Brexit What Happens Next Thread ---multiple merged threads.

[kzb]

42 minutes ago, pig said:

 

That’s almost exactly the angle Farage took that made my skin crawl.

 

I guess nothing is ruled out of course, Moon landings could be fake,, all the same deeply fascinating if not telling the direction, (misdirection!) people’s strenuous attempts at rationalising events like this.

By the way I wasn’t talking about Russia’s military attack on us but their poisoned political/dirty money vampire squid activities 

.

 

That seems to be the difference between us.  Skeptical questioning of certain issues makes your skin crawl but it is absolutely basic to my outlook on things.

We have to prove that the poisoning was an official Russian state attack before we act (by not playing football or whatever :))

Dirty money -we've got it all.

 

[HairyOb1]

1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Not my post.

Apologies, I git that wrong.

[kzb]

Some people were asking about that Spiders Web TV programme.  It is on again on 2100 Thursday (15 March),  Together channel (Freeview ch 93).  According to my TV guide anyhow.

[jonb2]

11 minutes ago, kzb said:

That seems to be the difference between us.  Skeptical questioning of certain issues makes your skin crawl but it is absolutely basic to my outlook on things.

We have to prove that the poisoning was an official Russian state attack before we act (by not playing football or whatever :))

Dirty money -we've got it all.

 

I really don't think the Tories will do much, after all they love the shiny stuff and stuffing their fat cochon mouths with it

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/12/tory-links-russia-saudi-links-corbyn-spy-extremism

 

Whatever you might think about Corbyn's response - he was the only one to ask about the money

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/corbyn-russia-sergei-skripal-money-laundering-magnitsky-act-understands-foreign-policy-a8253446.html

 

We're effectively at war with Russia. RT (I watch it) is mainly for the gullible. Putin is the world's expert at propaganda - there's not been anybody as good since Goebbels. Remember him?

https://news.sky.com/story/spy-poisoning-novichok-inventor-says-hundreds-could-be-at-risk-for-years-11287880

 

... and you would have believed lord Haw-Haw in the last war and don't forget the right wing here appeased Hitler. They were great fans, like you are of Putin.

[jonb2]

2 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

I have thought about this, but will we not have to adhere to EU rules and regs during any transition phase?  They can't hide can they.

Just look at the Brexit pushers in charge. Not one of them is interested in the people of this country. Just filling their pockets.

Tax evasion (let's call it what it is - feck avoidance), asset-stripping and deregulation is the destination. They can't have their rainbow's pot of gold while the EU is breathing down their neck.

[Confusion of VIs]

10 minutes ago, kzb said:

That seems to be the difference between us.  Skeptical questioning of certain issues makes your skin crawl but it is absolutely basic to my outlook on things.

We have to prove that the poisoning was an official Russian state attack before we act (by not playing football or whatever :))

Dirty money -we've got it all.

 

You might think you are a skeptical questioner but on this, and previously other topics, I see someone who will jump through the most difficult of mental hoops to avoid reaching the most likely and strongly supported conclusion when it conflicts with your preconceived views. 

Saying we have to prove guilt before we can act is an example of this, you know full well that Russia will not cooperate with any investigation so proof will not be forthcoming.

Of course once you don your tfh, and go down the conspiracy route, if what would normally pass as proof was provided this would only be further evidence of the scale of the conspiracy.    

[ccc]

19 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

You might think you are a skeptical questioner but on this, and previously other topics, I see someone who will jump through the most difficult of mental hoops to avoid reaching the most likely and strongly supported conclusion when it conflicts with your preconceived views. 

Saying we have to prove guilt before we can act is an example of this, you know full well that Russia will not cooperate with any investigation so proof will not be forthcoming.

Of course once you don your tfh, and go down the conspiracy route, if what would normally pass as proof was provided this would only be further evidence of the scale of the conspiracy.    

Oh come on. You honestly think what we are being told by the UK Government is remotely close to the truth on this one ?

We have already ******ed up by demanding an answer within 24 hours when international agreement states 10 days to investigate. Of all people I would think you would be a stickler and supportive to that

So whether the Russians are behind this or not. We already look like idiots who have jumped the gun. As for the general handling of it. Its like a poor Carry on film.

[ccc]

44 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Just look at the Brexit pushers in charge. Not one of them is interested in the people of this country. Just filling their pockets.

Tax evasion (let's call it what it is - feck avoidance), asset-stripping and deregulation is the destination. They can't have their rainbow's pot of gold while the EU is breathing down their neck.

 

23 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

You might think you are a skeptical questioner but on this, and previously other topics, I see someone who will jump through the most difficult of mental hoops to avoid reaching the most likely and strongly supported conclusion when it conflicts with your preconceived views. 

Saying we have to prove guilt before we can act is an example of this, you know full well that Russia will not cooperate with any investigation so proof will not be forthcoming.

Of course once you don your tfh, and go down the conspiracy route, if what would normally pass as proof was provided this would only be further evidence of the scale of the conspiracy.    

So why haven't you bothered to comment on the above conspiracy ? Because its from a fellow Remainer ? Don't want to say you disagree with them....

Even though its clearly ridiculous as not only is our PM a staunch remainer - but every single major political party in the run up to the referendum was too.

Its one of the most ridiculous conspiracies going. All the major political parties who campaigned against Brexit actually wanted it and are now delighted that their cunning conspiracy plan came to fruition.

[jonb2]

18 minutes ago, ccc said:

 

So why haven't you bothered to comment on the above conspiracy ? Because its from a fellow Remainer ? Don't want to say you disagree with them....

Even though its clearly ridiculous as not only is our PM a staunch remainer - but every single major political party in the run up to the referendum was too.

Its one of the most ridiculous conspiracies going. All the major political parties who campaigned against Brexit actually wanted it and are now delighted that their cunning conspiracy plan came to fruition.

Which conspiracy CCC?

If it's the one that WE poisoned him - then I suggest you read my posts from the last few pages. I work with Russians. Have Russian and Ukrainian friends too.

Some macho types support Putin, the more humane ones don't. They despise him and know him for what he is. A despot obsessed with money and power - willing to do ANYTHING to maintain it. Another politico not for the people, but for his pig appetite.

 

Or are you talking about Brexit?

If so, I have given a long list of people behind it and why they want it. Mainly lead by the right wing press barons, of whom the Tories are terrified.

https://circusbuoy.wordpress.com/2017/07/14/why-tax-avoiding-billionaires-want-britain-outside-the-eu/

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2018/02/the-persuasive-power-of-uk-right-wing.html

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2016/06/23/secret-billionaires-behind-eu-referendum-propaganda/

https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/5ge5pq/whats-behind-the-pro-brexit-stance-of-the-british-press

 

Tell me again. What are the advantages of Brexit? I've not seen any that can come true like a faerie's wish.

 

Edited March 14, 2018 by jonb2

[Unexpected]

2 hours ago, pig said:

 

That’s almost exactly the angle Farage took that made my skin crawl.

 

I guess nothing is ruled out of course, Moon landings could be fake,, all the same deeply fascinating if not telling the direction, (misdirection!) people’s strenuous attempts at rationalising events like this.

By the way I wasn’t talking about Russia’s military attack on us but their poisoned political/dirty money vampire squid activities 

.

 

 

https://journal-neo.org/2018/03/09/the-skripal-incident-another-anti-russian-provocation/

Sir Edward Leigh, a member of the Parliamentary Defence Committee, in the British Parliament stated, “the circumstantial evidence against Russia is very strong. Who else would have the motive and the means?” The answer to that of course is that the British government has the motive and the means. What would Russia benefit from harming a has-been like Skripal and causing all this fuss? None. What benefit does Britain have and NATO? The answer again is provided by Sir Richard who went on to state “The only way to preserve peace is through strength,” carefully echoing Trump’s foreign policy. He continued, “and if Russia is behind this, this is a brazen act of war, of humiliating our country and defence is the first duty and spending 2% of the budget on defence is not enough.” There is the motive right there. To justify an increase on defence spending and to hit Russia yet again with propaganda warfare to justify NATO’s continuing aggression against Russia.
https://journal-neo.org/2018/03/09/the-skripal-incident-another-anti-russian-provocation/

[jonb2]

2 minutes ago, Unexpected said:

 

https://journal-neo.org/2018/03/09/the-skripal-incident-another-anti-russian-provocation/

Sir Edward Leigh, a member of the Parliamentary Defence Committee, in the British Parliament stated, “the circumstantial evidence against Russia is very strong. Who else would have the motive and the means?” The answer to that of course is that the British government has the motive and the means. What would Russia benefit from harming a has-been like Skripal and causing all this fuss? None. What benefit does Britain have and NATO? The answer again is provided by Sir Richard who went on to state “The only way to preserve peace is through strength,” carefully echoing Trump’s foreign policy. He continued, “and if Russia is behind this, this is a brazen act of war, of humiliating our country and defence is the first duty and spending 2% of the budget on defence is not enough.” There is the motive right there. To justify an increase on defence spending and to hit Russia yet again with propaganda warfare to justify NATO’s continuing aggression against Russia.
https://journal-neo.org/2018/03/09/the-skripal-incident-another-anti-russian-provocation/

"We, the German Führer and Chancellor, and the British Prime Minister, have had a further meeting today and are agreed in recognizing that the question of Anglo-German relations is of the first importance for our two countries and for Europe.
We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo-German Naval Agreement as symbolic of the desire of our two peoples never to go to war with one another again. We are resolved that the method of consultation shall be the method adopted to deal with any other questions that may concern our two countries, and we are determined to continue our efforts to remove possible sources of difference, and thus to contribute to assure the peace of Europe."

[jonb2]

5 minutes ago, Unexpected said:

 

https://journal-neo.org/2018/03/09/the-skripal-incident-another-anti-russian-provocation/

Sir Edward Leigh, a member of the Parliamentary Defence Committee, in the British Parliament stated, “the circumstantial evidence against Russia is very strong. Who else would have the motive and the means?” The answer to that of course is that the British government has the motive and the means. What would Russia benefit from harming a has-been like Skripal and causing all this fuss? None. What benefit does Britain have and NATO? The answer again is provided by Sir Richard who went on to state “The only way to preserve peace is through strength,” carefully echoing Trump’s foreign policy. He continued, “and if Russia is behind this, this is a brazen act of war, of humiliating our country and defence is the first duty and spending 2% of the budget on defence is not enough.” There is the motive right there. To justify an increase on defence spending and to hit Russia yet again with propaganda warfare to justify NATO’s continuing aggression against Russia.
https://journal-neo.org/2018/03/09/the-skripal-incident-another-anti-russian-provocation/

https://www.acast.com/thetipoff/ep.15webofdeath-part1

[ccc]

11 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Which conspiracy CCC?

If it's the one that WE poisoned him - then I suggest you read my posts from the last few pages. I work with Russians. Have Russian and Ukrainian friends too.

Some macho types support Putin, the more humane ones don't. They despise him and know him for what he is. A despot obsessed with money and power - willing to do ANYTHING to maintain it. Another politico not for the people, but for his pig appetite.

 

Or are you talking about Brexit?

If so, I have given a long list of people behind it and why they want it. Mainly lead by the right wing press barons, of whom the Tories are terrified.

https://circusbuoy.wordpress.com/2017/07/14/why-tax-avoiding-billionaires-want-britain-outside-the-eu/

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2018/02/the-persuasive-power-of-uk-right-wing.html

https://www.thecanary.co/uk/2016/06/23/secret-billionaires-behind-eu-referendum-propaganda/

https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/5ge5pq/whats-behind-the-pro-brexit-stance-of-the-british-press

 

Tell me again. What are the advantages of Brexit? I've not seen any that can come true like a faerie's wish.

 

I was referring to Brexit. I've explained why your conspiracy theory is utterly ridiculous.

[jonb2]

13 minutes ago, ccc said:

I was referring to Brexit. I've explained why your conspiracy theory is utterly ridiculous.

Why do the right-wing press baron's all support Brexit?

[Unexpected]

26 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

https://www.acast.com/thetipoff/ep.15webofdeath-part1

Listening to that right now thanks.

"people who all died under mysterious circumstances"

Like John Smith, David Kelly and Robin Cook perhaps? Did they die at the hands of the Russians?

[ccc]

19 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Why do the right-wing press baron's all support Brexit?

Now I remember why I decided not to bother posting on this absolute cluster ****** of a thread. Enjoy.

[Unexpected]

9 minutes ago, ccc said:

Now I remember why I decided not to bother posting on this absolute cluster ****** of a thread. Enjoy.

Well no one could accuse you of not giving it a fair go.

[kzb]

47 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Why do the right-wing press baron's all support Brexit?

To give some balance against the TV ?

[Confusion of VIs]

1 hour ago, ccc said:

 

So why haven't you bothered to comment on the above conspiracy ? Because its from a fellow Remainer ? Don't want to say you disagree with them....

Even though its clearly ridiculous as not only is our PM a staunch remainer - but every single major political party in the run up to the referendum was too.

Its one of the most ridiculous conspiracies going. All the major political parties who campaigned against Brexit actually wanted it and are now delighted that their cunning conspiracy plan came to fruition.

Because it's not a conspiracy, some free marketers think we will do better out of the EU as it will let them win the race to the bottom and that the UK will emerge richer. They are pretty open about it (read up on Minford's and EFT groups vision for Brexit) the and it is possible they are right.

The only downside is that while great for the 1% (even more so for the 0.001%) if you are in the 99% life may be rather less pleasant.  

[Confusion of VIs]

52 minutes ago, Unexpected said:

Listening to that right now thanks.

"people who all died under mysterious circumstances"

Like John Smith, David Kelly and Robin Cook perhaps? Did they die at the hands of the Russians?

Don't be silly everyone knows Blair bumped all of them off.

 

[Sheeple Splinter]

23 hours ago, IMHAL said:

23 hours ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

If the migration crisis had been better managed, do you think the AfD would still have been as successful?

I have answered your original question well enough, presumably you agree with my response?. Now make your point and if warranted, we can discuss it.

Filed as, "Baulking at an inconvenient truth."

[dryrot]

5 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

I am German Spy, I know more about the situation on the ground, as I speak daily with a friend and go back regularly.  There are as many issues with White Germans, as there are migrants with regards attacks. As for Unemployment, well, go and check german unemployment buddy.  It's the west it has ever been.

As for 1.5m semi literate and untrained migrants, all that shows is your naivety in believing the press.  In this one Village, there is a Libyan Doctor and his family and an IT professional from Syria.  Some of the young there are untrained and semi literate, which is why they are now at schools and colleges.  They're being paid a stipend to learn and benefit society.

All that article does is quite literally explain precisely what I said, from the angle of the express reader.  There are, according to your account, 170k unemployed folk, in  1.9m refugees (it's not 1.5m).  So a little under 10%.  These are all on language courses, all of them.  They have to, to receive benefits.  You have to get a school leavers certificate in Germany.  I remember some of the German girls who weren't that bright would get pregnant as they were still at school aged 19, 20...

Germany is a highly educated country, so when you have less educated folk coming through it's hard yards.  But interestingly you leave out the fact 23% have University degrees.  Pretty much the same as here...

Now also, have a look at the dates on those articles

I understand what you're implying is that putting more people into a system to prop it up is little more than a ponzi scheme, but, well, isn't that capitalism?

Me, not Spy   As the refugee influx is such a benefit to Germany (NYE sex assaults, killer trucks-of-peace, notwithstanding) I wonder why so many of your fellow countrymen voted AfD?

Wrt "Express" is the Independent rightwing?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-refugees-spend-20-billion-euros-2016-angela-merkel-crisis-budgets-middle-east-north-africa-a7623466.html

I'll take your libyan doctor and raise you a hairdresser

https://www.steynonline.com/8374/the-endless-night-of-long-knives 

"The parents of the young girl from the small, peaceful town of Kandel in Rhineland-Palatinate are inconsolable. The crime is already incomprehensible, and becomes even more so when we are told that the presumed murderer was, for a while, practically a member of the family. "We took him in as if he were a son," the girl's father said, according to the Bild tabloid newspaper. He has lost his only daughter. She was stabbed and killed by her former boyfriend, an unaccompanied refugee from Afghanistan. Abdul claimed to be fifteen. The grieving father who took him in no longer believes the "boy". But, unfortunately for his daughter, he believed it - and all the other Merkelist guff - far too easily for far too long. Here's another German story of near parodic gullibility:

On Thursday the first witnesses were heard at the district court in the case of the attempted murder by the Syrian hairdresser Mohammad H. of Ilona F. from Herzberg.

How did Ilona F come to be within throat-cutting range of Mohammad H? Well, she and her hubby hired him:

Together with his wife, and with the help of the refugee helper organization, in 2016, he searched for an Arab hairdresser, to offer something special to the customers of the region. He thought that he had found him in Mohammad H.

So they signed Mohammad and gave him the razors. And you can't say he doesn't offer "something special": how many other German stylists can cut your hair and your throat? But for a while he was the town's "model refugee", a poster child for Mutti Merkel's "We can do this!" optimism - as in the press photo above of the local job-center honcho getting a trim. Once the media had moved on, it was another story:

"I knew that he wasn't a good employee, but I did not want to drop him," said Michael F. Mohammed H. only delivered good work on four of the 100 work days. "His level was that of fourth- or fifth-grade special-needs school."

{my emph]

Mohammad the "model refugee" gives a haircut to the head of the local job-center, while two ladies from the "integration" bureaucracy look on. In the middle is Mohammad's boss Ilona, before he cut her throat and stabbed her in the che

Edited March 14, 2018 by dryrot

[Unexpected]

7 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Don't be silly everyone knows Blair bumped all of them off.

 

I reckon there's at least one remainer here who thinks that's not a million miles from the truth.

[IMHAL]

10 minutes ago, Sheeple Splinter said:

Filed as, "Baulking at an inconvenient truth."

I am still waiting for you to make your point. I could be waiting for some time.

[Sheeple Splinter]

21 hours ago, HairyOb1 said:

1.  I don't have to, you reposted the 1p link many times thanks.  

You've touched no nerve, I am curious as to what time frame you're talking about; one moment it's the general election, next the referendum, then today.

2.  Well yes, as that's what an MP told me, not someone who purports to know lots, but can't even remember what he posts.  I'll go with the MP thanks.

3.  Conservatives drop 12% in 7 months, Labour gain 20% in 7 months.  LibDem polling massively swings in LE by-elections.  Yes, they do don't they 

I already have, several times...

Bravo!

You have completely contradicted yourself and agreed with my original post.

From your post upthread, "...So I then referred you to the fact an MP told me, that it was a multitude of things she'd heard on the doorstep that lost her her seat, 2 major ones being austerity with the Conservatives, and a u turn on tuition fees.  That they couldn't be trusted."

All you need to do is add them to the end of the last line in the following post, "... but they didn't want to pay a penny more on their income tax or..."

Here's the original post that you struggled to understand:

On ‎07‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 11:07 PM, Sheeple Splinter said:

At the GE 2017...9 months ago, 17m+ Remain voters should have coloured this map orange... LibDem pro another ref*... 

... but they didn't want to pay a penny more on their income tax or...

* + Caroline

The above post followed on from:

On ‎02‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 8:15 PM, Sheeple Splinter said:

...

2.  

You mean all those Remainers out there, crying into their lattes, couldn't increase the vote share for LibDem & Greens from 10% because the blues & reds offered something so extraordinarily intoxicating? Something Remainers felt was worth far more than voting to stop ripping the future from our kids and the country apart etc...(to paraphrase remainers).

...