WorkingForTheMan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Anyone watching this? well depressing.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cica Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Nightmare. More BBC attacking of Ron Paul though! They didn't mention he is a doctor himself and has done a ton of free work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynezilla Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Very depressing.. Shows how far the UK has yet to fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superted187 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Nightmare. More BBC attacking of Ron Paul though! They didn't mention he is a doctor himself and has done a ton of free work. But he basically said that someone without medical insurance deserves to die... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cica Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 But he basically said that someone without medical insurance deserves to die... No, he's saying that you risk dying if you don't have a job and can't afford expensive healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoviBoy Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Haven't watched it yet (but saw the news article on it earlier), will watch it later on iplayer Those poor kids. Waiting for all the filthy rich to tell them to get on their bike and look for work, we're all born equal blah blah blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy424 Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The casino economy perfected and very probably coming to Britain via cuts. You end up with both your winnings or losses being magnified so your position in life, who your family is, their wealth etc. matters more than your effort. Like to know how you can encourage people to 'help themselves' when you are slowly being driven insane by not being able to feed your family, living in a tent, having no affordable access to health care. That is not a society I want to live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Bunny Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 BBC AS EVER pretending its the conservatives' fault.#pathetic Obama has given TRILLIONS to Wall St. Otherwise there would be enough money. Just like Clown and Cameron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
council dweller Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The casino economy perfected and very probably coming to Britain via cuts. You end up with both your winnings or losses being magnified so your position in life, who your family is, their wealth etc. matters more than your effort. Like to know how you can encourage people to 'help themselves' when you are slowly being driven insane by not being able to feed your family, living in a tent, having no affordable access to health care. That is not a society I want to live in. Good post. These people will be scarred, not just for life but for generations.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmagooisagovteconomist Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My Older brother was attached to the US customs in the 70's, when he came back having been in many large towns and seeing how the lower part of society lived , told us how degrading, filthy and poor it was. The point being that the middle class(albeit the lower M/c) are now the ones being squeezed, in the states they can take direct action, how long until we have the same here and the ensuing political unrest, From History: Hitler was voted in by the disposessed middle class not the working classes (who were mainly communist), extreme example but this global situation has a long way to play out and given the views of Gingrich the poor should learn to unite or be crushed ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingForTheMan Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 seeing them all queue for medical advice/food/a bed for the night made me think of the 'fema camps' that alex jones et al go on about..maybe thats the next step..for thier 'own good' of course.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNACR Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Terminology has become muddled post-industrialisation. Once most of the working class have joined the middle class, the middle class becomes the new lower class. As is the case in this country the middle class is now the working class and working class is a euphemism for on benefits. The problem seems much worse in the US where so many of their unemployed/impoverished always seem so much more articulate and genuinely employable than their UK counterparts but still their situation persists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plummet expert Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My Older brother was attached to the US customs in the 70's, when he came back having been in many large towns and seeing how the lower part of society lived , told us how degrading, filthy and poor it was. The point being that the middle class(albeit the lower M/c) are now the ones being squeezed, in the states they can take direct action, how long until we have the same here and the ensuing political unrest, From History: Hitler was voted in by the disposessed middle class not the working classes (who were mainly communist), extreme example but this global situation has a long way to play out and given the views of Gingrich the poor should learn to unite or be crushed ! The USA STYLE OF ECONOMY IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU GET in a massive economic area with little regional redistribution and few taxes on the very rich. This is what Europe would be a litlle bit like if it became the USEurope and no regional redistribution took place. Although this would not happen to the same extent because the politics is different here. Germany is finding out first hand how a 'one size fits all' economic policy does not work without massive regional payments passing from the wealthier parts to the poorer parts. The architects of the Euro had no idea what they were doing and how the very cohesion they sought would be the same engine of economic woe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybong Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Haven't watched it yet (but saw the news article on it earlier), will watch it later on iplayer Those poor kids. Waiting for all the filthy rich to tell them to get on their bike and look for work, we're all born equal blah blah blah Live the dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cock-eyed octopus Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I was trying to work out why it seemed so horrific, when the children were evidently not starving, people were not dressed in rags, had some sort of belongings (even in a storm drain) & obviously had had some sort of education. Compared to the poor little mites we regularly see in famine stricken areas, they were rolling in it. I came to the conclusion it was the shame. They had none of the self-entitlement you see in this country. They saw themselves as failures, losers, & it was their responsibility to get out of their situation. I've been reading a lot of Annie Proulx recently, & it chimed in perfectly. They were being told they shouldn't have bothered, & they agreed. As well as the children (obviously) my heart went out to the guy with the hernia. Looked like he was in for a particularly nasty death. And he was still trying, still working to make ends meet despite the pain. That is perhaps the difference in places where starvation is endemic; I don't think there is such a sense of shame, of failure. It is God's will, or fate, or whatever, but ultimately not down to you. I don't know what the answer is. I don't believe our system is working, but I don't want poor people here being in their situation. The only thing I can come up with is a sort of localism, more discretion in handing out benefits, people being more responsible towards their communities - the Big Society!!?? I dunno. Life's difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainlessSteelCat Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The Americans seem to have a particularly unhealthy form of religion. If you do well - it's because you deserve it and God loves you. If you don't - it's your own fault and somehow you aren't measuring up on the God front either. It looks like the US is slowly rotting from the inside out. Their health care system is totally screwed - ours is too but come on. I don't know Ron Paul's politics but if he wants to avoid being soundbited then I'd advise to be a bit more equivocal in saying no, you don't let a guy in a coma who can't pay die. The audience response was the most shocking though. No compassion for their fellow man seems to be the American way. Is it better over here? I'm not sure, suspect we have fewer hungry kids and fewer families living in their cars per capita. The same lack of hope and zombie like existence for the very poor though - even if the soma is more easily affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Re-watch http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01c2y2b/Panorama_Poor_America/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonkers Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 There was a man talking their who chilled me, when talking of the residents of the tent city he said that they would be givven the skills to work. However,, no mention was made of creating jobs, or the skills they already had. It really bought to mind forced labour camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorkingForTheMan Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share Posted February 14, 2012 There was a man talking their who chilled me, when talking of the residents of the tent city he said that they would be givven the skills to work. However,, no mention was made of creating jobs, or the skills they already had. It really bought to mind forced labour camps. my thoughts exactly. there aren't (going to be) the jobs to get all these people back to work and to the lifestyles they have become used to..the only answer is forced labour where they 'earn' enough to pay for a bed, some food, and some basic healthcare in thier camp..and most of them are going to go for it voluntarly..starve to death or die of untreated health complications, or, work and be 'looked after' in a camp for the rest of your life... scary scary stuff...people think it won't happen here with our cushy benefits system, but things can't go continue as they are here... reminds me of a recent fictitious post about a guy whose entire family ended up in a camp - would be good if someone could repost, i have to go to work now! (and for once I feel lucky I can do that!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The casino economy perfected and very probably coming to Britain via cuts. You end up with both your winnings or losses being magnified so your position in life, who your family is, their wealth etc. matters more than your effort. Like to know how you can encourage people to 'help themselves' when you are slowly being driven insane by not being able to feed your family, living in a tent, having no affordable access to health care. That is not a society I want to live in. ...the other side of the coin is, for example: What do you do for a living? I live off of my trust fund.....You are what your ancestors created, be it the sins or the virtues of their fathers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggets Mahoney Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I was trying to work out why it seemed so horrific, when the children were evidently not starving, people were not dressed in rags, had some sort of belongings (even in a storm drain) & obviously had had some sort of education. Compared to the poor little mites we regularly see in famine stricken areas, they were rolling in it. I came to the conclusion it was the shame. They had none of the self-entitlement you see in this country. They saw themselves as failures... Another reason why it seems so horrific is that these people are living in what is widely accepted to be the richest country on Earth. A country which presents itself as being exceptionally benign and so rich and special that it operates 900+ military bases outside of its borders to protect and spread that special goodness Something doesn't add up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggets Mahoney Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Now on Youtube Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pyewackitt Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I was trying to work out why it seemed so horrific, when the children were evidently not starving, people were not dressed in rags, had some sort of belongings (even in a storm drain) & obviously had had some sort of education. Compared to the poor little mites we regularly see in famine stricken areas, they were rolling in it. I came to the conclusion it was the shame. They had none of the self-entitlement you see in this country. They saw themselves as failures, losers, & it was their responsibility to get out of their situation. I've been reading a lot of Annie Proulx recently, & it chimed in perfectly. They were being told they shouldn't have bothered, & they agreed. As well as the children (obviously) my heart went out to the guy with the hernia. Looked like he was in for a particularly nasty death. And he was still trying, still working to make ends meet despite the pain. That is perhaps the difference in places where starvation is endemic; I don't think there is such a sense of shame, of failure. It is God's will, or fate, or whatever, but ultimately not down to you. I don't know what the answer is. I don't believe our system is working, but I don't want poor people here being in their situation. The only thing I can come up with is a sort of localism, more discretion in handing out benefits, people being more responsible towards their communities - the Big Society!!?? I dunno. Life's difficult. Good post - i think this captures some great points. For me the big difference is that our UK welfare system is horribly overinflated and easy to manipulate. I certainly wouldn't want to be in the same position as the US but we have effectively a welfare lottery. Some people get huge London houses and massive benifits payments, child allowance etc. for doing nothing, others get council housing waiting list places for 4-5 years time and still try to find work because they know it's the right thing to do. Any system where people can get more for not working than contributing to society is a bad one! I'm hopefull that the new 26k benifits cap will help us to better distribute the public welfare pot between the needy whilst incentivising the workshy to getting on with finding jobs and being useful. Many families will struggle i have no doubt about that but if the parents are able to prioritise food on the table over sky tv and fags then i think they should find that up to 26k untaxed income will go a long way. I am very happy to here that the families with 100k a year rental bills for councils paying for central london property or 80k per anum in child benifitis will be history - it's been far too long that the system has paid over and above based on poorly implemented principles. As yet i'm not convinced by the big society idea - in concept its all well to encourage people to get more involved in local communities, but it should be over and above local services and jobs - not instead of! Too often i hear of Big society projects where the volunteering public are taking on roles that were once full time paid employment positions and imho that's just taking advantage. I hope the UK doesn't end up like the US and we find a happier and more affordable medium between the US current state and our own but logic and history tell me governments are poor implementers of new ideas and we are likely to overshoot in our new conservatism towards welfare. I would not be shocked to see housing issues/homeless and malnutrition increase over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 No, he's saying that you risk dying if you don't have a job and can't afford expensive healthcare. Did he vote for Obama care then?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopGun Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Another reason why it seems so horrific is that these people are living in what is widely accepted to be the richest country on Earth. A country which presents itself as being exceptionally benign and so rich and special that it operates 900+ military bases outside of its borders to protect and spread that special goodness Something doesn't add up +1 Yet when it comes to the old US of A, nothing ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.