Uk It Workers Are Leaving The Uk Because They Are Fed Up

[OnlyMe]

Brownhole's digital economy.

British jobs for british workers.

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/09/uk-it-workers-are-leaving-this-country-because-they-are-fed-up.html

UK IT workers are leaving the UK because they are fed up

By Karl Flinders on September 10, 2010 3:49 PM | No Comments | No TrackBacks

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The number of overseas workers in the UK is driving local talent out. Below is an account from a UK IT professional about why he decided to leave these shores for pastures new.

The post below was in reaction to a blog about the possibility of the UK government offshoring lots of public sector IT jobs. This is a warning to IT professionals and UK plc.

By BobF

"I just got fed up with it all, after 18 years contracting (continuously) I have now taken a permanent job in the Netherlands, this after 6 months out of work and another 6 months working for very low money in the UK (sent out 1,400 CV's in the 6 months I was out of work; I usually do apps support work for SQL, Java & .NET on UNIX/Linux/Windows web apps so hardly due to an obsolete skill set).

Things have definitely changed for the worse in the last 4-5 years as the Intra Company Transfer bandwagon has run out of control in the UK, most of the companies I've worked for have had literally hundreds of Indian Intra Company Transfers staff on board (including a few major Government projects), and I've been to some places where even the network infrastructure and PC/Server support staff are Indian Intra Company Transfers (rotated on a yearly or 6 monthly basis of course).

[pl1]

Brownhole's digital economy.

British jobs for british workers.

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/09/uk-it-workers-are-leaving-this-country-because-they-are-fed-up.html

UK IT workers are leaving the UK because they are fed up

By Karl Flinders on September 10, 2010 3:49 PM | No Comments | No TrackBacks

| More

The number of overseas workers in the UK is driving local talent out. Below is an account from a UK IT professional about why he decided to leave these shores for pastures new.

The post below was in reaction to a blog about the possibility of the UK government offshoring lots of public sector IT jobs. This is a warning to IT professionals and UK plc.

By BobF

"I just got fed up with it all, after 18 years contracting (continuously) I have now taken a permanent job in the Netherlands, this after 6 months out of work and another 6 months working for very low money in the UK (sent out 1,400 CV's in the 6 months I was out of work; I usually do apps support work for SQL, Java & .NET on UNIX/Linux/Windows web apps so hardly due to an obsolete skill set).

Things have definitely changed for the worse in the last 4-5 years as the Intra Company Transfer bandwagon has run out of control in the UK, most of the companies I've worked for have had literally hundreds of Indian Intra Company Transfers staff on board (including a few major Government projects), and I've been to some places where even the network infrastructure and PC/Server support staff are Indian Intra Company Transfers (rotated on a yearly or 6 monthly basis of course).

Agreed it's a total piss take and these companies that blatantly abuse Intra Company Transfers should be severely fined.

It's interesting to note his comment about PC/Server support as these tend to be viewed as somehow safer but clearly they aren't, it's all up for grabs. Those old, late 1990s Computeach adverts (remember them, harking on about the "IT Skills shortage) look laughable now.

[jammo]

Brownhole's digital economy.

British jobs for british workers.

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/09/uk-it-workers-are-leaving-this-country-because-they-are-fed-up.html

UK IT workers are leaving the UK because they are fed up

By Karl Flinders on September 10, 2010 3:49 PM | No Comments | No TrackBacks

| More

The number of overseas workers in the UK is driving local talent out. Below is an account from a UK IT professional about why he decided to leave these shores for pastures new.

The post below was in reaction to a blog about the possibility of the UK government offshoring lots of public sector IT jobs. This is a warning to IT professionals and UK plc.

By BobF

"I just got fed up with it all, after 18 years contracting (continuously) I have now taken a permanent job in the Netherlands, this after 6 months out of work and another 6 months working for very low money in the UK (sent out 1,400 CV's in the 6 months I was out of work; I usually do apps support work for SQL, Java & .NET on UNIX/Linux/Windows web apps so hardly due to an obsolete skill set).

Things have definitely changed for the worse in the last 4-5 years as the Intra Company Transfer bandwagon has run out of control in the UK, most of the companies I've worked for have had literally hundreds of Indian Intra Company Transfers staff on board (including a few major Government projects), and I've been to some places where even the network infrastructure and PC/Server support staff are Indian Intra Company Transfers (rotated on a yearly or 6 monthly basis of course).

In general, UK IT workers should be being paid upwards of 40% more than they currently are. This is based on comparisons against countries where IT workers are in demand, and my own personal opinion. It is tempting to move to a country where IT pays more, houses are affordable AND more spacious, and politics (Ancient greek for poly=many tics=lies) is less ******. There are a limited number of countries where the lion's share of these parameters are true. And so logically, if only I didn't have so many ties here/ family were up for going, I'd go without a second thought. Those that have done I envy tbh.

[Game_Over]

Why are politicians doing this to British workers????????

I just can't understand it other than thinking that they hate ordinary working people and want to destroy the country

[Boom Boom]

In general, UK IT workers should be being paid upwards of 40% more than they currently are. This is based on comparisons against countries where IT workers are in demand, and my own personal opinion. It is tempting to move to a country where IT pays more, houses are affordable AND more spacious, and politics (Ancient greek for poly=many tics=lies) is less ******. There are a limited number of countries where the lion's share of these parameters are true. And so logically, if only I didn't have so many ties here/ family were up for going, I'd go without a second thought. Those that have done I envy tbh.

Funny, isn't it? Low skilled workers are flung on the free market, globalized wage arbitrage pyre, but apparently doing this to higher skilled workers is unfair.

[Boom Boom]

Why are politicians doing this to British workers????????

I just can't understand it other than thinking that they hate ordinary working people and want to destroy the country

It's called Capitalism. You start with a free market, and you end up with corruption at all levels.

[pl1]

This is worth a read:

PCG Site

The PCG look like they have pulled out all the stops to try and reduce this abuse. Any contractors who suspect abuse is happening are actively encouraged to contact them at the email address at the bottom of this page.

[jammo]

Funny, isn't it? Low skilled workers are flung on the free market, globalized wage arbitrage pyre, but apparently doing this to higher skilled workers is unfair.

If you analyze most situations you will find unfairness. Selfishness is manifest in everyone beyond the age of toddler if not before. So everyone is equally subject to it, what are you saying?

Edit: I never said I didn't think low paid workers are not entitled to probably a lot more. I've just not been following other occupations' pay scales globally as I have my own

Edited September 10, 2010 by jammo

[efdemin]

Funny, isn't it? Low skilled workers are flung on the free market, globalized wage arbitrage pyre, but apparently doing this to higher skilled workers is unfair.

Of course it is! Who else is going to pay the taxes to fund the benefits for the unemployed low skilled workers?

But seriously, did anyone ever say it was fair for low skilled jobs either? Two wrongs don't make a right etc.

[ZeroSumGame]

Agreed it's a total piss take and these companies that blatantly abuse Intra Company Transfers should be severely fined.

Not likely. You find me one FTSE100 co. that isn't doing ICT.Couple of years back I returned to a very large energy co. to the English equivalent of my old job.

Wall to wall Wipro 6 Sigma guys. Indigenous workers, shall we say "elsewhere".

I just can't understand it other than thinking that they hate ordinary working people and want to destroy the country

I've long thought that they hate the ordinary workers, but this carving out of the middle class will have much faster consequences. The last shower in no way inhibited job exports.

This chicken will come home to roost quite soon.

Funny, isn't it? Low skilled workers are flung on the free market, globalized wage arbitrage pyre, but apparently doing this to higher skilled workers is unfair.

A lot of people will be permanently losing their livelihoods. The only funny thing about it, is, apart from on here and a few other blogs, no one is even mentioning it.

When are the peasants going to start revolting?

Edited September 10, 2010 by ZeroSumGame

[Charlie The Tramp Returns]

How things have changed in attitudes today to how the indigenous working population are treated by the powerful.

Never again will you see the " I`m Backing Britain" campaign of Harold Wilson`s 1960s.

I still have a roll of I`m Backing Britain stickers given to me to stick on the products I was selling.

If you don`t know the real reason why we are going downhill then I`m glad I saw it, smelt it, and took the necessary precautions to avoid it affecting myself and my family.

[Laughing Gnome]

In general, UK IT workers should be being paid upwards of 40% more than they currently are. This is based on comparisons against countries where IT workers are in demand, and my own personal opinion. It is tempting to move to a country where IT pays more

So, just to be clear: you don't beleive market forces and globalisation are forces for good?

I don't necessarily have a problem with that, I would just like YOU to be clear in your own mind.

And are you one of those who keeps on about, pain, pain pain, we can't avoid the pain, take the medicine blah blah.

I didn't catch the bit about it not including YOU or IT workers.

And if you're tempted to go, just give in to it for goodness sake! What, are you staying out of a sense of duty to the rest of us?

I'm sure we are all very grateful.

[Game_Over]

It's called Capitalism. You start with a free market, and you end up with corruption at all levels.

We don't have a free market and other capitalist countries don't have these policies

So how can it be due to capitalism

Its more to do with buying votes from certain sections of the electorate.

IMHO

[Laughing Gnome]

We don't have a free market and other capitalist countries don't have these policies

So how can it be due to capitalism

Its more to do with buying votes from certain sections of the electorate.

IMHO

I'll just take your last point. More about doing the bidding of their sponsors, IMHO, and the sponsors will take care of public opinion.

[needsleep]

Ok, imagine a situation where at a certain company it takes 10 years hard work to get to a certain technical grade if you are a local worker

Them imagine that the company gets all keen on ICT workers, takes them straight from uni in India, gets them 6 months experience then promotes them to a grade higher than the local workers with 10 years experience. Making them higher grade makes the ICT visa easier to obtain.

Then imagine that the local workers have to mentor, manage workers who are on higher grades than them. And transfer all their knowledge too, the ultimate aim being the local worker gets replaced by ICT workers. Maybe that job will be permanently sent offshore too.

It's not a level playing field for local workers.

[Si1]

most UK IT workers are undisciplined, irresponsible, egotistical and generally sh*t, like UK car workers were 20 years ago

[bogbrush]

It's called Capitalism. You start with a free market, and you end up with corruption at all levels.

I suppose capitalism is to blame for it being so expensive to live in Britain, which is the only reason British IT workers can't work for lower wages and have a good life.

Superficial thinking, as usual.

[porca misèria]

UK IT workers are leaving the UK because they are fed up

Computer Weekly is of course a VI. As I see it, IT workers leave because we get fed up with the attitude of UK companies towards us.

When I got out of the UK in 1985, I was able to afford a decent flat to live in for the first time in my life.

[Boom Boom]

I suppose capitalism is to blame for it being so expensive to live in Britain, which is the only reason British IT workers can't work for lower wages and have a good life.

Superficial thinking, as usual.

Of course it's to blame. You've been here long enough to realise that surely.

[The Knimbies who say No]

I know a couple of IT contractors, one is working for nominally less than he earned over a decade ago, the other works for a building society, and Indian workers are used extensively, and the standard is low, purely due to lack of experience. They can take lower wages because they are often not interested in settling in the UK permanently, rather than a couple of years' earning before heading home to relative affluence, so live in small houses etc.

It's simply a false economy.

[Odin]

I know a couple of IT contractors, one is working for nominally less than he earned over a decade ago, the other works for a building society, and Indian workers are used extensively, and the standard is low, purely due to lack of experience. They can take lower wages because they are often not interested in settling in the UK permanently, rather than a couple of years' earning before heading home to relative affluence, so live in small houses etc.

It's simply a false economy.

The problem is, there are a lot more young waiting in their homelands to fill their role in the UK once an individual decides they have created enough wealth to take and stay home with it.

Asia looks upon the young as a way of providing for the older members of the family. This is one of the reasons why such countries continue to have generation after generation of large famililes and continue to expand population, it is a culture thing, a kind of pyramid scam. One which isn't looking too different to those kinds of ponzi schemes in use in other sectors of the UK culture.

Maybe we can hope the asian currencies get stronger or the UK one gets trashed. However I'm not even sure that will help the problem, since they have an endless supply of people and higher levels of unemployment (or rather lower expectations of pay & working conditions).

[MarkG]

When I got out of the UK in 1985, I was able to afford a decent flat to live in for the first time in my life.

Indeed: when I moved out of the UK in 2007, I bought a house where the kitchen was twice the size of the entire log cabin I used to rent and the mortgage was about the same as the rent for that place. And I've been saving or paying extra lump sums off the mortgage nearly as much each year as I used to earn after tax in the UK.

On the downside, there aren't many other IT companies around here so if I was to lose this job I might have to move or find a different line of work. The big benefit of IT work in the South-East was that there used to be so many companies that if you did lose one job there were about a bazillion other places you could work with less than an hour's commute.

[Johnny Storm]

I know a couple of IT contractors, one is working for nominally less than he earned over a decade ago, the other works for a building society, and Indian workers are used extensively, and the standard is low, purely due to lack of experience. They can take lower wages because they are often not interested in settling in the UK permanently, rather than a couple of years' earning before heading home to relative affluence, so live in small houses etc.

It's simply a false economy.

Of course its low. They can barely take a order for curry over the phone correctly, does anyone really think they can understand complex system requirements and implement them in a language that isnt their own?

BTW after 18 years of contracting continuously he would be absolutely loaded.

Its becoming clear to me that the next generation of people are so badly educated they will not be competing with people 10 years older them, ever.

So we have cheap immigrants, or dumbed down young locals, or expensive experienced people. Tough call

[garybug]

I just completed my Oracle certification, and the blogs / boards / forums are rife with Indian's seeking brain dumps to fast track into the sector. They seem to have no concept of actually learning about the technology & gaining proper experience - it's all about taking shortcuts. This too is reflected in the development work my company sees from it's Indian provider. Some code is OK, but you can tell what has been passed over to the 'juniors', and is appalling.

So, I think that's the key difference. Decent UK staff will always find work (indeed, I know of no-one who is in any way decent who is not in work), and have a sense of going the extra mile, seeing the bigger picture etc. Offshore staff do what is required to the letter, and nothing more - no added value at all.

This is no racist rant either. I have two Indian colleagues (UK born) who state the same.

My own plans are to leave the UK as soon as my other half drops our first sprog. Where I am looking I will have a 1x salary mortgage for 15 years, and somewhere three times the size of my current place.

It really is a no brainer... The UK - shallow, overtaxed, inefficient and corrupt is a joke (& the weather is sh1t too)

[garybug]

So we have cheap immigrants, or dumbed down young locals, or expensive experienced people. Tough call

+1, and then some