THE GREAT BIG FAT GREEK THREAD

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-greece-resistancebre85j0oo-20120620,0,6370837.story

Greece's new leaders may want to renegotiate the country's 130 billion euro bailout package with Germany and other lenders but a veteran icon of Greek resistance is pursuing a more ambitious goal with Berlin.

Manolis Glezos, an 89-year-old leftist politicians famed for climbing up to the Acropolis in May 1941 and tearing down the Nazi occupiers' swastika flag, says Germany still owes Greece more in wartime reparations than the entire cost of the bailout.

"We don't owe the Germans money, they owe us," he told Reuters in an interview in his central Athens office, sitting in front of a line of campaign posters for his radical Syriza bloc, which placed second in last Sunday's Greek parliament election.

"The total they owe us is 162 billion euros without interest. If you add 3 percent interest, it's more than a trillion euros. But we can accept a haircut on the interest."

The only trouble is they've accepted the money from other European nations as well haven't they?

Germany expected to pick up the bill on it's own?

The German's will have to hope the UK doesn't get in on this, the bill for the loss of the empire could be very big indeed.

[Bloo Loo]

http://www.chicagotr...0,6370837.story

The only trouble is they've accepted the money from other European nations as well haven't they?

Germany expected to pick up the bill on it's own?

The German's will have to hope the UK doesn't get in on this, the bill for the loss of the empire could be very big indeed.

nah, they probably used the reparations as collaterol for more loans.

Yet greece wants to halt government cutbacks, the very thing that will enable them to live within their means...claiming they cant have more loans if they stop the cutbacks.

the Arithmetic is against them.

[Errol]

[billybong]

On 5 Live radio tonight (Stephen Nolan's show after 22.00) there was some Greek bloke invited onto the show and was expressing the view that Greece should be given another 2 years before starting to pay the bailout back, to sort themselves out and to restructure and to get the deficit down (as if).

He was saying to Nolan that if Nolan was in debt it would take him at least a couple of years to get back on track so Greece would be the same. The comparison is so close don't you know

He said something like "It was economics"

Geniuss.

I don't think Nolan pointed out that at least he has a reasonable income (at least I imagine he has).

Edited June 24, 2012 by billybong

[billybong]

http://

globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/greece-asks-troika-for-moon.html

Greece Asks Troika For Moon; Time Means Money

It will be interesting to see how long the coalition in Greece will last after Germany shoots down Bailout Easing Proposals by Greece to ....

Cut the VAT

Freeze layoffs

Extend timeline to reduce its deficit by two years

Recapitalize lenders

Provide more help for the unemployed

Accelerate payments to providers of government services.

Bloomberg reports Greece Seeks at Least Two-Year Extension to Bailout Goals noting that "New Democracy, Pasok and the Democratic Left agree that plans to cut 150,000 public-sector jobs should be scrapped."

Loosening of Pledges Unacceptable

The coalition parties (New Democracy, Pasok, Democratic Left) can agree to whatever they want. They may as well agree the moon is made of green cheese while requesting slices on a platter.

[workhou]

Probably been noted before but where are all the hungry Greek migrants to do our minimum wage jobs? Or Spanish for that matter? Loads of Poles etc but haven't met many Greeks?

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/wolfgang-sch%C3%A4uble-ask-not-what-germany-can-do-you-ask-how-many-government-workers-you-can-fire

..

Well, the detached retina may have been a fluke, and surely anyone would faint when seeing the Greek cash ledger, but adding insult to injury, and making some wonder about the odd timing of these events, is that it is suddenly becoming public knowledge what was previously only whispered in dark corridors: namely that Greece was pretending to be reforming in exchange for money that Europe was pretending to be paying Greek society.

An AFP report observes that "Greece breached the rules of its EU-IMF loan agreement by taking on some 70,000 public sector staff in two years, undermining efforts to reduce the state payroll, a report said on Sunday."

Seems that this has also delayed the next release of cash as well.

[Errol]

Greece's finance minister has just resigned after less than 2 days at his desk

Greek finance minister

[frederico]

I don't know, Cyprus want a bail out now,

[pl1]

Probably been noted before but where are all the hungry Greek migrants to do our minimum wage jobs? Or Spanish for that matter? Loads of Poles etc but haven't met many Greeks?

Ever heard of Purchasing Power Parity? Poles earn 4 times in the UK what they could in Poland, a Spaniard may earn maybe a few percent more (I don't have the ppp figures for Spain but I'm sure you could find them).

When will people realise that Poles aren't over here out of altruism or "work ethic", they're here because they've hit The Mother Lode:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9184207/Poles-earn-four-times-as-much-in-UK-pressure-group-claims.html

[interestrateripoff]

Ever heard of Purchasing Power Parity? Poles earn 4 times in the UK what they could in Poland, a Spaniard may earn maybe a few percent more (I don't have the ppp figures for Spain but I'm sure you could find them).

When will people realise that Poles aren't over here out of altruism or "work ethic", they're here because they've hit The Mother Lode:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/9184207/Poles-earn-four-times-as-much-in-UK-pressure-group-claims.html

Yep when that gap closes all of those poles will disappear.

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9360282/Debt-crisis-live.html

The Greek Parliament has been sworn in. Meanwhile, president Karolos Papoulias and the Greek delegation have flown to the EU Summit in Brussels using economy class. His two-way ticket is estimated to cost €500 to €600.

Travelling with the riff raff, I bet those travelling economy hated having the politicians with them or did the politicians buy out the whole of economy for security?

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9360282/Debt-crisis-live.html

Greece's national bank says impaired loans in first quarter at 15.5pc, and the pace is accelerating.

Luckily Greek banks aren't insolvent....

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9360282/Debt-crisis-live.html

Greece denies it's broken the rules of its bailout deal by taking on 70,000 public-sector staff during the last two years. The number was reported by Greek weekly To Vima, but a government spokesman said the real figure was more like 20,000:

Greece never broke the agreement. They are talking of about 70,000 recruitment and it's only around 20,000.

Greece is only allowed to take on one worker for every ten that are laid off. The government admits that last year it went over by 1,057 employees, but said that it had been let off by the troika:

The total number of permanent employees who were hired in the public sector during 2011 amounted to 9,057, a figure which is obviously far removed from the data that was reported in the press. There was an excess in the maximum number allowed for recruitment, by 1,057. The troika was informed in a timely manner.

Excellent a trustworthy govt spokesman, that god we have honest govt officials setting the record straight....

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9363868/Debt-crisis-live.html

Retail sales data out from Greece this morning shows a 13.5pc drop in April, month-on-month. That's an improvement on the previous month, which saw a fall of 16.2pc, but hardly worthy of celebration. In just two months that comes to almost an erosion of almost a third of retail sales...

That's almost a total collapse of sales.

Is retail sales important to the Greek economy?

Still at least it won't affect tax revenue...

[Errol]

Greek Bank Deposits Have Biggest One Month Outflow Ever In May

It's official: all those rumors of unprecedented deposit withdrawals in May as Greece was heading into one then another parliamentary election were true. According to just released NBG data, May deposit outflows were €8.5 billion, or the highest on record.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greek-bank-deposits-have-biggest-one-month-outflow-ever-may

[Kilham]

Here we are, watching state failure while munching on popcorn and no sign of Injin anywhere.

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt-crisis-live/9369068/Debt-crisis-Live.html

Thinktank Open Europe has published a blog this morning on how there could be an unexpected plus for Greece from last week's summit:

Kathimerini has an interesting report today suggesting that Greece could attempt to get the cost of its bank recapitalisation removed from its sovereign debt levels – in the same way that Spain is hoping to do. This could well be seen by eurozone leaders as a way to quickly reduce Greece’s debt burden – although we don’t think it will change any of the fundamental problems which it faces.

A large amount of the second Greek bailout – around €50bn – is actually going to Greek banks to help them absorb the large losses they faced from the Greek debt restructuring. With Greek debt currently standing at around €327bn or 160% of GDP, removing €50bn from this figure could provide a significant boost to Greek debt sustainability – bringing the figure down to 136% of GDP.

We've got a plan. If only they could remove some more of Greek debt of the govt books we could be back to where they started. Surely GS could help with this?

[Deckard]

Here we are, watching state failure while munching on popcorn and no sign of Injin anywhere.

He's too busy to come here, since he took that public servant job

[Deckard]

Alternate FinMin warns of deepening recession

Greece is facing a worse-than-expected recession, the new alternate finance minister warned on Tuesday as the debt-hit country prepared to bargain for easier terms on its EU-IMF loan bailout.

Christos Staikouras said the economy would contract by 6.7 percent in 2012 compared to previous forecasts of 4.5 percent, citing figures recently released by the state-run Centre of Planning and Economic Research (KEPE).

"The economic situation is critical,» Staikouras said in a speech at a conference organized by The Economist magazine.

According to KEPE data, the contraction hit 6.5 percent in the first quarter of 2012 on a 12-month basis and will soar to 9.1 percent in the third quarter.

In April the Bank of Greek forecast that GDP would contract by «about 5.0 percent» in 2012, a recession far deeper than the 3.0 percent previously forecast. Greece shrank by 6.9 percent in 2011.

The Greek economy is now in the fifth year of a recession that began with the financial crisis of 2008 and turned worse in 2010 with the eurozone debt crisis.

The poor outlook by the incoming government comes as IMF and EU auditors arrived in Athens to audit government finances and progress on bailout conditions.

The audit comes as Greece's new conservative government takes the full reins of power after winning elections on June 17. [AFP]

Wow... this is so... UNEXPECTED

[interestrateripoff]

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/07/14/uk-greece-poll-idUKBRE86D0BH20120714

Most Greeks want the government to renegotiate the terms of its EU/IMF bailout regardless of the impact this stance would have on the country's future in the eurozone, a poll showed on Saturday.

And they needed to do a poll to find this out?

[interestrateripoff]

Acropolissed: Binge-drinking Brits are the one boom industry left for Greece

Young Britons lie drunk and senseless in the gutter, the foul stench of vomit hangs in the air and girls mutter helplessly about how smashed they are.

Welcome to the Mediterranean resort of Malia, Crete, where cut-price binge drinking is one of the grim knock-on effects of the Greek debt crisis.

The nation that gave the world the Acropolis and democracy is on its knees. And so are many of its tourists after booze prices were slashed to attract custom.

Alcohol consumption is booming...

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.businessinsider.com/greece-flails-about-troika-inspectors-paint-awful-picture-merkel-draws-a-line-german-industry-and-voters-back-her-its-almost-over-for-greece-2012-7

Merkel came out swinging. She would not tolerate that the memorandum that contained the agreed-upon structural reforms would be watered down though she might be willing to delay implementation by “a few weeks”—not the two years the Greek government is seeking. Spokesman Steffen Seibert was even firmer: “Neither the content nor the time frame of the memorandum is up for debate,” he said. Greece must “make great exertions.”

But that’s precisely what has not been happening. Inspectors of the “Troika”—the EU Commission, the European Central Bank, and the International Monetary Fund, which have agreed to bail out Greece under certain “conditions”—were back in Athens earlier in July to check on the agreed-upon structural reforms and meet with government officials to determine if these certain “conditions” have been met. The inspectors already expected the worst, after a three-month hiatus while Greece was embroiled in political turmoil and two elections, an interregnum during which nothing was implemented.

Apparently, it was even worse. Elements of their preliminary report due by the end of July seeped out: it painted an “awful picture”; of the 300 specific measures to be implemented by now, 210 were completely ignored and left by the wayside. This is the report that the Troika will use in deciding whether or not to send the next bailout tranche to Greece. And without this money, Greece will have to default and most likely exit the Eurozone.

If this is accurate at least they've managed to get nearly a 1/3 done...

[billybong]

http://

globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/medicine-is-killing-patient-increasing.html

Farage:

..coming out of the euro "..it would give Greece a chance, because stuck inside the euro you are going to be literally destroyed".

[interestrateripoff]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2012/07/greeces-crisis

AN OLD friend in the aviation business, with years of experience with Greek clients, told me a story that serves as a parable for how the country got into its current state. It concerns the sale of four Airbus long-haul planes after the national flag carrier, Olympic Airways, went bust. In 2007 an American valuation consultancy, Avitas, put a value of $45m on each of the A340-300 planes, which were then eight years old and still airworthy. Offers by outside firms to handle the sale were turned down. Instead a special state-owned firm with hundreds of employees was established, just to flog the four surplus planes.

In 2010 a small German airline called Cirrus offered $23m each for them. But the Greeks rejected this because of a rule that state assets could not be sold for less than 75% of their declared value. They then called for another expert valuation on the planes, which by then had been grounded for a year: the valuers marked them down to just $18m each.

...

Sold eventually in 2012 for $10m each.

I wonder what happened to all the employees working for the newly set up company to flog 4 planes?