Are You 'secretly Poor' Too?

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Typical living expenses in my area for a single person:

/snip numbers

Ignoring the live on beans and air scenarios, your costs do look generally high and £250 on groceries is high, no question. I spend less than that and I eat around 4kg of meat of day. Food is remarkably cheap. Clothes/shoes, you could, sure, you don’t need too, at all, and the costs are going to be lumpy, but £50 for a pair of shoes that last 5 years, isn't unreasonable. Rent/bills are going to depend on location, £500 I recognise, but living in Essex, not far from a direct line into Liverpool Street, I can’t imagine that those are low end costs.

I don’t dispute that in order to maintain a reasonable standard of living in this country; you do need a fairly significant income. But you shouldn't say that 12K is the minimum for a sleep, sh*t and work lifestyle, it isn't.

[council dweller]

Chap I know has just swapped his convertible for a basic Audi A3. The reason he gave was that the convertible needed four new tires and its road tax was due and he didn't have the cash to buy them so it was cheaper to trade the convertible in for a new car as there was no cash required up front.

Maybe this sums up the UK, on the road to poverty but trying to keep up appearances on the way down.

And a better option would be? Trade down to something well within budget...maybe something for 2k.

[D.C.]

Typical living expenses in my area for a single person:

Rent on a 1 bedroom flat = £500 pcm

Council tax = £60 pcm

Food and other consumables for 1 person = £250

Clothes and shoes = £30

Telephone = 30

TV = £11.88

Internet access = £10

Gas/Electric = £60

Care to dispute those figures?

The roof over the head is essential and the council tax unavoidable.

But you did say 'to survive' and then provided 'typical expenses'.

The food is way, way out. You can get a very good diet for a £10 a week spend at the supermarket and other consumables like budget shampoo are dirt cheap compared to branded stuff, I think I paid 39 pence for 1.5 litres of shampoo, it's a bit thin and doesn't come in a funky squeezy bottle with funky brand name but it does the job.

Clothes and shoes cost should be next to nothing, I spend less than that per year.

Telephone/TV/Internet are luxuries, internet most essential as it lets you look for jobs and a skype account provides you with a telephone.

Gas/Elec at £60 is also high if we are talking 'survival'. Turn the hot water off and wash in the cold when it's summer, use a single energy saving light bulb when it's dark, don't have a fridge/freezer, eat more cold foods and have more cold drinks so you don't use the cooker/kettle so often and in winter wear warm clothes and use the heating sparingly.

At times I have been able to see my own breath in the air inside due to not being able to afford to have the heating on, but still survived. Wear a woolly hat to bed and you are toasty enough.

[Concrete Jungle]

Ignoring the live on beans and air scenarios, your costs do look generally high and £250 on groceries is high, no question. I spend less than that and I eat around 4kg of meat of day. Food is remarkably cheap. Clothes/shoes, you could, sure, you don’t need too, at all, and the costs are going to be lumpy, but £50 for a pair of shoes that last 5 years, isn't unreasonable. Rent/bills are going to depend on location, £500 I recognise, but living in Essex, not far from a direct line into Liverpool Street, I can’t imagine that those are low end costs.

I don’t dispute that in order to maintain a reasonable standard of living in this country; you do need a fairly significant income. But you shouldn't say that 12K is the minimum for a sleep, sh*t and work lifestyle, it isn't.

[Chest Rockwell]

Kin hell Chest, I presume you're well out of that.

Oh yes mate...well out! There was one last 'housing ladder' attempt after we split...when we were still on talking terms. I remember talking to her on the phone about the possibility of myself going part time at my work and concentrating on building up the projects mentioned in my last post above. I remember the conversation well...I was sat in my car in London just around the corner from the Tower of London in the most expensive bloody car park ever - but my company was paying. I had just done a presentation with my work on that bloomin boat that permantly anchored on the Thames...god knows why it was held there but it was the 'pre-crunch' days.

Anyway, I was chatting with her that I was getting tired of all the driving and flying etc and was considering accepting a part time role on one the company's contracts. The logic being that I could then devote the rest of the time WITH HER to the projects which at that time looked pretty good money-wise and also have more time with baby too as the everything would be local. And her response to my long winded, long thought out plan of action?

"So how will you get a mortgage?"

I just remember taking the phone away from my ear and just looking it whilst doing a WTF expression at it! I decided then and there to just cancel the whole plan and stay at work full time. I had to see through commitments till the end of 2009 but then knocked them on the head and got back my weekends and evenings...but I managed to kill alot of debts with the proceeds...actually that's just reminded me that the last tax year's corporation tax bill is due! Feck! :angry:

[newbonic]

When I was a kid, my mam had a saying for folks who lived like this.

"All fur coat and no knickers"

or

"Nice car, nothing in the fridge"

.....

When I were a lad in the 70s, such people were scathingly called '10 bob millionaires'. But our parents had been raised in the super austere 1940s and '50s, and had a totally different outlook to debt (it was a Bad Thing). I guess for many of those that grew up in the 80s and 90s, debt just lost its stigma somewhere down the line.

Re the OP though; it's hard for me to have any sympathy for her. She says her hubby is self employed, but then hurriedly qualifies it by adding 'professionally self employed' (so not a scumbag tradesman then eh?). And then goes on to cheat a plumber out of 33% of their agreed payment.

[EUBanana]

my head was in my hands reading that Chest.It happened to a friedn of mine.no writer as yet,has managed to capture the frenzy that people were working themselves into over 'getting on the ladder' in the noughties.

In his case,I tried so hard to talk her out of it,he didn't want to but got sucked in as he wasn't strong enough.Her family were totally behind her,you know,the old 'foot on the ladder' bull****.Now they sit there,facing 25 years in a dumpthat was meant to be a stepping stone to eternal wealth.

Me and my ex STRed in 2007.I took a lot of heat for forcing it,but I could see this mess coming.Her friends and family jsut did not get it.For a couple of years all I heard was 'I want to buy a house',even though we rented a nice pad.It was never good enough.People sort of sneered back then in middle class circles if you rented.BTLer's laughed at you(and I know a few).Rather live a sh1thole that the bank owns on our behalf.It was hard being different.It was a mania.It was mad.I look back and can't believe how strong it was.Virtually all of my friends thought I was a loon until maybe 2 years ago.Now the penny is dropping but for many,it's too late.The die is cast,the tragedy has begun.

From what you say,you tried to do the right thing.And that's important.But when you fight the Ponzi,the price can be heavy.

These sorts of tales are why I really have no sympathy for these fekkers. They treated everybody with a brain like shit.

"Who the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad".

[juvenal]

A man after my own heart

I'm another. Money worries? None.

[Vested Disinterest]

Re: Chest Rockwell's situation

My wife still apologises when she says we are renting (usually "we're only renting" - I annoyingly correct her!) but we are both happy (well, not stressed anyway) that we have savings and are not trapped. In fact the place we rent is much better than the places most of our friends have bought around 2005.

[juvenal]

In stark contrast to the 'secretly minted' on here..

I wonder what some of these people think when they see people like me on the street, with my 15-year old motor, scruffy jeans, messy hair etc.

I think I'm either looking in a mirror, or my brother is in town.

[Rozza]

I think the most pertinant question on here should be "are you secretly not poor"

Speaking for myself i have a nice rental, dont spend a lot, bring packed lunch to work etc, drive a cheap old banger and never buy clothes nowadays, im a scruffy urchin and not bothered about it.

But i have money in the bank, can afford to lose my job for a while (would rather not) and dont worry where the next meal is coming from.

Surely its better that way?

[The Knimbies who say No]

I think I'm either looking in a mirror, or my brother is in town.

I'll keep an eye out for ya..

[DeepLurker]

I think the most pertinant question on here should be "are you secretly not poor"

Speaking for myself i have a nice rental, dont spend a lot, bring packed lunch to work etc, drive a cheap old banger and never buy clothes nowadays, im a scruffy urchin and not bothered about it.

But i have money in the bank, can afford to lose my job for a while (would rather not) and dont worry where the next meal is coming from.

Surely its better that way?

That, in a nutshell, is wealth.

[Chest Rockwell]

Re: Chest Rockwell's situation

My wife still apologises when she says we are renting (usually "we're only renting" - I annoyingly correct her!) but we are both happy (well, not stressed anyway) that we have savings and are not trapped. In fact the place we rent is much better than the places most of our friends have bought around 2005.

Well mate...my situation is getting better I have to admit. I'm not locked into any big debt commitments and am basically free to move from my rented accomodation. But it's a nice little house with a great landlord that takes care of all the work that needs doing.

[MrPin]

Chap I know has just swapped his convertible for a basic Audi A3. The reason he gave was that the convertible needed four new tires and its road tax was due and he didn't have the cash to buy them so it was cheaper to trade the convertible in for a new car as there was no cash required up front.

Actually I reckon it's because aliens can read your mind thru the fabric of a soft-top.

My current vehicle does not even have the sun-roof!

[CountryMove]

"I can't offer you a drink. We haven't had any sugar or coffee or tea in for the last 3 days. DH and I are drinking the DC's squash with boiling water in it if you can stomach that. And yet I have a first class degree in Classics and we live in a house that people often pause outside to look at wistfully.

The brake warning light has been on in my car for the last 3 weeks. I'm braking really gently and they seem fine. It ony passed it's MOT 2 months ago so I don't think the brakes can have worn out that fast. Not that it matters I can't take it to a garage anyway"

I cannot find a word or emoticon suitable!!

[MrPin]

The brake warning light has been on in my car for the last 3 weeks. I'm braking really gently and they seem fine. It ony passed it's MOT 2 months ago so I don't think the brakes can have worn out that fast. Not that it matters I can't take it to a garage anyway"[/i]

I cannot find a word or emoticon suitable!!

Please get new brake pads! That's what the little light means!

[mitchbux]

It suggests to me that their grip on that class is very precarious and that they are one generation away from lower middle or upper working class. They don't seem to realise that in the aristocracy and upper middle classes, being 'shabby genteel' is perfectly acceptable and having a load of flash new tat marks you out as being jumped up.

+1

I have one mate who is listed in Buerks Peerage (I only know that because someone else told me). Guess which of my mates drives the shabbiest car. It's even older and scruffier than mine.

[pilchardthecat]

"I can't offer you a drink. We haven't had any sugar or coffee or tea in for the last 3 days. DH and I are drinking the DC's squash with boiling water in it if you can stomach that. And yet I have a first class degree in Classics and we live in a house that people often pause outside to look at wistfully.

The brake warning light has been on in my car for the last 3 weeks. I'm braking really gently and they seem fine. It ony passed it's MOT 2 months ago so I don't think the brakes can have worn out that fast. Not that it matters I can't take it to a garage anyway"

They might not do Darwin in classics, but they may be about to learn all about it empirically.....

[TwoWolves]

And yet I have a first class degree in Classics and we live in a house that people often pause outside to look at wistfully.

I cannot find a word or emoticon suitable!!

New Labour voter!

[CountryMove]

By skinters Mon 12-Jul-10 23:47:04

"Our mortgage is already interest only"

[Kurt Barlow]

2002-2005 I lived with a woman who became obsessed with the ponzi. Similarities with Chests account

We bought a house in 2003 although I put in 5/6 of the equity and thank god I took out a deed of trust. She put fook all in due to previous debts. The House was a 4 bed detached in nice area. Mortgage was approx 55% of LTV

To sum it up.

The House wasn't good enough and she demanded i took out a £40K loan to do it up. The House was adequate and quite functional and my view was to upgrade as we saved.

In 3 years had six holidays which I paid for - Kos, Mauritius, Ireland, France, Switzerland, Spain. However never satisfied - 3 star hotel in Mauritius not good enough

Spring 2005 sees over priced des res up for sale. To purchase would have involved mortgaging myself 6x gross salary. Told that Bro in law (Mortgage Broker) would sort out the mortgage. I Refused point blank. months of rows.

Autumn 2005 she ran off with Bro In Laws best mate (who dumped her 3 weeks later)

Fortunately no kids.

[CountryMove]

New Labour voter!

I hope you are referring to the Mumsnet poster with the degree in Classics and not me!!

[Chest Rockwell]

Please get new brake pads! That's what the little light means!

It's amazing that they just ignore things like...err...safety?

[brassed off brit]

I think the old series" keeping up appearances" was way before its time, a nation of hyacynth buck'ets driving their other halves mad on one side and the brother Oswald on the other.

My family is the same, me as Oswald( could give a shit about money! and happy!) my sis as hyacynth. Get this she recently bought a new car and promptly dented the front wing on her drive wall, what does she do? trades it in for another new car losing thousands on the deal. Why? because she no longer considered it new as it had been repaired.

Oh and she works for the public sector! so is highly likely to lose her job but cares less as her partner will pick up the slack . I worry she will find herself up the smelly creek, but does she listen.....no! They are now considering buying a doer upper house as its a "bargain" and the housing market will not go lower!

My warnings are going unheeded!

Needless to say I dont speak to her much as it generally degrades into an argument about my/ her lifestyles.

Even thinking about her gets me wriled up! and it takes quite a bit to get me going!

Rant about stupid rellys over!