Bloo Loo Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Religion does not create wars, resentments, jealousy, fear and differences create wars. Religion is the rallying point for all your reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Religion is the rallying point for all your reasons. Maybe....but even if religions did not exist there would still be wars and arguments over differences, power, control and money...hell we don't at times get on with our own next-door neighbours because we sometimes see them as different to ourselves without our high standards, morals and ideals......that is why you often get ghettos of like minded people choosing to live together...doesn't take much to upset the apple cart, then something small can quickly turn into big trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Again, evidence please? This meme of 'a few bad apples' wasn't stood for with the Met and the Steven Lawrence murder. The term 'institutional racism' was created as a result. I hear 'a few bad apples' and I know that what the writer means is "I think its a minority within the group, and if I shout it loud enough the problem will go away'. No, but it was enough to justify the horrific actions of people convinced they were on the side of right during our occupations of both Iraq and Afganistan, both somewhat more relevant to the topic at hand than our domestic policing policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichB Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I thought Islam was a religion/political movement, not a race? So it's not ethnic cleansing is it? I get tired of all the cries of 'raaaaacist'. It's boring, and untrue, so stop it and grow up. What do you mean how do we deal with these people abroad? You mean should we interfere in the middle east? Not unless we are willing to become a new roman empire with a standing army of millions and a brutal oppression doctrine. I don't think that is the way anyone is suggesting we go. We withdraw, and we minimise interference. Oh yes, and I forgot to mention... As a rule of thumb, try substituting 'Jewish' for whichever group of people you are preaching hate about, and then ask yourself if you would shout that new statement at Speakers Corner, or perhaps whether you would be happy to drop it into an interview with any of the more aggressive journalists. As it stands you are playing pretty close to the kind of writing that gets people jail time these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Those calling for action to be taken against Muslims in this country, the vast majority of whom are as disgusted as the rest of us by the actions of ISL (or whatever they're called), are doing exactly what these murderers want. They are playing you like fiddles! Where is this disgusted majority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libspero Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 The biggest question now is presumably; are there any more British folk out there in line to be beheaded.. or is it just locals now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Well :( Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Oh yes, and I forgot to mention... As a rule of thumb, try substituting 'Jewish' for whichever group of people you are preaching hate about, and then ask yourself if you would shout that new statement at Speakers Corner, or perhaps whether you would be happy to drop it into an interview with any of the more aggressive journalists. As it stands you are playing pretty close to the kind of writing that gets people jail time these days. Are the Jewish people trying to create a Jewish state here then? I dont think so. We dont have any problems with Hindus either. Seems to be a Muslim thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePiltdownMan Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 In a democracy don't believers in Islam have every right to try for transform it into an Islamic state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byron Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 All this rational thinking, all this logical argument, all this 'We are just as bad as them' is a typical intellectual, ineffective nonsense, poncing around displaying your oh so correct tender emotions. Nobody really gives a flying F... what you think. The matter will be decided by the guys with guns. Happens every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail the Tripod Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Where is this disgusted majority?All around, I imagine. I have some Muslim friends and I wouldn't expect them to rush around making apologies and condemnations simply because they are Muslims. Why should they?Do you feel compelled to condemn secular western democracy every time a drone strike kills a bunch of innocent kids in some desert hellhole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 And todays no shit sherlock headline Army chiefs tell Government: stop Gulf states funding terrorism Pressure is mounting on the Government to take action against wealthy Gulf states accused of funding Islamist terrorism after the beheading of Alan Henning, the British aid worker kidnapped in Syria. Two retired generals and a former defence secretary claimed that nations such as Qatar and Saudi Arabia were helping the rise of violent extremism by channelling cash to terrorist groups such as Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (Isil), which carried out Mr Henning’s murder. Pressure is mounting on the Government to take action against wealthy Gulf states accused of funding Islamist terrorism after the beheading of Alan Henning, the British aid worker kidnapped in Syria. Two retired generals and a former defence secretary claimed that nations such as Qatar and Saudi Arabia were helping the rise of violent extremism by channelling cash to terrorist groups such as Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (Isil), which carried out Mr Henning’s murder. The trio of senior military figures said air strikes against Isil were insufficient to defeat the terrorist threat. Instead, they called on the Government to pressure Gulf leaders into tackling extremism by strangling the funding of terrorist networks and the religious ideology that fuels them. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11141539/Army-chiefs-tell-Government-stop-Gulf-states-funding-terrorism.html Oh dear. I am not sure that HMG want people mentioning that inconvenient truth least of all in a national newspaper Expect Dave and his cabinet chums to take firm and decisive action on this issue sometime about the year 2514 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I see that there was a London march today attended by at least one Labour MP against NATO bombing in Iraq... bit still no muslim march against ISIL or Al Qaeda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 All this rational thinking, all this logical argument, all this 'We are just as bad as them' is a typical intellectual, ineffective nonsense, poncing around displaying your oh so correct tender emotions. Nobody really gives a flying F... what you think. The matter will be decided by the guys with guns. Happens every time. It will be decided by the people with the money to buy or to make the guns as certain ex generals have pointed out today. War does not come cheap even for jihadis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_out Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 All around, I imagine. I have some Muslim friends and I wouldn't expect them to rush around making apologies and condemnations simply because they are Muslims. Why should they? Do you feel compelled to condemn secular western democracy every time a drone strike kills a bunch of innocent kids in some desert hellhole? Yes!2 million people marched against the Iraq war. Condemnation of drone strikes is regular and consistent. There was huge outrage regarding torture in Abu Ghraib and extraordinary rendition. Outraged Muslims are conspicuous by their absence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitevanman Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Yes! 2 million people marched against the Iraq war. Condemnation of drone strikes is regular and consistent. There was huge outrage regarding torture in Abu Ghraib and extraordinary rendition. Outraged Muslims are conspicuous by their absence. Oh, I don't know, they were pretty outraged about about the Danish cartoons and the Satanic Verses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Nothing the western media like more that a good beheading followed by everyone getting on the outrage bus followed by some bombing followed by another beheading followed by more outrage followed by more bombing etc all accompanied by empty soundbites and crocodile tears from everyone from Cameron to Imams in Birmingham. Needless to say it was some poor Kurd and his family getting hacked to bits by ISIS thugs rather than some well intentioned but rather naive Brit the story would have barely created a ripple in the media As I have mentioned before if Cameron is correct that the struggle against fanatical Islamicsts like ISIS is 'this generations Second World War' then sending 6 ageing Tornado aircraft (out of production since 1998) hardly seems like an adequate response. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2779019/British-PM-Cameron-arrives-Afghanistan-meet-unity-govt.html If you want to face down that sort of threat then you need to be on a total war footing which means directing all labour and a capital to the war effort, putting millions under arms, internment for all potential enemy sympathisers, cutting all economic ties with the Gulf states that help fund terror, constructing an ideological based de radical Islamification program, and of course raising the taxes to fund it. The point is that to wage and win that sort of struggle means real sacrifices would have to be made by a lot of people in all sections of society not just the professional military. It also require a bit more commitment than X factor emotional grandstanding we are seeing at at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 There was a mock beheading outside Downing Street today. No one arrested apparently. Can you imagine what would happen if some Brits did a mock beheading of muslims outside Downing Street? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormymonday_2011 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 There was a mock beheading outside Downing Street today. No one arrested apparently. Can you imagine what would happen if some Brits did a mock beheading of muslims outside Downing Street? It was a protest by Kurds against ISIS. I think they were trying to make the point it is not just Brits or Americans who are suffering these sort of atrocities in Iraq or Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 It was a protest by Kurds against ISIS. I think they were trying to make the point it is not just Brits or Americans who are suffering these sort of atrocities in Iraq or Syria Ah, OK. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QP1 Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 In a democracy don't believers in Islam have every right to try for transform it into an Islamic state?Do unbelievers have the right to criticize, mock, ridicule and counter those beliefs?Some democracies consider certain views/beliefs so dangerous they are banned from being expressed, e.g. Holocaust denial in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 And todays no shit sherlock headline http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/11141539/Army-chiefs-tell-Government-stop-Gulf-states-funding-terrorism.html Oh dear. I am not sure that HMG want people mentioning that inconvenient truth least of all in a national newspaper Expect Dave and his cabinet chums to take firm and decisive action on this issue sometime about the year 2514 Especially as we know that Saudi Arabia actually threatens to send terrorists abroad...they publicly threatened the Russians last year when they (the Russians) opposed the action against Syria, that they would take the war to Russian Streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt Barlow Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 ISIS has significant support amongst Muslims in Britain. The 'it's a tiny minority' rhetoric is nonsense. Outside of those who directly support ISIS actions are those who deplore their actions but sympathise with their aims i.e Sharia. Many Muslims want Sharia and Islamic supremacism in the West. The movement is led by the most zealous and religious. So called moderates have zero influence. It doesn't bode well. You are using the term 'Muslim' in an extremely broad context. Shia, and in particular Sufi Muslims generally support secular Government under democratic principles. They are hated by the Wahhabi Militant Islamicists more than just about anyone else and are portrayed as Apostates. At the other end of the spectrum Sufis in Iran are persecuted for the same views in Iran by the Shia Islamic Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 You are using the term 'Muslim' in an extremely broad context. Shia, and in particular Sufi Muslims generally support secular Government under democratic principles. They are hated by the Wahhabi Militant Islamicists more than just about anyone else and are portrayed as Apostates. At the other end of the spectrum Sufis in Iran are persecuted for the same views in Iran by the Shia Islamic Government. yeah, but for propaganda purposes, its so much easier to lump the enemy into one homogenous group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherebee Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 You are using the term 'Muslim' in an extremely broad context. Shia, and in particular Sufi Muslims generally support secular Government under democratic principles. They are hated by the Wahhabi Militant Islamicists more than just about anyone else and are portrayed as Apostates. At the other end of the spectrum Sufis in Iran are persecuted for the same views in Iran by the Shia Islamic Government. Which group is it that believes you can leave the religion freely, allow women equal rights in court and divorce, and allows homosexuality? I lose track.....or is it none of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Well :( Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I wonder how many of the Muslim apologists on here would be happy for their daughter to marry a Saudi and go and live there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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