What Is Wealth?

[Smell the Fear]

I'd be interested to hear how people define the following terms:

1) The wealth of an individual

2) The wealth of a nation

If you think it is off-topic, bear in mind that most people's largest asset is their home (although largest may only refer to square footage in the near future..... )

Edited September 28, 2005 by Smell the Fear

[Not a moderator]

I think wealth is measured two ways... there is your combined asset wealth, and the culmination of your experience. An asset poor yet experienced person could not afford the latest car, and a materially rich, yet inexperienced person would be useless at a party

[TheReckoning]

The UK is considered one of the top 20 richest nations (no. 19) as a % of GDP? But I don't think that relates to the main population since its an average. I know a lot of people (particularly recent house buyers) just managing to make ends meet. If you look at % of child poverty we are the 4th.

got the stats from www.nationmaster.com

My personal opinion is that a rich government (high taxes) means a poorer people. I think people confuse freedom and choice of products and services (what we have here in the west) with being a 'rich' nation, but having choice does not necessarily mean you can afford that choice. Most of what makes us 'rich' is actually borrowed money and there are lots of things we spend money on we don't need.

[New Darker Law]

I'd be interested to hear how people define the following terms:

1) The wealth of an individual

2) The wealth of a nation

If you think it is off-topic, bear in mind that most people's largest asset is their home (although largest may only refer to square footage in the near future..... )

In my opinion the wealth of a nation is measured in it's resources. This includes natural resources, infrastructure, stable currency, education, fair legal system, healthcare system and many more.

The wealth of an individual can be measured in their ability to access the above.

NDL

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

"That which seems to be wealth may in verity only be the gilded index of far-reaching ruin; a wrecker's handful of coin gleaned from the beach to which he has beguiled an argosy; a camp-follower's bundle of rags unwrapped from the breasts of goodly soldiers dead; the purchase-pieces of potter's fields, wherein shall be buried together the citizen and the stranger." - John Ruskin

Edit: This is also relevant: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~whulet/OGN/Vol1Issue1/Ruskin.htm

Ruskin was my intellectual pin-up at college. Without him I might beworking in the City, materially richer and utterly miserable.

Edited September 29, 2005 by the_duke_of_hazzard

[the_duke_of_hazzard]

Hmmm. Moving quickly on (perhaps better for HPCers):

PS. Don't give me any grief. I'm not a Christian, and I am not promoting these views. As a nomadic soul, I've just always found the second quote very interesting.

I wanted to say something similar, but was afeard of abuse for god-bothering. I'm not a Christian either. But essentially, the quotes attributed to Jesus rule.

PS Manger prices are rocketing - get in before it's too late!

Edited September 29, 2005 by the_duke_of_hazzard

[Swipe]

The UK is considered one of the top 20 richest nations (no. 19) as a % of GDP? But I don't think that relates to the main population since its an average. I know a lot of people (particularly recent house buyers) just managing to make ends meet. If you look at % of child poverty we are the 4th.

got the stats from www.nationmaster.com

So when people spout off about the UK being the 4th richest country in the world they are talking crap? According to that site we are the 7th richest (in terms of GDP). I'd always myself questioned that stat.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp∫=-1

It's about time Joe Public updated his soundbite.

[aclwalker]

So when people spout off about the UK being the 4th richest country in the world they are talking crap? According to that site we are the 7th richest (in terms of GDP). I'd always myself questioned that stat.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp∫=-1

It's about time Joe Public updated his soundbite.

Yeah, I've never believed it either. We used to make everything, cars, ships, trains, electricals, etc., etc. Now what we do made is generally made for foreign owners, meaning that when things get tough they pull the plug on UK sites.

One thought that occurred to me the other day was that, it seems that stopping manufacturing is part and parcel of losing our influence in the world. America seems to be going the same way now.

With China making everything, it looks like they are next.

[HousingBear]

Something which is regularly discussed over on Ecademy, and promoted by the owner Penny Power is the concept of emotional wealth.

Indeed, even though Ecademy is a network of business people trying to network (oops, I mean help each other), wealth has been decribed as:

"What you are left with when your money and assets are taken away"

[LazyDay]

I'd be interested to hear how people define the following terms:

1) The wealth of an individual

2) The wealth of a nation

If you think it is off-topic, bear in mind that most people's largest asset is their home (although largest may only refer to square footage in the near future..... )

If you are looking for a presice definition of the term "wealth" in social science, you may be dissapointed. When social scientists want to be clear in their statements and disallow double meanings they tend to be happy operating other tems as "rent" , "utility function" , "monetary value" , "market value" , "Total assets minus total liabilities", each of them is imperfect but properly defined substition of a word wealth from ordinary language. Each of them may work fine as a substition under some circumstances but is unappropriate under another.

[wriggly]

To define true wealth is not going to be easy:

I Corinthians 2:9

"However, as it is written: 'No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him.'"

Meanwhile the world defines true wealth in terms of ever growing GDP and consumer spending. It's empty and false to make this our prime aim.

[Smell the Fear]

To define true wealth is not going to be easy:

I Corinthians 2:9

"However, as it is written: 'No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him.'"

Meanwhile the world defines true wealth in terms of ever growing GDP and consumer spending. It's empty and false to make this our prime aim.

Exactly. When are going to wake up and realise this? Part of me thinks we are told to believe we are richer, told to believe that a rise in GDP makes us richer, but it isn't true. It is however a good measure for the wealth of the few who have sizeable interests in the economy (major shareholders, the super rich, the investment bankers). As GDP increases, these parties become increasingly wealthy in real terms (i.e the growing gap between rich and poor, with the middle classes being increasingly pulled towards the poor end of the spectrum, not the rich).

We, the many, are slaves for the few.

[LazyDay]

Exactly. When are going to wake up and realise this? Part of me thinks we are told to believe we are richer, told to believe that a rise in GDP makes us richer, but it isn't true. It is however a good measure for the wealth of the few who have sizeable interests in the economy (major shareholders, the super rich, the investment bankers). As GDP increases, these parties become increasingly wealthy in real terms (i.e the growing gap between rich and poor, with the middle classes being increasingly pulled towards the poor end of the spectrum, not the rich).

We, the many, are slaves for the few.

If you run your oun business GDP suddenly begin to make sense for you and you are not a slave for anybody except your customers and your bank (if you have got a loan that is).

[The Masked Tulip]

1. Good health

2. Happiness

Having been thrown off the work treadmill via stress I know how important 1 now is and how it affects 2.

[Mushroom]

A simple sentence I read on 'net once.

"It is human nature to want more".

I thought, that's it, just about sums it all up.

Your individual more may be material or "spiritual", but deny to me that that statement doesn't hold true.

Similarly, Nations want more, comprised as they are of their individuals each wanting more.

[Odakyu-sen]

If you've got your health (and your family's health), you've got just about everything.

[Raven]

"That which seems to be wealth may in verity only be the gilded index of far-reaching ruin; a wrecker's handful of coin gleaned from the beach to which he has beguiled an argosy; a camp-follower's bundle of rags unwrapped from the breasts of goodly soldiers dead; the purchase-pieces of potter's fields, wherein shall be buried together the citizen and the stranger." - John Ruskin

Edit: This is also relevant: http://www.uoguelph.ca/~whulet/OGN/Vol1Issue1/Ruskin.htm

Ruskin was my intellectual pin-up at college. Without him I might beworking in the City, materially richer and utterly miserable.

Just read that page on John Ruskin (thanks duke, seems very interesting, think I may have a read of it) and it occured to me that maybe the government are trying to bankrupt as many people as possible to reafirm and widen their power over everyone, when you think that they have also expanded the public sector vastly it becomes a bit scary (or have I beeen eating tinned food in my basement too long)?.

[twinkle]

Interesting that most people are only mentioning the tangible as wealth. Can it only be measured in fiscal terms? Individual wealth - how about counting your family, friendships, relationships, talents, blessings in your life, even things you enjoy doing - all things that are priceless?

[liquid]

I'd be interested to hear how people define the following terms:

1) The wealth of an individual

2) The wealth of a nation

If you think it is off-topic, bear in mind that most people's largest asset is their home (although largest may only refer to square footage in the near future..... )

I believe the wealth of the individual is to aspire to their potential. The wealth of nations is to support everyone to do the same.

I note a hesitance in bringing this topic up, e.g. whether it is off-topic or not. It could not be more on-topic. Many perceive wealth to be material. In an age of abundant material wealth, it’s time for it to be redefined.

Thank you for bringing forward this topic, it is both refreshing and of substance.

[TheReckoning]

So when people spout off about the UK being the 4th richest country in the world they are talking crap? According to that site we are the 7th richest (in terms of GDP). I'd always myself questioned that stat.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp∫=-1

It's about time Joe Public updated his soundbite.

Agree, thanks for the reference Swipe! I was looking at GDP Per Capita, but I'm no economist so I can't tell you what this means in relative terms- perhaps someone here can.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp_cap

Since everyone else is doing it:

" 'If one of your countrymen becomes poor and sells some of his property, his nearest relative is to come and redeem what his countryman has sold. If, however, a man has no one to redeem it for him but he himself prospers and acquires sufficient means to redeem it, he is to determine the value for the years since he sold it and refund the balance to the man to whom he sold it; he can then go back to his own property. But if he does not acquire the means to repay him, what he sold will remain in the possession of the buyer until the Year of Jubilee. It will be returned in the Jubilee, and he can then go back to his property.

If a man sells a house in a walled city, he retains the right of redemption a full year after its sale. During that time he may redeem it. If it is not redeemed before a full year has passed, the house in the walled city shall belong permanently to the buyer and his descendants. It is not to be returned in the Jubilee. But houses in villages without walls around them are to be considered as open country. They can be redeemed, and they are to be returned in the Jubilee." Leviticus 25: 25-31

[Mushroom]

Some may be interested in:

"Happiness: lessons from a new science". By Professor Richard Layard.

He is an NL advisor though.

[theChuz]

wealth is just the amount of sh*t you own innit, like if you fall over and cant get up cause the bling is well heavy then your mega wealthy. My mate is well wealthy he's got a credit card with a £5K limit.

[Smell the Fear]

wealth is just the amount of sh*t you own innit, like if you fall over and cant get up cause the bling is well heavy then your mega wealthy. My mate is well wealthy he's got a credit card with a £5K limit.

The Chuz, lowering the tone since 4 March 2005.

[The Masked Tulip]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/4289424.stm

[Hopeful Bear]

So when people spout off about the UK being the 4th richest country in the world they are talking crap? According to that site we are the 7th richest (in terms of GDP). I'd always myself questioned that stat.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_gdp∫=-1

When people talk of UK being 4th richest country they mean Gross National Income.

Nationmaster GNI