Hard Times Forcing Folk To Fill Cars With Vegetable Oil

[Caribbean Beauty]

And by "fill" I do not mean the interior, before the usual clowns retort.

Sian and Bill were reporting this today on Breakfast telly (so it must be true), ie a large rise in the use of 1 pound a litre veggie oil to drive diesels, saving about 30% of the costs in the process.

I had heard about this before, but would like any comments - plus to learn if my VW 1.9TDI powered van could drive around on the veggie oil? (Presumably between Lidl, Aldi and Tescos, buying up endless bottles - there-in lies the flaw?).

[Democorruptcy]

And by "fill" I do not mean the interior, before the usual clowns retort.

Sian and Bill were reporting this today on Breakfast telly (so it must be true), ie a large rise in the use of 1 pound a litre veggie oil to drive diesels, saving about 30% of the costs in the process.

I had heard about this before, but would like any comments - plus to learn if my VW 1.9TDI powered van could drive around on the veggie oil? (Presumably between Lidl, Aldi and Tescos, buying up endless bottles - there-in lies the flaw?).

Such as farmers can use red diesel.

85p a litre here http://www.icewww.com/index.aspx?s=Product&p=37

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-red-diesel.htm

[Kilham]

Red diesel is illegal though, last time I checked veg oil isn't. For a while it wasn't worth it as the price wasn't much lower than diesel but for the moment it looks better. Expect the market to correct that soon though.

[headrow]

Veg Oil will freeze in weather we have had over here.

Maybe you'll be alright in the Caribbean.

[Lewis Gordon Pugh]

Red diesel is illegal though, last time I checked veg oil isn't. For a while it wasn't worth it as the price wasn't much lower than diesel but for the moment it looks better. Expect the market to correct that soon though.

Red diesel is not 'illegal'.

But you must pay duty on it if you use it on the road. If you run it on the road you are required to fill in a form and pay duty on the miles done. Same with vege oil.

[RufflesTheGuineaPig]

And by "fill" I do not mean the interior, before the usual clowns retort.

Sian and Bill were reporting this today on Breakfast telly (so it must be true), ie a large rise in the use of 1 pound a litre veggie oil to drive diesels, saving about 30% of the costs in the process.

I had heard about this before, but would like any comments - plus to learn if my VW 1.9TDI powered van could drive around on the veggie oil? (Presumably between Lidl, Aldi and Tescos, buying up endless bottles - there-in lies the flaw?).

If it's a newish van it's unlikely it will take it.... it's mostly older vehicles.

If it IS an older vehicle, your local cash and carry will sell you 25 liter drums cheap enough.

You have a tax-free veg-oil fuel allowance of about 2000 liters each tax year.

[Kilham]

Red diesel is not 'illegal'.

But you must pay duty on it if you use it on the road. If you run it on the road you are required to fill in a form and pay duty on the miles done. Same with vege oil.

For a low volume user (less than 2500 litres pa) veg oil is duty free, I'm sure that wouldn't apply to red diesel.

Edit: Beaten to it. Must type faster..

Edited January 27, 2011 by Kilham

[Lepista]

I would be able to get hold of lots of ex-chippy cooking oil... but it's animal fat. Would I still be OK to use it in a diesel car?

[tahoma]

IIRC HPC poster 'Dom' makes his own bio fuel. You have to declare it and pay tax on it.

There are people selling kits that pre-heat the oil as it enters the engine, this solves the cold weather issue. It would probably wreck a tarty new common rail Diesel though. The fuel provides some of the lubrication to the engine, and the tolerances are tiny. Modern Diesels are not the indestructable 250,000+ miles lumps they once were.

Still, they do up to 60MPG so mustn't grumble.

[winkie]

...what about the recycling of old chip/cooking oil to use in the car...better than throwing it down the drain like some cafes, eateries and takeaways have been known to do.

Edited January 27, 2011 by winkie

[ken_ichikawa]

I would be able to get hold of lots of ex-chippy cooking oil... but it's animal fat. Would I still be OK to use it in a diesel car?

Chippies stopped using animal fat ages ago, they mostly switched to veg oil...

The thing is with animal fat is that it absolutely stinks when used more than a few times even the de-odorised stuff. Though it makes golden chips...

Less scruplous places like my uncles old place mix their old oil to make curries, look closely at it and if you see it is filled with little specks of black carbon then they recycle their oil in such a manner. This kind of curry is HIGHLY carcinogenic.... same if you see chips with little specks all over them too.

Strangely such chippies do better business than clean chippies.

[spongeh]

Why waste your time with new veg oil, just buy the old used stuff from ebay for 60p a litre, search for WVO (waste veg oil)

WVO must be cleaned, filtered and like SVO (straight veg oil) is not suitable for alot of cars.

You can convert it into bio diesel with a little bit of chemistry in your garage and the VW PDi is supposed to run well on this.

[ken_ichikawa]

...what about the recycling of old chip/cooking oil to use in the car...better than throwing it down the drain like some cafes, eateries and takeaways have been known to do.

Read my above post.

Old oil is NEVER thrown down the drain. Namely because it cools while traversing the drain and gets cooled quickly and turns into hard solid blocks of fat which clog up the drains. Picaddily circus was so clogged once they had to bring in mining equipment to declog the drains under the streets.

heh I offer a service to unclog such things, you can't just melt it either as it clogs farther down.

[winkie]

Chippies stopped using animal fat ages ago, they mostly switched to veg oil...

The thing is with animal fat is that it absolutely stinks when used more than a few times even the de-odorised stuff. Though it makes golden chips...

Less scruplous places like my uncles old place mix their old oil to make curries, look closely at it and if you see it is filled with little specks of black carbon then they recycle their oil in such a manner. This kind of curry is HIGHLY carcinogenic.... same if you see chips with little specks all over them too.

Strangely such chippies do better business than clean chippies.

That is disgusting......some places you can smell the rancid fat they use to cook with, turns your stomach yuck.

[ken_ichikawa]

That is disgusting......some places you can smell the rancid fat they use to cook with, turns your stomach yuck.

YOu haven't smelt beef shortening on a Tuesday when they change the oil.... erk that stuff you needed a bag of lemons to get the horrible smell out of your skin.

[winkie]

Read my above post.

Old oil is NEVER thrown down the drain. Namely because it cools while traversing the drain and gets cooled quickly and turns into hard solid blocks of fat which clog up the drains. Picaddily circus was so clogged once they had to bring in mining equipment to declog the drains under the streets.

heh I offer a service to unclog such things, you can't just melt it either as it clogs farther down.

Old oil SHOULD NEVER be thrown down the drain...but I have come across a case where it has and yes it caused insurmountable problems to other local business.

[papag]

I used it for around a year in my 2005 Vectra (10000 miles or so) worked fine mixed it 50/50 with diesel, the veg oil cost around 50 p a litre then, got a new car so stopped using it as if there had been a problem I was told it would invalidate the warranty.

Its not recommended by any new car manufacturer as it can gum up the pistons on twin railed diesel engines, older diesel engines are much more compliant to Veg oil but please check first .

[northwestsmith2]

£1.04 a liter at Asda

10,000 miles save £272 ?

(50mpg £1.34 diesel £1.04 vegetable oil)

Not worth it like it used to be when vegetable oil was half the price of diesel.

[MrPin]

YOu haven't smelt beef shortening on a Tuesday when they change the oil.... erk that stuff you needed a bag of lemons to get the horrible smell out of your skin.

Blimey! Can you run a motorbike on it?

[ken_ichikawa]

Blimey! Can you run a motorbike on it?

Yes, NATO harmonised their bikes (the UK got rid of their harley davidson bikes and armstrong bikes) and they thus dumped a ton of money into a bike which runs on diesel or jet fuel. Thus was born a KLR600 thing which can use veg oil, diesel or jet fuel.

Diesel is not a good idea on bikes though, as the particulate clouds get sucked back into the engine too easily due to the proximity of the exhaust and the air intakes. You get 95mph-150mpg but a bicycle will out accelerate you.

[repetitive bleats]

£1.04 a liter at Asda

10,000 miles save £272 ?

(50mpg £1.34 diesel £1.04 vegetable oil)

Not worth it like it used to be when vegetable oil was half the price of diesel.

agreed. i was using it in my Mitsubishi diesel van about 5 years ago when it was 49p a litre in Lidl (although it was cheaper in 1 litre bottles than the big 3 litre ones so it was still a bit of a eco disaster what with all the empties)

these days it is almost cheaper to cook my chips in diesel.

[deflation]

£1.04 a liter at Asda

10,000 miles save £272 ?

(50mpg £1.34 diesel £1.04 vegetable oil)

Not worth it like it used to be when vegetable oil was half the price of diesel.

I was doing this a lot as soon as the HMRC brought in the rule in July 2007 about not having to bother to register with them unless you were using over 2500 litres a year. Befor that date, you had to register if using veg oil but they couldn't cope because at the time, veg oil was about 50p a litre and diesel had just reached £1 a litre. I remember blokes like me filling their trollies up with sunflower oil in Makro, to the puzzlement of the cashiers. No VAT, it's food.

I used it in 2 cars with no mods. A 1994 Peugeot 1.9 turbodiesel which struggled once winter came, but later, my 1995 Vauxhall Cavalier 1.7 TD absolutely loved it. I even ran it about 80% SVO during the summer of 2009. I would only advise using sunflower or rapeseed oil, unless you have a heater, dual fuel system etc. Basic veg oil is a bit too 'gloopy' (scientific term there ).

As a rule of thumb, most diesels built since 1999 (Peugeots and Citroens etc) are the HDi type with common rail extremely high pressure systems and DO NOT LIKE IT. Bosch fuel pumps generally run OK on it.

I used it in old cars worth only a few hundred quid, the idea of sticking it in a £5000 motor such as an Audi / BMW, I wouldn't try myself!

Edited January 27, 2011 by deflation

[numpty]

in Swansea the police have been doing random checks on cars to see if they are running on cooking oil. Nicknamed the frying squad

It is I believe not an offence to run your car on oil, but not making the declaration to C&E and paying the duty is

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/oct/09/martinwainwright

Edited January 27, 2011 by numpty

[deflation]

in Swansea the police have been doing random checks on cars to see if they are running on cooking oil. Nicknamed the frying squad

It is I believe not an offence to run your car on oil, but not making the declaration to C&E and paying the duty is

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/oct/09/martinwainwright

That article is from 2002, the law changed in July 2007. Pouring SVO into your tank in essence, , makes you a fuel 'producer.' 2500 litres a year, but keep receipts.

http://www.vegoilmotoring.com/eng/legal-stuff

Edited January 27, 2011 by deflation

[Peter Hun]

£1.04 a liter at Asda

10,000 miles save £272 ?

(50mpg £1.34 diesel £1.04 vegetable oil)

Not worth it like it used to be when vegetable oil was half the price of diesel.

The price of vegetable oil went up in 2008 it didn't fall again when the price of rapeseed etc went back down. I'm sure the government were more than happy about it given the number of people using it as fuel.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Peter Hun