Btl Scum Regrouping And On The Offensive. -- Merged

[spyguy]

2 minutes ago, Bland Unsight said:

Interesting stuff, V. Thanks for posting. It shows that all the fighting talk at back in July 2015 from the BTL goons about how they'll just incorporate was a load of nonsense.

Theres nothing to stop btlers  incorperatimg - they just need to sell the properties, pay the cgt, and get a ltdco mortgage at 8% and pay thd extra taxes.

[Pop321]

1 hour ago, Bland Unsight said:

Interesting stuff, V. Thanks for posting. It shows that all the fighting talk at back in July 2015 from the BTL goons about how they'll just incorporate was a load of nonsense.

It's like a big crime. They can't keep on buying and buying. And borrowing and borrowing. You have to have your own money too, that just crazy. What a shame  

Thing that gets me is harping on about impact on the poorer tenants. But all this will do is push the position back to where it should be, lower prices for all. That helps everyone at the lower end long term. 

It's those lower end tenants that BTL'ers keeps mentioning. Let's be honest - they are little rental batteries paying the rent, to pay for the mortgage and plus a little extra so the BTL'er can fuel up the Evoque. 

I dont mind an honest BTL'er (well I do, but not as much) who really does call a spade a spade....but these guys are kidding themselves when they say they are worried about the tenants. Well, they are not kidding me. 

Edited October 2, 2016 by Phil321
Typo

[Lavalas]

I recall another post by the same poster in that same thread reluctantly feeling some small guilt (which you can only assume she is perfectly happy to live with). Easy to say now. F*ck em.

However, I'm quite accepting now about the whistle being blown on our runaway success.... I may not be popular for saying, but us landlords have had it damn good for the past twenty years and things did seem to be ever escalating with regard to the number of people joining the bandwagon - while anyone not in property, including a whole generation of young people, could only stand and stare in dismay at how they've been left behind...

Considering the plight of the younger generation, does make me feel a bit 'guilty' about having all the properties (!)  I didn't have this view of what we do before, or I wouldn't have been comfortable doing it; but the change in how others see us has affected my own views.... There is an ethical dilemma I never saw before.

I'm very lucky to be in a position to help my grown up kids but am also aware of the irony that I can do so because I'm in property while I need to because they would have no hope of buying a home for themselves: I'm thefore having to give them a substantial sum each (x 3) to enable them to set up home.

[Bug16]

I think it's fair to say that we've reached the "fear phase".

[TheCountOfNowhere]

53 minutes ago, Bug16 said:

I think it's fair to say that we've reached the "fear phase".

Or, the phase, as I call it.

[Lavalas]

It's the Judicial Review permission hearing on Thursday (required following the refusal of their written application). It is also the big 118 'publicity stunt' on Saturday. This involves up to 50 landlords wearing orange t-shirts at a property conference. If only the media and the public were aware of the great shift in consciousness that up to 50 landlords wearing orange t-shirts is about to force upon them. It should be a laugh whatever the hearing verdict.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Lavalas

[jfk]

28 minutes ago, Lavalas said:

It's the Judicial Review permission hearing on Thursday (required following the refusal of their written application). It is also the big 118 'publicity stunt' on Saturday. This involves up to 50 landlords wearing orange t-shirts at a property conference. If only the media and the public were aware of the great shift in consciousness that up to 50 landlords wearing orange t-shirts is about to force upon them. It should be a laugh whatever ever the hearing verdict.

 

[Crumbless]

39 minutes ago, Lavalas said:

It's the Judicial Review permission hearing on Thursday (required following the refusal of their written application). It is also the big 118 'publicity stunt' on Saturday. This involves up to 50 landlords wearing orange t-shirts at a property conference. If only the media and the public were aware of the great shift in consciousness that up to 50 landlords wearing orange t-shirts is about to force upon them. It should be a laugh whatever ever the hearing verdict.

Should have worn "prize plum" t-shirts, more apt. 

Edited October 3, 2016 by Crumbless

[Lavalas]

Apparently there was a 'Spot the Goon' competition pencilled in but they've had to cancel it now.

[Blod]

6 hours ago, Lavalas said:

It's the Judicial Review permission hearing on Thursday (required following the refusal of their written application). It is also the big 118 'publicity stunt' on Saturday. This involves up to 50 landlords wearing orange t-shirts at a property conference. If only the media and the public were aware of the great shift in consciousness that up to 50 landlords wearing orange t-shirts is about to force upon them. It should be a laugh whatever the hearing verdict.

Should be an interesting few days. Those orange T shirts should help mark out the numerically challenged allowing those with the shadiest schemes easy pickings.  

[Venger]

On 02/10/2016 at 2:35 PM, Lavalas said:

I recall another post by the same poster in that same thread reluctantly feeling some small guilt (which you can only assume she is perfectly happy to live with). Easy to say now. F*ck em.

However, I'm quite accepting now about the whistle being blown on our runaway success.... I may not be popular for saying, but us landlords have had it damn good for the past twenty years and things did seem to be ever escalating with regard to the number of people joining the bandwagon - while anyone not in property, including a whole generation of young people, could only stand and stare in dismay at how they've been left behind...

Considering the plight of the younger generation, does make me feel a bit 'guilty' about having all the properties (!)  I didn't have this view of what we do before, or I wouldn't have been comfortable doing it; but the change in how others see us has affected my own views.... There is an ethical dilemma I never saw before.

I'm very lucky to be in a position to help my grown up kids but am also aware of the irony that I can do so because I'm in property while I need to because they would have no hope of buying a home for themselves: I'm thefore having to give them a substantial sum each (x 3) to enable them to set up home.

Your source: http://www.propertytribes.com/why-did-you-become-a-landlord-investor-t-127626238-post-263659.html

They only wanted to see what they want to see.

Read that one of those kids refused financial help from her 100 property BTLing parents.  In-tune with wider situation for their friends / society, it seems to me.  Made me feel good.

Quote

 

 26 Aug 2014 at 14:20

(We have offered more money but she refuses it!)

Their thoughts go something like this:

"Why should we bother to scrimp and save and make financial sacrifices to try and buy somewhere, when prices are ridiculously high already and we have read some things saying they could crash again...

"Besides, most of our friends who are our age can't afford to buy, so we figure that the government is going to have to 'do something about it' when our whole generation gets old and has no property assets to pay for our care home if we need it... They'll have to do something!"

"Also, we don't know where we want to settle... Once H has finished his PhD, we don't know where he'll end up working, so it's not worth the expense of buying when we might have to move in a few years anyway."

"Besides, we like travelling and want to enjoy life, not become slaves to buying property!"

They also pointed out that they would probably pay as much for a mortgage as the rent they're paying (because it'd have to be capital plus interest repayment) and if the interest rate goes up they'd be "stuffed!"

I was quite taken aback... I can't believe this was my daughter speaking, when property investing has been her parents' life and good fortune!!

This really made it strike me how differently Generation Rent think!

http://www.propertytribes.com/generation-rent-here-stay-that-bad-thing-t-12139.html

 

Although the 2014 comments that followed were total BTL.  Apparently Generation Rent has so much to learn from the magnificence of the BTLers and the forever HPI and 'magic/power of leverage'.

Now there has been an adjustment toward taxation rebalance, so many of the BTLers claiming unfairness / victim / and even 'abuse'. 

 

[Venger]

On 02/10/2016 at 1:04 PM, Phil321 said:

It's like a big crime. They can't keep on buying and buying. And borrowing and borrowing. You have to have your own money too, that just crazy. What a shame  

Thing that gets me is harping on about impact on the poorer tenants. But all this will do is push the position back to where it should be, lower prices for all. That helps everyone at the lower end long term. 

It's those lower end tenants that BTL'ers keeps mentioning. Let's be honest - they are little rental batteries paying the rent, to pay for the mortgage and plus a little extra so the BTL'er can fuel up the Evoque. 

I dont mind an honest BTL'er (well I do, but not as much) who really does call a spade a spade....but these guys are kidding themselves when they say they are worried about the tenants. Well, they are not kidding me. 

Reading about 'Operation Meatshield' mass S21s, totally agree,

[Ah-so]

Another lamb to the slaughter. 30-odd properties and now finds she can't remortgage AT END OF TERM. Someone who you want to grab and scream SELL SELL! But she has only one plan - to get her leverage down to 70%. She also points the blame at others for not lending her money (they changed their LTV rules - wash! ).

https://www.property118.com/mortgage-express-terms-ending-mean-trouble/91090/#comment-81776

"I did try to remortgage 5 away from them earlier this year and I thought they’d jump at the chance but they didn’t. They said something like 17 out of the 30 with them would then not meet the LTV requirements and that I would have to pay for valuations for all of them and pay the amounts needed to bring down the LTVs." Etc etc

 

Edited October 4, 2016 by Ah-so

[jiltedjen]

ah nice, finally some 'sob' stories coming from landlords. 

[TheCountOfNowhere]

59 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

Another lamb to the slaughter. 30-odd properties and now finds she can't remortgage AT END OF TERM. Someone who you want to grab and scream SELL SELL! But she has only one plan - to get her leverage down to 70%. She also poins the blame at others for not lending her money (they changed their LTV rules - wash! ).

https://www.property118.com/mortgage-express-terms-ending-mean-trouble/91090/#comment-81776

"I did try to remortgage 5 away from them earlier this year and I thought they’d jump at the chance but they didn’t. They said something like 17 out of the 30 with them would then not meet the LTV requirements and that I would have to pay for valuations for all of them and pay the amounts needed to bring down the LTVs." Etc etc

 

17 x £500  = £8500.....maybe they could borrow it on a credit card

 

 

[eek]

1 hour ago, Ah-so said:

Another lamb to the slaughter. 30-odd properties and now finds she can't remortgage AT END OF TERM. Someone who you want to grab and scream SELL SELL! But she has only one plan - to get her leverage down to 70%. She also points the blame at others for not lending her money (they changed their LTV rules - wash! ).

https://www.property118.com/mortgage-express-terms-ending-mean-trouble/91090/#comment-81776

"I did try to remortgage 5 away from them earlier this year and I thought they’d jump at the chance but they didn’t. They said something like 17 out of the 30 with them would then not meet the LTV requirements and that I would have to pay for valuations for all of them and pay the amounts needed to bring down the LTVs." Etc etc

 

so these are properties bought in 98 yet still have 70%+ loan to value mortgages on them.

I'm sorry but something doesn't add up there as no matter where you bought anything bought in 1998 should have doubled in price before 2007 and at waste been roughly static since

[spyguy]

4 minutes ago, eek said:

so these are properties bought in 98 yet still have 70%+ loan to value mortgages on them.

I'm sorry but something doesn't add up there as no matter where you bought anything bought in 1998 should have doubled in price before 2007 and at waste been roughly static since

I dont find it credible.

IO BL were only sold post 2003ish.

 

[Venger]

1 hour ago, Ah-so said:

Another lamb to the slaughter. 30-odd properties and now finds she can't remortgage AT END OF TERM. Someone who you want to grab and scream SELL SELL! But she has only one plan - to get her leverage down to 70%. She also points the blame at others for not lending her money (they changed their LTV rules - wash! ).

https://www.property118.com/mortgage-express-terms-ending-mean-trouble/91090/#comment-81776

"I did try to remortgage 5 away from them earlier this year and I thought they’d jump at the chance but they didn’t. They said something like 17 out of the 30 with them would then not meet the LTV requirements and that I would have to pay for valuations for all of them and pay the amounts needed to bring down the LTVs." Etc etc

She could carry on for a bit longer... hopefully S24 will give her something to think about as well.

Quote

It sounds to me like you are a victim of the anti-landlord agenda. Firstly S24 will hit you hard – will your portfolio be cash positive after taking the new tax into account? Secondly with the new rules about underwriting coming in, portfolio landlords are going to be looked at more harshly.

 

Some 118er talks about ME positioning to repo his client/friend's properties here, although I don't always believe such entries.

https://www.property118.com/mortgagee-enforces-power-sale-help/91086/

[Venger]

10 minutes ago, eek said:

so these are properties bought in 98 yet still have 70%+ loan to value mortgages on them.

I'm sorry but something doesn't add up there as no matter where you bought anything bought in 1998 should have doubled in price before 2007 and at waste been roughly static since

A batch of them are maturing.  How does a BTLer get to 30 properties?  Maybe some were bought in 2008-2009, which many BTLers call 'a brilliant recession'. 

Where do they often find the deposits to churn into buying moar?

[TheCountOfNowhere]

6 minutes ago, Venger said:

A batch of them are maturing.  How does a BTLer get to 30 properties?  Maybe some were bought in 2008-2009, which many BTLers call 'a brilliant recession'. 

Where do they often find the deposits to churn into buying moar?

 

Hard work and dillegence, of course.

 

[Ah-so]

26 minutes ago, eek said:

so these are properties bought in 98 yet still have 70%+ loan to value mortgages on them.

I'm sorry but something doesn't add up there as no matter where you bought anything bought in 1998 should have doubled in price before 2007 and at waste been roughly static since

15 year commercial mortgages. 

[spyguy]

9 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

15 year commercial mortgages. 

Arnt commercial mortgages amortising?

[TheCountOfNowhere]

[worzel]

Did anyone else see the "property expert" on BBC Breakfast this morning. Telling us all how BTL investors are providing a valuable service, and there is no evidence to suggest that they have been responsible for some of the price increases that everyone has been subject to for the past decade or so.

[eek]

As I was away last Friday I didn't publish Busta's tax guidance book (historic 2015 version) as seen on https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/my-buy-to-let-tax-strategy-book

So to keep us up to date the new total is £2010 with a mere 19 days to go...

That's another scheme thwarted due to total lack of interest...