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cica

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  1. I reckon prices will come down as it’s going to dawn on first time buyers that the future is not promised. Anything could be around the corner to trash your economic value. Feels crazy now how predictable the last 20 years have been.
  2. In the banking crisis we bailed the system and the players. We actually need to bail the players now I think.
  3. I've seen a few mentions of IR35 but not many. Surely this is going to have quite a substantial effect on many parts of the London economy.
  4. What exactly is your point? That our democracy isn't really democratic? Or that we have a democracy and Brexit wasn't democratic in the type of democracy we have? Most people are cynical but if we're arguing about Brexit within what we name democracy I don't see a problem with the conversation.
  5. Read the full context - don't be disingenuous. Every single thing we do in democracy is flawed in some sense. Your answers just ooze the fact that you didn't like the outcome. I didn't either. To call it undemocratic is just desperately ridiculous. Electorate participation and parliamentary scrutiny is all we have...I don't think you're thinking about the consequences of holding your principles at all.
  6. Of course it's flawed. Every single thing we do in our democratic processes is flawed. It's hardly some travesty of democracy if it's the same vote we used to join and had cross party parliamentary support, allowed places like Gibraltar to take part (which they may not have depending on the question) and reduced the effectiveness of things like divide and rule/conquer.
  7. But that's not a specific argument against the referendum - that's an argument why the referendum isn't perfect. Coming up with reasons why some democratic process doesn't make much sense can be applied to every single thing. The referendum clearly makes some sense - it's the same question we were asked to join the EC and had a lot of cross-party parliamentary support and did allow places like Gibraltar to take place who should not be allowed to vote to keep the UK in the Customs Union for example in my opinion. Gina Miller forced parliament to put their stamp on enacting article 50 - that was surely a massive mistake by her.
  8. And even the ones that did know what's in the treaties may support them for vastly different reasons than someone else. ...which brings us back to it only ever and always being a vote in principle on a say about how we are governed.
  9. ...and yet it was strongly supported by many in parliament and parliament as a whole. What's ironic is that I'm certain the in/out nature was agreed to make leaving look very unappealing (i.e. is it a vote to leave the SM etc.) The problems with in/out are enormous but that's not really an argument against doing it because all of democracy is a total mess - you can never ever get close to some sort of "perfect" democracy. No system will ever make close to being good. It's a vote that roughly makes sense given the fact it's how we joined, had lots of parliamentary support and allowed places like Gibraltar to take part - clearly we couldn't have Gibraltar voting on the UK remaining in the Customs Union for example.
  10. Yeah, who knows. It's one of the huge imperfections of democracy and ballot papers that we don't judge why people voted so to filter them by some other rules. Maybe you could propose some electoral reform. I don't think you can back up in any meaningful sense that Brexit was a vote for an undeliverable fantasy. This is all your personal interpretation and you got to vote on your values as most people want you to have the opportunity to have. For you to impose your interpretations on others is surely a step too far.
  11. There is no specific anything - we've had a lot of new treaties and more are inevitable. It's a vote on principle - nothing else. As far as I can see, although its been painful as hell, Parliament has been broadly supporting moving forward so there's hardly any travesty of democracy.
  12. There is no need to argue about possible future changes, that is an unknown risk that accompanies every optio Exactly. You're just supporting my point. What you are basically saying is everything is risky but Brexit is too much risk...for you. That's probably why you voted to remain. The line is one you have. I do not buy the argument that Leave supporters are not democrats - there is no democracy if we have to double check the result and double the check - that grinds democracy to a halt. Which brings me back to the point that is painfully obvious as it completely resolves every single argument I've ever heard - Brexit is clearly a vote on principle about how we are governed. It's the same mechanism which we used to join the EC which has become something vastly different from what was envisioned - (expansion, FoM). Anyone can play divide and rule/conquer games - you'd be the first to scream if it was used again you I'm sure. To be clear I'm personally all for FoM but I don't see how anyone can claim Brexit is somehow a travesty of democracy given the parliamentary scrutiny - Gina Miller's case to make Parliament vote to support invoking A50 just solidified it further - talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
  13. I'm not trying to hide anything - I assure you. You've just done the very thing I said in/out did avoid which was attempts of divide and rule/conquer. It's a trick as old as democracy itself as should be derided by all because one day it'll be used against all of us in some way. Your starting point seems to be be that Brexit is inherently "incorrect" in some way if you start using these kinds of arguments. Remain is not a specific form either. We've had many iterations of treaties and surely (please do argue the opposite if you want) more to come. I don't know why people can't see Brexit is clearly a vote on principle. We all have different values and it's an instinctive vote based on how you think we should be governed. It doesn't do anything more than that. There is no best for all but we either have some sort of democracy or we don't.
  14. One thing in/out killed off is attempts of divide and rule/conquer which you are trying to see creep in. We must start at the point where Remaining or Leaving in principle is perfectly noble. If we have a have a parliament willing to do it (and we mostly do given we're at the second reading of the withdrawal act) then I don't see any massive travesty of democracy.
  15. Sort of - how many people thought that though? Surely they'd always choose Germany - even if Brexit didn't exist. Germany might regret having them if they really really shake up the industry - designing their cars with ride/time share in mind by design etc.
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