South Lorne Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Fixed http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=196213 ..true ...it's called 'the compensation fund of last resort for customers of authorised financial services firms'..and of course any guarantee if it were such ..is only as strong as the issuer ..and in the word 'compensation' ..the amount of money in the pot...there are scenarios where even the Government (which means Taxpayers)..need protection in the term 'limited'...who can afford to be 'unlimited' in any scenario....?...certainly not Governments.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 This is hilarious guys that you have now managed to have nearly 5 pages of discussion on the possibility that HSBC probably one of the safest banks in the world with around 180 billion in cash on the balance sheet and a tier 1 ratio of >13 pct could possibly be having problems.. Get real guys. Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image Too funny. I'm sure similar things were said about Lehman before they went belly up. Not that I'm claiming anything will happen to HSBC- I have no idea. The problem is I'm not sure anyone else has either- what I do know is that banking is now one big black box so riddled with fraud and dodgy accounting that it seems to take an 80 billion monthly injection from the Federall reserve just to stay upright. No one living in a QE saturated ZIRP based universe should be as confident as you seem to be that anything involved in the banking system is exactly what it appears to be. And if China does have it's 'Lehman' moment it will impact Hong Kong and who really knows what the impact of that will be on HSBC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpo Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 1390772806[/url]' post='1102456597']ive blocked Jonpoo so i dont have to read his posts...is there any way to block out posts that include his posts? i feel quite sick when i read his rhetoric. I feel an urge to roflol when I see you funny threads dude... You can't read this of course .... But you are tres funny.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpo Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 1390775842[/url]' post='1102456618']I'm sure similar things were said about Lehman before they went belly up. Not that I'm claiming anything will happen to HSBC- I have no idea. The problem is I'm not sure anyone else has either- what I do know is that banking is now one big black box so riddled with fraud and dodgy accounting that it seems to take an 80 billion monthly injection from the Federall reserve just to stay upright. No one living in a QE saturated ZIRP based universe should be as confident as you seem to be that anything involved in the banking system is exactly what it appears to be. And if China does have it's 'Lehman' moment it will impact Hong Kong and who really knows what the impact of that will be on HSBC? No not really everyone knew Lehman was leveraged up the wazoo.. Like northern rock etc.. On the contrary every one knowing that the system is supported by QE should be as confident as me and possibly more so the people will keep the ship on course.... there is no circumstance in which hsbc would be allowed to get even close to the edge without the rules being changed again and again and again until the correct answer is given... You know this to be true.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabHand Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 No not really everyone knew Lehman was leveraged up the wazoo.. Like northern rock etc.. On the contrary every one knowing that the system is supported by QE should be as confident as me and possibly more so the people will keep the ship on course.... there is no circumstance in which hsbc would be allowed to get even close to the edge without the rules being changed again and again and again until the correct answer is given... You know this to be true.. No-one knew feck all 'til it was too late. And you certainly didn't so stop the bluster already. "On the contrary every one knowing that the system is supported by QE should be as confident as me ..." yeah works til it doesn't. The magic bullet that was there all along but never got used for some reason. "there is no circumstance in which hsbc would be allowed to get even close to the edge without the rules being changed again and again and again until the correct answer is given..." l'll grant you that they wont stop trying, that's for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderpup Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) No not really everyone knew Lehman was leveraged up the wazoo.. Like northern rock etc..On the contrary every one knowing that the system is supported by QE should be as confident as me and possibly more so the people will keep the ship on course.... there is no circumstance in which hsbc would be allowed to get even close to the edge without the rules being changed again and again and again until the correct answer is given... You know this to be true.. Everyone also knew that Lehman was rock solid- until it wasn't. did you read the link Hotairmail posted above re the banks in China? China halts bank transfersIn short, there will be a three-day suspension of domestic renminbi transfers. There will also be a suspension, spanning nine calendar days, of conversions of renminbi to foreign currency. The specific reason given—“system maintenance” at the central bank—is preposterous. It is not credible that during the highest usage period in the year—the weeklong Lunar New Year holiday beginning January 31—the central bank would schedule an upgrade and shut down cash transfers. A better explanation is that the country’s banking system is running dry. I'm sure it's entirely coincidental that the UK high street bank with the biggest exposure to Hong Kong has recently tried to prevent people moving their own cash out of the bank- but it's hard not be a little paranoid just the same- don't you think? I take your point about the ability of the elite to change the rules to prevent banks going under- but that did not save lehman so there seem to be some limits as to who and what can be saved- and I'm not sure that bailing out China is something even the Fed can do that easily. You may also want to check out this; COMPANY REPORT NO 14: HSBC HOLDINGS: END OF THE CHARADESIGNIFICANT ASSET RISK AND EXTREME CAPITAL NEEDS HSBC Holdings (5 HK; HSBC or the Group) has overstated assets at the major subsidiary level to the tune of US$63.6bn-US$92.3bn, by our calculation, amounting to between five and seven years of results. Given this unaccounted-for level of balance sheet risk and the enormous increase in the Group’s Basel III/CRD IV capital requirements, we believe HSBC needs to raise between US$58bn and US$111bn in capital (depending on the implementation of a counter-cyclical buffer), representing 32-61% of current stated equity. Given how much new equity HSBC appears to need, a dividend cut or suspension is quite plausible. 12%-15% CORE ROE TARGET IS PURE FALLACY It is a wonder how Group management can say to shareholders with a straight face that HSBC will achieve perennial operating ROEs of 12-15%. Here are our problems with Group CEO Stuart Gulliver’s target: (a) the numerous franchise disposals and accounting change should cause the Group’s 2012 mainland Chinese 15.1% bottom-line contribution to decline by 39% in US$ terms; ( HSBC’s emerging market franchises are not faring well either, since not only has HSBC failed to take advantage of QE judiciously, allowing many of its legacy developed market problems to linger, but newly created ones in emerging markets are now building up; © if we are correct, the Group is likely to raise substantial capital and/or hive off parts of its core franchise; (d) we think HSBC faces up to US$10bn of additional legal and regulatory penalties; (e) high reliance (52% of pre-tax income) on low-quality and volatile trading seems unsustainable. http://www.asianomicsgroup.com/forensic-asia/research-and-services/research-library/articles/hsbc-holdings-end-of-the-charade So maybe that desire to hold onto customers cash was not due to HSBC's legendary commitment to preventing money laundering and more about their anxiety that this kind of analysis was setting off a run they wished to nip in the bud? If so they handled it in the worst possible way- but bankers have been known to make mistakes on occasion- their last one being the near destruction of the financial system itself. Edited January 26, 2014 by wonderpup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverwhere Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 Once upon a time you dressed so fine, Threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you ? People'd call, say, "Beware doll, you're bound to fall," You thought they were all a’kiddin' you. You used to laugh about Everybody that was hangin' out. Now you don't talk so loud, Now you don't seem so proud, About having to be scrounging your next meal. How does it feel ? How does it feel ? To be without a home ? Like a complete unknown ? Like a rolling stone ? Aw, you've gone to the finest school all right, Miss Lonely, But you know you only used to get “juiced” in it. Nobody’s ever taught you how to live out on the street, And now you're gonna have to get used to it. You say you never compromise With a mystery tramp, but now you realize He's not selling any alibis As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes And say, “Do you want to make a deal? How does it feel ? How does it feel ? To be on your own ? With no direction home ? A complete unknown ? Like a rolling stone ? Aw, you never turned around to see the frowns On the jugglers and the clowns When they all did tricks for you. You never understood that it ain't no good, You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you. You used to ride on a chrome horse with your diplomat Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat. Ain't it hard when you discover that He really wasn't where it's at After he took from you everything he could steal ? How does it feel ? How does it feel ? To have ya’ on your own ? With no direction home ? Like a complete unknown ? Like a rolling stone ? Aw, princess on the steeple and all the pretty people They're all drinkin', thinkin' that they’ve got it made. Exchanging all precious gifts, But you'd better take your diamond ring, you'd better pawn it babe. You used to be so amused At Napoleon in rags and the language that he used. Go to him now, he calls you, you can't refuse. When you ain’t got nothing, you’ve got nothing to lose You're invisible now, you’ve got no secrets to conceal. How does it feel ? Aw, how does it feel ? To be on your own ? With no direction home ? Like a complete unknown ? Like a rolling stone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpo Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 However back in the REAL world it is still a FACT that HSBC is today still worth 1.55 TRILLION hk dollars... If any of that scaremongering paranoid ******** your calling research had any kind of credibility don't you think they worth an awful lot less? Anyway I personally know a guy that runs HSBC out in HK.. He has known for years that Chinese banking system is a house built on sand. And so for all you people hoping to see the end of the world sometime soon... Sorry... Life goes on.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 No-one knew feck all 'til it was too late. And you certainly didn't so stop the bluster already. "On the contrary every one knowing that the system is supported by QE should be as confident as me ..." yeah works til it doesn't. The magic bullet that was there all along but never got used for some reason. "there is no circumstance in which hsbc would be allowed to get even close to the edge without the rules being changed again and again and again until the correct answer is given..." l'll grant you that they wont stop trying, that's for sure. The liquidity drain on Lehman started at about the time Bear Stearnes collapsed. The pressure accelerated in the 6 months prior to its collapse and obviously became a bank run in the last few weeks. The email evidence is all there on the Internet, published as part of the review. Fascinating reading. Of course publicly Lehman said everything is fine, but large parts of the market knew. Back to HSBC. We either have a somewhat overzealous interpretation of AML rules by a bank that got in trouble for applying them badly previously or we have one of the world's most liquid banks in trouble and has kept it secret from the core wholesale market but somehow thinks its balance sheet will be saved by restricting cash withdrawals. Now what is it? Also if you want to stop a bank run the one thing you do not do is restrict customers' access to cash. See the bank run scene in Mary Poppins - not far off reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 The liquidity drain on Lehman started at about the time Bear Stearnes collapsed. The pressure accelerated in the 6 months prior to its collapse and obviously became a bank run in the last few weeks. The email evidence is all there on the Internet, published as part of the review. Fascinating reading. Of course publicly Lehman said everything is fine, but large parts of the market knew. Back to HSBC. We either have a somewhat overzealous interpretation of AML rules by a bank that got in trouble for applying them badly previously or we have one of the world's most liquid banks in trouble and has kept it secret from the core wholesale market but somehow thinks its balance sheet will be saved by restricting cash withdrawals. Now what is it? Also if you want to stop a bank run the one thing you do not do is restrict customers' access to cash. See the bank run scene in Mary Poppins - not far off reality. I very much doubt the BSHC is on the verge of collapse, but it wouldn't take much to spoke customers and could the UK BSHC cope with a bank run ( and for that matter the UK banking system ), that's the question ? As history shows, where a bank run is concerned, getting in/out early is wise. I'd expect the Co-op must have seen some out-pouring of money last year which couldn't have helped it's position. What are HSBC/first direct customers thinking ? I did see some reports yesterday that they were going to chaneg their policy about withdrawls so maybe it was over-zealous jobs-worths causing the issue. But then again, I wouldn't be giving my money to such people...**** 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinAndPlatonic Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 However back in the REAL world it is still a FACT that HSBC is today still worth 1.55 TRILLION hk dollars... If any of that scaremongering paranoid ******** your calling research had any kind of credibility don't you think they worth an awful lot less? Anyway I personally know a guy that runs HSBC out in HK.. He has known for years that Chinese banking system is a house built on sand. And so for all you people hoping to see the end of the world sometime soon... Sorry... Life goes on.. oo so impressed. Worth 1.55 trillion ..they are until they are not.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 However back in the REAL world it is still a FACT that HSBC is today still worth 1.55 TRILLION hk dollars... If any of that scaremongering paranoid ******** your calling research had any kind of credibility don't you think they worth an awful lot less? Anyway I personally know a guy that runs HSBC out in HK.. He has known for years that Chinese banking system is a house built on sand. And so for all you people hoping to see the end of the world sometime soon... Sorry... Life goes on.. Are any of these assets based in China? Local govt debt? Chinese property? Or is it all in cold hard cash? If it's all in cash then they have 1.55 TRILLION hk dollars, if it's on paper assets then until they are sold there value is mere speculation. LTCM has huge paper assets until they where forced to sell at which point they got wiped out and there leverage started to go exponential once it was realised the paper assets weren't worth the paper they were written on. Banking is all based on trust, if there is a bank run then any bank will become insolvent irrespective of how "solvent" they are before the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJPJP Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 And, if the UK business has a load of assets listed that, on careful examination, turn out to be 90% mortgages on houses like this famous one http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-42016234.html How many of those assets would you like to buy at 100p in the pound if anything at all had even the merest hint of going wrong in any part of the economy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Loo Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Hongkong Shanghai Bailin Company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 DONT PANIC. Meanwhile, I'LL PANIC FIRST Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomandlu Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 ive blocked Jonpoo so i dont have to read his posts...is there any way to block out posts that include his posts? i feel quite sick when i read his rhetoric. I don't mind a few contrary views - indeed, I welcome them - but all the 'dude' ****** is getting right on my tits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 I don't mind a few contrary views - indeed, I welcome them - but all the 'dude' ****** is getting right on my tits. I agree, I don't mind contrary views either, but he is winding me right up. He's obviously an estate agent or the like desperate to show how he is right and we are wrong...except..all he can do is regurgitate all the rubbish we heard already. Worse than that, he's trying to rub our faces in the fact that he thinks there has been no crash. If things were as rosy as he thinks/say, excactly why is he here. I saw his post above before I logged in and thought, what a silly bitter nasty twisted little man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 http://muslimvillage.com/2014/01/27/49218/hsbc-bank-on-verge-of-collapse/ http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article44121.html http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140126091714AA3zDQE Rumour mill in full progress. The trouble with the internet age is...people talk, which probably makes problems 1000000 times worse. The government really need to sort out the bankers...they've had 6 years and there is still no sign of any rational move towards a sustainable banking system...money printing and more debt are unlikely to fix a fractional reserve banking system high on debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie_George Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Missed this one: From the Market Oracle link: London property generated more wealth than entire New Zealand economy (Telegraph)London’s soaring property market generated more wealth than the entire New Zealand economy last year as the value of homes in the capital surged by more than £100 billion, according to new research. The astonishing scale of property wealth in the capital means the 10 most upmarket boroughs alone are valued at £609 billion – more than all the houses in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland added together. Booming demand for flats and houses last year added £106 billion to the total worth of London’s increasingly precious property, now estimated to be worth a record £1.24 trillion, a study by estate agents Savills reveals. The research came amid reports that the last remaining homes in London on the market for less than £100,000 have been snapped up in recent weeks. According to the capital’s estate agents, rapidly increasing prices are failing to deter buyers who still massively outnumber sellers, a sure sign – they claim – that the city’s property bubble shows no sign of bursting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthamptonBear Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) http://muslimvillage...ge-of-collapse/ http://www.marketora...ticle44121.html http://answers.yahoo...26091714AA3zDQE Rumour mill in full progress. The trouble with the internet age is...people talk, which probably makes problems 1000000 times worse. The government really need to sort out the bankers...they've had 6 years and there is still no sign of any rational move towards a sustainable banking system...money printing and more debt are unlikely to fix a fractional reserve banking system high on debt. Oh that's funny. Obviously fictional.... HSBC Director: We've been complicit in billions of dollars of fraud, drug cartel and sanctioned government money laundering. We need to make changes. HSBC middle ranking jobsworth: We could insist on a reason for large scale cash withdrawals... HSBC Director: Yes, wouldn't have made any difference to the fraud and money laundering [so we can continue with that] but looks like we are doing something. some weeks later... HSBC Director: This idea of YOURS, restricting withdrawals has been blown up by internet people, now people think HSBC is going under and its to stop a bank run. HSBC middle ranking jobsworth: Er, we have a bank run.... because of the limit on withdrawals scarring people. None of the other banks will help and HSBC might not survive... Edited January 27, 2014 by NorthamptonBear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stop The Ride Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 PANIC. PANIC FIRST What's that you're saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 http://muslimvillage.com/2014/01/27/49218/hsbc-bank-on-verge-of-collapse/ http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article44121.html http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20140126091714AA3zDQE Rumour mill in full progress. The trouble with the internet age is...people talk, which probably makes problems 1000000 times worse. The government really need to sort out the bankers...they've had 6 years and there is still no sign of any rational move towards a sustainable banking system...money printing and more debt are unlikely to fix a fractional reserve banking system high on debt. There's absolutely no way that the government (or any government) is going to sort out the banks properly because doing so would at the very least massively impact the wealth of those who own the banks or even leave many destitute and/or facing criminal charges. Given that they are the paymasters of politicians of all hues, that's just not going to happen. More fudging of rules, even more lax regulation, more money printing, less transparency all around will be the result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quicken Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 oo so impressed. Worth 1.55 trillion ..they are until they are not.. RBS were the biggest bank in the world, right before they failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Sadman Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 There's absolutely no way that the government (or any government) is going to sort out the banks properly because doing so would at the very least massively impact the wealth of those who own the banks or even leave many destitute and/or facing criminal charges. Given that they are the paymasters of politicians of all hues, that's just not going to happen. More fudging of rules, even more lax regulation, more money printing, less transparency all around will be the result. our government also knows without parasitic banks concentrating wealth in london, london would resemble a windier, less sunny detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) There's absolutely no way that the government (or any government) is going to sort out the banks properly because doing so would at the very least massively impact the wealth of those who own the banks or even leave many destitute and/or facing criminal charges. Given that they are the paymasters of politicians of all hues, that's just not going to happen. More fudging of rules, even more lax regulation, more money printing, less transparency all around will be the result. I agree. That's why one of them will fail again. That's why I log in here every day, because HPC is usually ahead of the game. In the great train bubble it wasn't till the banks failed twice ( and took lots of peoples money with them ) that thegovernment did something about the mess. I expect it will take a Cyprus moment for something to chain. I expect we will have such a moment. Maybe not today, maybe not this month, but sometime fairly soon. Edited January 27, 2014 by TheCountOfNowhere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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