it? They used to say let them eat cake! Same shit different smell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, onlooker said: You know, you shouldn't live in the distant past. Modern countries fix their eyes on the future. Obviously if you think old scores should be settled, you would agree we can send a big invoice to Germany, like the Poles have just done. And then Germany can then send the British one too, although we have apologised about Dresden.... Lets not dredge up shit like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelims Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, onlooker said: You know, you shouldn't live in the distant past. Modern countries fix their eyes on the future. Obviously if you think old scores should be settled, you would agree we can send a big invoice to Germany, like the Poles have just done. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/11/dup-blood-red-line-theresa-may-arlene-foster tell that to DUP thats their quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, yelims said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/11/dup-blood-red-line-theresa-may-arlene-foster tell that to DUP thats their quote Imho there’s nothing wrong with the quote and don’t see any connection to the past. It’s a figure of speech - signed in blood - it’s the same thing. Strength of conviction, a blood bond, a personal seal and declaration of intent. You’re looking for something that isn’t there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, HairyOb1 said: And then Germany can then send the British one too, although we have apologised about Dresden.... Lets not dredge up shit like this. My grandad bombed Dresden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlooker Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said: My grandad bombed Dresden. But we never billed them for all the airmen who had to die, and families ruined, while ridding the continent of Nazism. And the death toll was very high among our airmen. We never billed for WW1 either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlooker Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 1 hour ago, yelims said: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/11/dup-blood-red-line-theresa-may-arlene-foster tell that to DUP thats their quote I seem to remember a quote along the lines of 'They haven't gone away, you know'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, onlooker said: But we never billed them for all the airmen who had to die, and families ruined, while ridding the continent of Nazism. And the death toll was very high among our airmen. We never billed for WW1 either. They never billed us either, it was called War. 1 hour ago, GrizzlyDave said: My grandad bombed Dresden. I hope he wasn't very proud of that. Still considered a war crime. It was called terror bombing at the time, and even Churchill queried the bombing of an area mostly full of refugees fleeing the war.Churchill: The destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of Allied bombing.....I feel the need for more precise concentration upon military objectives such as oil and communications behind the immediate battle-zone, rather than on mere acts of terror and wanton destruction Edited October 12, 2018 by HairyOb1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrizzlyDave Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, onlooker said: But we never billed them for all the airmen who had to die, and families ruined, while ridding the continent of Nazism. And the death toll was very high among our airmen. We never billed for WW1 either. Not only did we not ‘bill’ Germany after the war, we rebuilt it and defended it after the war. What debt exactly do you think the UK owes Germany - I’m all ears. He was very proud of his service during the war, as am I. Dresden was like Hiroshima - effective but brutal. Edited October 12, 2018 by GrizzlyDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, GrizzlyDave said: Not only did we not ‘bill’ Germany after the war, we rebuilt it and defended it after the war. What debt exactly do you think the UK owes Germany - I’m all ears. The Americans mostly paid for us and the Germans to be rebuilt after the war. We only defended it as we forbid it an army, like the Japanese as part of the armistice - You can't forbid a country from having an army and then sledge it for putting your own forces there. I can assure you, the Germans would have been mighty happy without around 200 armed force bases around West Germany, and even then it was mostly a western device to protect themselves against the Soviet block expanding. You need to look into shit like this a bit more before commenting Dave - We didn't have a pot to piss in post war. The only time the UK rebuilt anything German was in the early 80's when Maggies polices forced most of the north to work in Germany on construction projects (self funded by the way). Edited October 12, 2018 by HairyOb1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairyOb1 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Look at the Postdam agreement, and Morgenthau plan: Post war German prisoners of war were effectively used as slaves in post war Germany by the allies and USSR. Most factories were destroyed and they were only allowed light industry as part of the Potsdam agreement. The US stole most German technologies at the time (and some of ours in all fairness) in "intellectual reparations" worth an estimated £200bn today. Then came the Marshall plan which was for all of Western Europe, not just Germany, in fact we stopped paying out bit about 15 years ago from memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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