choox Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Nobody seems to have pointed out yet that council houses don't actually belong to central government. So how is this actually going to work? Central government passes a law forcing councils to give away substantial assets earning them an income? Given that most councils presumably use this income to, you know, provide services, I can only assume their response will be either to cut services or put up council tax. Also, these new outright owners with suddenly no housing costs (other than maintenance) will presumably be able to out-compete us poor sobs who have never had a council house and have to pay rent or a mortgage, so it should put downward pressure on wages. Yay! more tax and lower wages. What a good policy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 What about the people who are already working and living in council housing. Should they quit for a while to qualify for the freebie? It's just insane kite flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 To make it work they'll have to give jobs away as well so as always it's going to cost far more than if they just left things alone. Then they'll pull the jobs rug away as part of their saving the economy plans and you'll have a house but no job and no benefits. So it'll be mortgage equity time. For sure by then things will change so you'll be able to claim benefits and a free house again. It's as crazy as their house price policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honkydonkey Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'd advise both cases to get a backpack, a tent, some walking boots and WorkAway Couldn't agree more. You'll learn far more valuable skills doing this for a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agentimmo Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Unbelievable, so those with a council house get given effectively hundreds of thousands, and I get given the square root of f*ck all because I'm not part of the client state. I'm never voting for those smeggers ever again. +100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Democorruptcy Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The aspirational Blue ties party 1. Baby Bonus (Often referred to as Bedroom tax) Make sure people on benefits breed enough to fill each room 2. Free Council Houses Stop working because house prices are too expensive for wages, claim benefits and then just work a year for a house. All they need are enough Help to Buy mugs slaving away paying taxes to pay 50 year joint income mortgages to support it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Goggles Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Nobody seems to have pointed out yet that council houses don't actually belong to central government. So how is this actually going to work? Central government passes a law forcing councils to give away substantial assets earning them an income? Given that most councils presumably use this income to, you know, provide services, I can only assume their response will be either to cut services or put up council tax. Also, these new outright owners with suddenly no housing costs (other than maintenance) will presumably be able to out-compete us poor sobs who have never had a council house and have to pay rent or a mortgage, so it should put downward pressure on wages. Yay! more tax and lower wages. What a good policy! This is not about fairness or being a coherent policy, it's a desperate attempt to rekindle the spirit of an era that has passed into history. The noble dream of a Conservative voting, proud nation of self-sufficient property owners has collapsed into a stinking cesspit of crony-corporate socialism and parasitic petit-bourgeois rentierism. Giving away council housing 'worked' in the 80s because it changed people's perception of their place in society - away from a unionised collective of workers with entitlements and ever increasing demands on the state, and towards individuals with a responsibility for themselves and stake in their community. None of this can be said to be relevant from where we currently stand in 2015. The policy has gone from being the pragmatic enabler of a noble cause to the desperate act of a discredited ideology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_northshore_* Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Nobody seems to have pointed out yet that council houses don't actually belong to central government. So how is this actually going to work? Central government passes a law forcing councils to give away substantial assets earning them an income? Given that most councils presumably use this income to, you know, provide services, I can only assume their response will be either to cut services or put up council tax... FT - Cash-strapped councils to raise billions with new municipal bonds Behind paywall but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_Capital_Finance_Company As Treasury sums make little sense seems quite inevitable, and probably part of moving towards all the 'localism' and devolution stuff. Except the talk will only be backed up by a much lower effective % of existing central government financing (whether a simple reduction or off central balance sheet entirely). Leaving a scenario of trumpeting savings while councils and countries have to either raise local debt/taxes or cut services a lot - and get blamed for it. Because the national distribution of ability to pay more and electoral politics are correlated it may get a double whammy effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It feels more and more like socialism. It's hilarious- if Milliband had floated this the Tories would be screaming 'socialism'- the same is true for 'Help to Buy'. At least Cameron has his principles- and- if you don't like those, well, he always has others. It's like a pick and mix. Do these people actually believe in anything at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byron78 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) Do these people actually believe in anything at all?Tax avoidance? It all feels like the same tired old joke reworked. "A banker, a UKIP voter, and a migrant are sat at a table. David Cameron (dressed as a creepy penguin waiter) brings them a plate of 10 biscuits. The banker stuffs 9 biscuits in an envelope and posts them straight off to his mates in Switzerland. Then he taps the UKIP voter on the shoulder and says: 'Watch out for that migrant mate. He's after your biscuit.' " (Actually, the reality is probably less funny and far far worse. In real life the UKIP voter probably had to pay for most of the ingredients in the biscuits and the migrant had to bake them...) Edited February 12, 2015 by byron78 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Goggles Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It's hilarious- if Milliband had floated this the Tories would be screaming 'socialism'- the same is true for 'Help to Buy'. At least Cameron has his principles- and- if you don't like those, well, he always has others. It's like a pick and mix. Do these people actually believe in anything at all? They can't think outside of the bounds of neoliberalism. This policy does actually fit neoliberalism pretty well as it is moving state owned assets to private ownership at below market value. For some reason it has angered the free market think tanks rather more than - for example - handing energy or transport contracts to European state owned organisations. I can only assume this is because wealthy donors to free market think tanks don't stand to gain from the giving away of council houses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 It's hilarious- if Milliband had floated this the Tories would be screaming 'socialism'- the same is true for 'Help to Buy'. At least Cameron has his principles- and- if you don't like those, well, he always has others. It's like a pick and mix. Do these people actually believe in anything at all? He gives all the appearance of being a true successor to NuLab. And to believe in something like what used to be called Focus Groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUBanana Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 They can't think outside of the bounds of neoliberalism. This policy does actually fit neoliberalism pretty well as it is moving state owned assets to private ownership at below market value. For some reason it has angered the free market think tanks rather more than - for example - handing energy or transport contracts to European state owned organisations. I can only assume this is because wealthy donors to free market think tanks don't stand to gain from the giving away of council houses. Free market think tanks often make the error of conflating big business with the free market, is why. There's no big business involved in this one so the rampant BS is that much clearer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUBanana Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Argh I don't often get proper pi$$ed at politics but now I really am. We've finally reached that point where I'd rather Ed Miliband was in charge than that twossock, BS artist and enemy of the good, Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patfig Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Bye bye baby blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porca misèria Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Argh I don't often get proper pi$$ed at politics but now I really am. We've finally reached that point where I'd rather Ed Miliband was in charge than that twossock, BS artist and enemy of the good, Dave. Yeah, metoo. Trouble is, Miliband comes with some very nasty baggage. Balls and Harfwit, to name but two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Free market think tanks often make the error of conflating big business with the free market, is why Aren't most free market think tanks supported by wealthy patrons anyway?- so their own experience of the free market is somewhat limited. My favorite flavor of neo liberal hypocrite however are those tenured academics who wax lyrical about the virtues of competition from the comfort of their lifetime sinecure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 So basically the behaviour we want to reward is to get a council house, live on benefits for a year, then get a job and come off benefits for a year, get your free house, then wait 3 years and sell it tax free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 This is not about fairness or being a coherent policy, it's a desperate attempt to rekindle the spirit of an era that has passed into history. The noble dream of a Conservative voting, proud nation of self-sufficient property owners has collapsed into a stinking cesspit of crony-corporate socialism and parasitic petit-bourgeois rentierism. Giving away council housing 'worked' in the 80s because it changed people's perception of their place in society - away from a unionised collective of workers with entitlements and ever increasing demands on the state, and towards individuals with a responsibility for themselves and stake in their community. None of this can be said to be relevant from where we currently stand in 2015. The policy has gone from being the pragmatic enabler of a noble cause to the desperate act of a discredited ideology. Yes, the Conservatives are deep into cargo cult territory on housing. All 1980s slogans, no substance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I can`t see any problem with this, besides, you`re all Tories aren't you? Just think of Margret Thatcher naked and you`ll soon feel much better. Always works for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 So basically the behavioury we want to reward is to get a council house, live on benefits for a year, then get a job and come off benefits for a year, get your free house, then wait 3 years and sell it tax free? It sounds like something to do with the 5 year election cycle. It's no way to run a country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest_northshore_* Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I can`t see any problem with this, besides, you`re all Tories aren't you? Just think of Margret Thatcher naked and you`ll soon feel much better. Always works for me. If only people felt equally passionate about giving housing and money away to landlords and landowners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattW Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) This looks like another windfall for council tenants. Even better than the one offered to my council tenant parents 30 years ago in the guise of RTB. What about us other working Joes in private rentals earning below the national average wage? Can we be gifted the home upon which we paid thousands of pounds in rent on? Edited February 12, 2015 by MattW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Well I`m a council dweller and really there`s no chance of the government bringing this in. No chance with various knobs on innit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samboy Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I can`t see any problem with this, besides, you`re all Tories aren't you? Just think of Margret Thatcher naked and you`ll soon feel much better. Always works for me. You're just wanting a freebee at the expense of me. Cheap rent isnt enough for most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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