Families Are Dumbf****!

[Battenberg]

I see a lot of posters are now trying to rationalise this woman's behaviour. But think of it like this.

I don't see it like that. I think what is being suggested is that Ozz rises above it and doesn't get drawn down to her level by entering into a slanging match.

You have said you behaved differently from what your boss had expected therefore catching him off his guard. If this women doesn't get her usually reaction but is met with a calm and rational approach perhaps it will equally unnerve her.

[ccc]

****** me, when did this country start hating kids so much?

Nothing wrong with kids. However there are places where they should not be present - because they will make a nuisance of themselves and spoil the enjoyment of others.

In your bed when you are trying to bang your bird is one.

On the set of a porn movie is another.

At a wedding is another.

In the middle of a warzone is also such a place.

I have been to 2 weddings. The noise the kids made was horrific and the selfish parents(Not all but most) didn't even take them outside as they didn't want to miss it.

Just ban kids and you don't have to worry about it. The kids couldn't give a flying ******.

And yes there are kids who are well behaved and would be welcome. However it would be difficult to prove this either way prior to the ceremony. Easiest for everyone just to ban them outright. Although ban is probably the wrong word.

How is this for an idea. Set up an event for the kids to go to, that they will enjoy, whilst the wedding is going on. Then everyone is happy. Some properly supervised fun type play place or whatever kids do these days. Who knows.

[fleabittenmoggie]

Chop the b*t*hes f*****g head off with an axe. Spit on her lifeless body then laugh manically for several minutes.

Don't forget to urinate on the corpse when you're finished laughing.

[ccc]

highlighted above is the problem. There is a river at the back of the garden (unfenced) and a swimming pool in the garden.

If any of those kids were to drown, who do you think would be blamed?

Blame the local paedo. Every area has one. Nobody would argue. Job done. Paedo in jail. Everyone is a winner. Except the kids of course.

[Wahoo]

highlighted above is the problem. There is a river at the back of the garden (unfenced) and a swimming pool in the garden.

If any of those kids were to drown, who do you think would be blamed?

Not the parents!!!!

Not meant as a dig at you Ozz. More a cultural thing.

[finallysold]

I don't see it like that. I think what is being suggested is that Ozz rises above it and doesn't get drawn down to her level by entering into a slanging match.

You have said you behaved differently from what your boss had expected therefore catching him off his guard. If this women doesn't get her usually reaction but is met with a calm and rational approach perhaps it will equally unnerve her.

exactly, you dont have to be chummy with her or become her best friend. she is a part of his family and his brother presumably loves her. for the sake of brother and niece, you should try and 'accommodate' her within reason. if after that she still goes on, then ozz should let the ball be in her court and not bother anymore

true, you should not have to put up with this behaviour and i am not saying he should. but she is family and it is so much easier if everyone just gets on instead of being hostile. too much energy wasted in being cross with someone. just recognise her character and keep it pleasant. you dont have to pander to her. just be nice upto a point and ignore beyond that.

afterall it is your wedding and you want it to be pleasant and memorable.

[thombleached]

Nothing wrong with kids. However there are places where they should not be present - because they will make a nuisance of themselves and spoil the enjoyment of others.

In your bed when you are trying to bang your bird is one.

On the set of a porn movie is another.

At a wedding is another.

In the middle of a warzone is also such a place.

Add pubs to the list.

Or at least pubs that don't serve food (real pubs).

[Guest X-QUORK]

How is this for an idea. Set up an event for the kids to go to, that they will enjoy, whilst the wedding is going on. Then everyone is happy. Some properly supervised fun type play place or whatever kids do these days. Who knows.

Exactly what my cousin did at her wedding a couple of weeks ago...they'd very wisely designated a sideroom as the kids play area. This meant that the kids had toys to play with, and parents had somewhere to take the kids when they started getting a bit raucous. It was one of the most relaxing and enjoyable weddings I've been to.

I don't know how you can list weddings alongside lovemaking as activities where kids should be banned! Is the term "family"...erm, familiar?

[Lagerkhan]

Exactly what my cousin did at her wedding a couple of weeks ago...they'd very wisely designated a sideroom as the kids play area. This meant that the kids had toys to play with, and parents had somewhere to take the kids when they started getting a bit raucous. It was one of the most relaxing and enjoyable weddings I've been to.

I don't know how you can list weddings alongside lovemaking as activities where kids should be banned! Is the term "family"...erm, familiar?

No children at weddings?

its one more of the unpleasant manifestations of the modern insular consumer units that now pass for families / people. People simply don’t want their “perfect day” ruined by the god awful inconvenience of other human beings being around. I find such occasions utterly soulless and I will not attend a wedding without my children.

FWIW I find the expectation of a “perfect day” utterly laughable. It’s not about the venue, the dress, the church, the weather, your best man; her bridesmaid sit’s about making a commitment. If you need all the associated commercialism to be “perfect” you probably shouldn’t get married as high expectations are a common cause of disappointment. I’ve seen women cry because it’s raining….. FFS

It has to be said however that it is entirely possible to manage children at a wedding without spoiling it for those that for whatever reason (inexplicably in my view) hate children. However, it is usually seen as easier to just ban em so that’s what happens.

I got married in a registry office to the woman I love with upwards of 15 kids from 6 months to 13 years being present. It was chaos but brilliant fun. Luckily my wife is of a similar mind.

[ccc]

The problem is simple. Many parents cannot control their children. They also do not want to take them outside. So you have a few kids screaming non-stop for much of the ceremony.

Now if you don't have a problem with this and find it perfectly ok and it is all just 'part of the atmosphere' - then fine. Up to yourself. Your wedding. Do what you want.

However I cannot imagine one person who was ever up on the alter, in such a situation, and NOT mumbling under their breath 'Shut the ****** up ya wee ****'

Children screaming is annoying whatever way you look at it. There is no argument on this point. So why you would want to choose for them to be at a wedding I have no idea.

You cannot control the weather on the day. However you can control whether children are persent or not. Would anyone, on a nice sunny day, choose to drag over a huge big black cloud just above the church - if they had this power ? Of course not. So why would you choose to have 20 kids in the Church, when you know the chances are at least a couple of them are going to start screming and gving anyone a headache ? Especially when the said children would also rather be somehwere else !!??

[swissy_fit]

No children at weddings?

its one more of the unpleasant manifestations of the modern insular consumer units that now pass for families / people. People simply don’t want their “perfect day” ruined by the god awful inconvenience of other human beings being around. I find such occasions utterly soulless and I will not attend a wedding without my children.

FWIW I find the expectation of a “perfect day” utterly laughable. It’s not about the venue, the dress, the church, the weather, your best man; her bridesmaid sit’s about making a commitment. If you need all the associated commercialism to be “perfect” you probably shouldn’t get married as high expectations are a common cause of disappointment. I’ve seen women cry because it’s raining….. FFS

It has to be said however that it is entirely possible to manage children at a wedding without spoiling it for those that for whatever reason (inexplicably in my view) hate children. However, it is usually seen as easier to just ban em so that’s what happens.

I got married in a registry office to the woman I love with upwards of 15 kids from 6 months to 13 years being present. It was chaos but brilliant fun. Luckily my wife is of a similar mind.

+1

[ccc]

its one more of the unpleasant manifestations of the modern insular consumer units that now pass for families / people. People simply don’t want their “perfect day” ruined by the god awful inconvenience of other human beings being around. I find such occasions utterly soulless and I will not attend a wedding without my children

So selfish it is unreal. A wedding is for the 2 people at the alter. They can decide what the ****** they want. If they don't want their day ruined by incredibly annoying high pitched screams ? That is up to them. It is their day afterall. Would you like me to bring a group of kids to your bedroom and scream in your ear all night ? Why not ? Oh yes - it is your time when you are trying to sleep and you should be able to have peace if you want. Your own kids are an entirely different matter. You can do what they want with them.

Honestly - have a read above of what you have said - YOU WILL NOT attend a wedding without your children ?! ****** me the selfishness is on a whole different level.

[Lagerkhan]

So selfish it is unreal. A wedding is for the 2 people at the alter. They can decide what the ****** they want. If they don't want their day ruined by incredibly annoying high pitched screams ? That is up to them. It is their day afterall. Would you like me to bring a group of kids to your bedroom and scream in your ear all night ? Why not ? Oh yes - it is your time when you are trying to sleep and you should be able to have peace if you want. Your own kids are an entirely different matter. You can do what they want with them.

Honestly - have a read above of what you have said - YOU WILL NOT attend a wedding without your children ?! ****** me the selfishness is on a whole different level.

No, it's not giving in to the selfish wishes of those getting married. They after all will still get married. I have no problem with people making selfish decisions to attain their aim. By any definition, exluding people from any occasion is selfish. I won't however be a part of it. My children funnily enough are important to me. I wasn't saying having been requested not to bring kids that I would. That would be mental. But if they can do without my kids they can do without me and my wife too.

You are aware that kids can be well behaved and a source of great joy aren't you? Other people's too?

[Si1]

So selfish it is unreal. A wedding is for the 2 people at the alter. They can decide what the ****** they want. If they don't want their day ruined by incredibly annoying high pitched screams ? That is up to them. It is their day afterall. Would you like me to bring a group of kids to your bedroom and scream in your ear all night ? Why not ? Oh yes - it is your time when you are trying to sleep and you should be able to have peace if you want. Your own kids are an entirely different matter. You can do what they want with them.

Honestly - have a read above of what you have said - YOU WILL NOT attend a wedding without your children ?! ****** me the selfishness is on a whole different level.

agreed

a wedding is an act of vows attended by whoeever the couple want to attend. end of. I want kiddies at mine but I cannot tell others what they should have.

To give this SIL the time of day following this charade is to be a willing doormat, imho. If the SIL is otherwise a reasonable person then you may end up getting on again in the future, who knows, but don't make a first move, imho, expect an apology first.

[Guest X-QUORK]

So selfish it is unreal. A wedding is for the 2 people at the alter. They can decide what the ****** they want. If they don't want their day ruined by incredibly annoying high pitched screams ? That is up to them. It is their day afterall. Would you like me to bring a group of kids to your bedroom and scream in your ear all night ? Why not ? Oh yes - it is your time when you are trying to sleep and you should be able to have peace if you want. Your own kids are an entirely different matter. You can do what they want with them.

Honestly - have a read above of what you have said - YOU WILL NOT attend a wedding without your children ?! ****** me the selfishness is on a whole different level.

What about the elderly? They can make the odd inappropriate noise sometimes. Better scrub anyone with a cold, don't want any inadvertent coughs do we? Have I mentioned the disabled? Especially the mongy ones.

[Si1]

By any definition, exluding people from any occasion is selfish.

this is just plain incorrect

[Lagerkhan]

this is just plain incorrect

Actually without context you may be right. However,A rational person or entity deciding to exclude a person or a group of persons for their own perceived benefit is what then?

Note I'm not passing a value judgement on "selfishness". I've already agreed that people are free to do whatever they want on their special day. I just find it a little sad that as a society we're moving towards a less inclusive place. All decisions are selfish to some degree or another. I didn't invite my cousin to my wedding for example. He's a ****.

selfish

"devoted to or caring only for oneself; concerned primarily with one's own interests, benefits, welfare, etc., regardless of others."

[Kingding]

A rational person or entity deciding to exclude a person or a group of persons for their own perceived benefit is what then?

Note I'm not passing a value judgement on "selfishness". I've already agreed that people are free to do whatever they want on their special day. I just find it a little sad that as a society we're moving towards a less inclusive place.

So you think Ozz should invite the sister in law then?

[swissy_fit]

The problem is simple. Many parents cannot control their children. They also do not want to take them outside. So you have a few kids screaming non-stop for much of the ceremony.

Now if you don't have a problem with this and find it perfectly ok and it is all just 'part of the atmosphere' - then fine. Up to yourself. Your wedding. Do what you want.

However I cannot imagine one person who was ever up on the alter, in such a situation, and NOT mumbling under their breath 'Shut the ****** up ya wee ****'

Children screaming is annoying whatever way you look at it. There is no argument on this point. So why you would want to choose for them to be at a wedding I have no idea.

You cannot control the weather on the day. However you can control whether children are persent or not. Would anyone, on a nice sunny day, choose to drag over a huge big black cloud just above the church - if they had this power ? Of course not. So why would you choose to have 20 kids in the Church, when you know the chances are at least a couple of them are going to start screming and gving anyone a headache ? Especially when the said children would also rather be somehwere else !!??

WTF?

<Victorian Dad rant mode on>

Why can't parents control their children? They can! If they choose.

They can also take them outside.

If my kids started screaming in a wedding, they'd be outside in seconds even if it was tipping down. If there was nothing wrong with them and they were of speaking/understanding age they'd be punished for it as I would have been, consideration for others starts early.

Same goes for any of my (many) nieces and nephews, which probably explains why children have not presented a problem at any of the family weddings.

I'd be very surprised if I haven't attended more weddings than anyone on this forum(unless there is a vicar or registry officer posting), most were 30-40 years ago and kids were always present, only the occasional baby screamed and the mother ALWAYS went outside with it if that happened.

It seems to me that you're saying your friends and family are incompetent parents if you don't invite their children.

I'm just picturing my Brazilian wifes face if I said not to invite children to a family function.

<Victorian Dad rant mode off>

All that said, a bouncy castle and a couple of childminders will never be a bad thing at the reception....

[I_Claudius]

So selfish it is unreal. A wedding is for the 2 people at the alter. They can decide what the ****** they want. If they don't want their day ruined by incredibly annoying high pitched screams ?

Every single wedding I have been to has had several kids in attendance, none have had the day ruined by incredibly annoying high pitched screams. There is more to children than that.

I'd of course respect the wishes of someone who expressly didn't want any children at their wedding; they'd be missing out imo but it is their day.

[Lagerkhan]

So you think Ozz should invite the sister in law then?

No chance, she's an adult he should tell her to ****** off.

I'm aware that some people find children difficult to enjoy though it seems hereabouts there are those that find them difficult to tolerate. For me that's a shame. I'm never happier than when I'm with my now extended family and their kids.

Horses for courses I guess.

[Kingding]

No chance, she's an adult he should tell her to ****** off.

Vunderbar!

Spot on.

[Boomer Baby]

If by posting you were looking for confirmation your SIL has behaved badly then you've deservedly got that!

Obviously, it's your and your finace's wedding day, you choose how it's going to work and anyone else in the family who wants to offer an opinion should respect your decision. That your SIL finds it hard to accept your approach is a great shame and the way she has handled it is insensitive, rude and offensive.

So, she's someone who finds it impossible to express herself in a sane and sensible manner but that doesn't make her into a control freak or totally bad person let alone the internet-diagnosed psychotic that some people would have you believe.

However, while she has unarguably behaved badly, is there any possibility you foresaw this would be a difficult subject and tried to avoid meeting it head on?

For example, particularly in a family where you have a good enough relationship to socialise with your brother and his wife, (i) why didn't you think it worthwhile explaining the decision about not choosing your niece as a bridesmaid in advance, (ii) when asked about this, why did you duck the question by saying it was your fiance's decision and (iii) why did you only later bring up the safety issue regarding the river and pool?

By saying it was your fiance's decision, isn't it at least possible that your SIL feels you might well have been happy to have your niece as a bridesmaid but were stopped in this by your fiance? If that is now in your SIL's head then the safety issue will not make her change her opinion but reinforce it as she may assume this is something thrown into the equation once the damage is done.

If you're content to see the relationship with your SIL ruined for ever then you have all the advice in this thread you could possibly need although I'd personally take a raincheck on the hitman.

Otherwise, rather than writing, texting or ignoring her, why not explain to your brother and fiance what you're doing then call your SIL and invite her out for a drink to talk it through? I'm sure that even suggesting this would be difficult, ...what do you want to talk about....you've made your decision ....etc but it's the act of someone who can rise above a petty squabble!

Will it work? Quite possibly not but gambling an hour or two of difficult conversation against a lifetime of sniping, cold-shouldering and pointless expenditure of nervous energy seems like reasonable odds.

Whatever you decide, congratulations on your wedding; I hope you both have a great day and life thereafter!

[I_Claudius]

Children screaming is annoying whatever way you look at it. There is no argument on this point. So why you would want to choose for them to be at a wedding I have no idea.

You cannot control the weather on the day. However you can control whether children are persent or not. Would anyone, on a nice sunny day, choose to drag over a huge big black cloud just above the church - if they had this power ? Of course not. So why would you choose to have 20 kids in the Church, when you know the chances are at least a couple of them are going to start screaming and giving anyone a headache ? Especially when the said children would also rather be somehwere else !!??

Your comparison of kids to a huge day ruining black cloud is a bit twisted imo. It may surprise to find that many people find a lot joy in the company of kids; they're certainly no more annoying than the embarrassing old pissed up uncle that always seem to crop up.

You're coming across a bit David Meldrew imo.

[Woot]

highlighted above is the problem. There is a river at the back of the garden (unfenced) and a swimming pool in the garden.

If any of those kids were to drown, who do you think would be blamed?

Not the parents!!!!

Indeed. We have attended a couple of weddings where the service was completely inaudible due to children running around during the service: even the vows etc couldn't be heard. Children who behave well would always be welcome; unfortunately you cannot legislate for feckless, inconsiderate parents who allow their kids to have free rein. People always refer to mediterranean countries as the definitive 'family' model, however my experience of such events has shown parents applying far greater discipline than here so children can join in happily without destroying the event for others.