zugzwang Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 German unemployment went into the stratosphere after 1990 when the capitalist west was attempting to asimiliate the formerly communist east. The ideological tide appears to have run the other way since 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 And why did it rise before then? You are misinformed. West German unemployment in 1973-9 was 2.9%, just over half of that of the UK, and 6.1% during 1980-87, again just over half that of the UK. There was a global recession caused by oil price spikes in both periods, but the UK fared worse. www.researchgate.net/ publication/ 4890808_Unemployment_in_the_OECD_Since_the_1960s._What_Do_We_Know/ links/ 0deec52a7070758e47000000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecrashingisles Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 You are misinformed. West German unemployment in 1973-9 was 2.9%, just over half of that of the UK, and 6.1% during 1980-87, again just over half that of the UK. There was a global recession caused by oil price spikes in both periods, but the UK fared worse. www.researchgate.net/ publication/ 4890808_Unemployment_in_the_OECD_Since_the_1960s._What_Do_We_Know/ links/ 0deec52a7070758e47000000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 my post was more relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckmojo Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I restrained myself thus far, but as a citizen of the border lands, albeit in voluntary exile at the moment, I think I qualify for a comment on Scottish Independence: - Cameron was a fool to underestimate the nationalist movement and the hatred toward conventional politics, North and South of the invisible - so far - border. For some reason, all you need to do to summon the devil North of the Three Counties is to mention "Thatcher". The more the better. Like BeetleJuice. - Milliband is an even bigger fool. The complacency with which he and his smug Scottish MP have treated the "Yes" camp is fully representative of how the Labour party sees their voter base: Ignorant, needy, easily placated and default voters no matter what. This is probably applicable to the North of England though. - The "Yes" white paper is a marketing tool and should be seen as such. The economic principles are very much fantasy land. Trying to unpick it to swing the vote to No is pointless. Those who wanted independence seem prepared to ride through hell or believe in fairy tales, so the argument does not stand. - Exhuming Gordon Brown to convince people to vote NO was a masterstroke of stupidity. It's surreal to watch the man responsible for bringing the UK to within a whisker of bankruptcy lecturing about why it's "Better Together". Also, who gave him mandate to try and bribe Scottish voters with a version of Devo Max on steroids? Short of involving Tony Blair - and I am sure some cretin will have thought of that - this was the worst idea I can think of. (to qualify my statement, I think ALL Scottish money should stay in Scotland, as well as ALL Scottish MPs though.) Whichever way it will go, shit has been stirred. Good luck to the voters in Scotland - can't really say "good luck to the Scottish people, can I?". Their opportunity to determine their own fate could set an interesting precedent and the exercise could be repeated elsewhere. Watching with trepidation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I restrained myself thus far, but as a citizen of the border lands, albeit in voluntary exile at the moment, I think I qualify for a comment on Scottish Independence: - Cameron was a fool to underestimate the nationalist movement and the hatred toward conventional politics, North and South of the invisible - so far - border. For some reason, all you need to do to summon the devil North of the Three Counties is to mention "Thatcher". The more the better. Like BeetleJuice. - Milliband is an even bigger fool. The complacency with which he and his smug Scottish MP have treated the "Yes" camp is fully representative of how the Labour party sees their voter base: Ignorant, needy, easily placated and default voters no matter what. This is probably applicable to the North of England though. - The "Yes" white paper is a marketing tool and should be seen as such. The economic principles are very much fantasy land. Trying to unpick it to swing the vote to No is pointless. Those who wanted independence seem prepared to ride through hell or believe in fairy tales, so the argument does not stand. - Exhuming Gordon Brown to convince people to vote NO was a masterstroke of stupidity. It's surreal to watch the man responsible for bringing the UK to within a whisker of bankruptcy lecturing about why it's "Better Together". Also, who gave him mandate to try and bribe Scottish voters with a version of Devo Max on steroids? Short of involving Tony Blair - and I am sure some cretin will have thought of that - this was the worst idea I can think of. (to qualify my statement, I think ALL Scottish money should stay in Scotland, as well as ALL Scottish MPs though.) Whichever way it will go, shit has been stirred. Good luck to the voters in Scotland - can't really say "good luck to the Scottish people, can I?". Their opportunity to determine their own fate could set an interesting precedent and the exercise could be repeated elsewhere. Watching with trepidation. Well said. I think you are spot on there. You should post this on one of the national newspaper sites in the vain hope that someone of importance might read it. To add, I can't believe that they chose Darling as well.. The Yes lot had Hollywood and BBC actors and other assorted luvvies... and perhaps Murray als up their sleeve... whilst the No campaign had a bunch of failed politicians in grey suit with grey minds and no passion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckmojo Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Well said. I think you are spot on there. You should post this on one of the national newspaper sites in the vain hope that someone of importance might read it. To add, I can't believe that they chose Darling as well.. The Yes lot had Hollywood and BBC actors and other assorted luvvies... and perhaps Murray als up their sleeve... whilst the No campaign had a bunch of failed politicians in grey suit with grey minds and no passion. Good point. Sending the Westminster clique up to convince "Yes" voters is akin to a red rag to a bull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I restrained myself thus far, but as a citizen of the border lands, albeit in voluntary exile at the moment, I think I qualify for a comment on Scottish Independence: - Cameron was a fool to underestimate the nationalist movement and the hatred toward conventional politics, North and South of the invisible - so far - border. For some reason, all you need to do to summon the devil North of the Three Counties is to mention "Thatcher". The more the better. Like BeetleJuice. - Milliband is an even bigger fool. The complacency with which he and his smug Scottish MP have treated the "Yes" camp is fully representative of how the Labour party sees their voter base: Ignorant, needy, easily placated and default voters no matter what. This is probably applicable to the North of England though. - The "Yes" white paper is a marketing tool and should be seen as such. The economic principles are very much fantasy land. Trying to unpick it to swing the vote to No is pointless. Those who wanted independence seem prepared to ride through hell or believe in fairy tales, so the argument does not stand. - Exhuming Gordon Brown to convince people to vote NO was a masterstroke of stupidity. It's surreal to watch the man responsible for bringing the UK to within a whisker of bankruptcy lecturing about why it's "Better Together". Also, who gave him mandate to try and bribe Scottish voters with a version of Devo Max on steroids? Short of involving Tony Blair - and I am sure some cretin will have thought of that - this was the worst idea I can think of. (to qualify my statement, I think ALL Scottish money should stay in Scotland, as well as ALL Scottish MPs though.) Whichever way it will go, shit has been stirred. Good luck to the voters in Scotland - can't really say "good luck to the Scottish people, can I?". Their opportunity to determine their own fate could set an interesting precedent and the exercise could be repeated elsewhere. Watching with trepidation. You are spot on about Labour. I think the fall-out from the referendum is going to affect all the main parties, but especially so Labour. I really thought their attitudes might begin to change after the Euro-elections when UKIP gave them a drubbing, but the metropolitan elite are stuck up their own digestive tracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rantnrave Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Poll bounce UK-wide for Cameron's Tories if it is a no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Poll bounce UK-wide for Cameron's Tories if it is a no? Nah - poll bounce for Cameron in Wales? In Scotland? Nah. England maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Poll bounce UK-wide for Cameron's Tories if it is a no? Why? There are probably as many people - proportion-wise - in the rest of the UK who want to leave as there are in Scotland. The fact that so many have voted to leave is a reflection on how bad the Tories have been. Just wait for Clacton on 9 October. Edited September 19, 2014 by 1929crash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheBlueCat Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 If Cameron gives the Scots half of what he's promised, I imagine that his popularity in England will plunge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200p Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 SCOTLAND ON COURSE FOR NO http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/0f7464b4-3f4d-11e4-984b-00144feabdc0.html#slide0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man o' the year Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 No just about to be formally declared. Anyone else now finding the Scottish accent grates a little more than it used to? What a phenomenal waste of time and money. The only thing I hoped it would achieve would be to diminish and shut up Salmond and Sturgeon but that's a fail too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
man o' the year Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 NO - Official with Fife result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) Yay, Andy Murray is British again.... still... um.... At least I can now play my favourite songs again. Anyone know how the Green Hills Of Tyrol voted? Edited September 19, 2014 by The Masked Tulip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 (edited) You got to hand it to Salmond - he does not give up. Someone really needs to do a Downfall parody of him in the bunker Edit: - seems that the Yes lot did make one. Edited September 19, 2014 by The Masked Tulip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 NO - Official with Fife result. One council left to declare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Exit polls were pretty accurate. Now the Devo Max squabbling starts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Exit polls were pretty accurate. Now the Devo Max squabbling starts... Devo max affects England too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Masked Tulip Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Across the UK you can hear the collective sighs of relief of Scottish BBC News presenters and journos.... and probably some rapid back-pedalling by some of the luvvies who let their ture colour slip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Across the UK you can hear the collective sighs of relief of Scottish BBC News presenters and journos.... and probably some rapid back-pedalling by some of the luvvies who let their ture colour slip. I thought it was pretty insulting to the Scots for the British State Broadcasting Corporation to put Nick 'the liar' Robinson on their results show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Knimbies who say No Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Devo max affects England too. Yup, seems like the issues around it could rumble on until the election. With the UKIP situation and now the party arguments about the Devo Max pledge he's in for a rough ride until May. Conference season should be interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 I think it is fair to say that at its heart, the British are conservative with a small 'c'. So why is there now going to be huge constitutional upheaval? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1929crash Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Yup, seems like the issues around it could rumble on until the election. With the UKIP situation and now the party arguments about the Devo Max pledge he's in for a rough ride until May. Conference season should be interesting! The issue of 'Home Rule for England,' and federalism is going to last for years, well beyond the next election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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