This "must Buy Now" Peer Pressure....

[SleepyHead]

Good point.

I think the people who are trying to induce me to buy generally give off two types of vibes:

1) "You could get left behind if you don't jump in now". I would hope that this is the one my family are more concerned with - even if they are wrong

2) However, the more telling vibe I get is one of "why isn't he doing the same as us?" " what does he know?" I really get the feeling that me not buying a house makes some people feel distinctly uncomfortable.

I have never been one to follow the crowd. I always stick to my guns. However, I do really feel that alot of people are trying to induce me to make a very bad financial decision that only I will have to live with.

Yeah, I have family members that fall into those categories too. I guess they have our best interests at heart. So that's nice and everything, but god it's frustrating! I've tried to explain the in's and out's of the whole thing, but most become glazed over and vacant looking.

In my case though, I really, genuinely, positively can't afford a house (not with a normal repayment mortgage anyway) So it isn't even a choice for me yet, and won't be until prices drop.

[otters]

OK,

Now I know that I'm a bit of a contrarian, and I've probably brought this on myself.

However, I am getting thoroughly fed up of this "look mate, they aren't going to fall any further" type crap.

One mate, who has just got a job working for "something" that pollutes us all (I won't mention the name on these pages for want of getting hate mail by association) has just told me "they wont be this cheap for years mate".

Has anyone got any tips for me to get through this little period (without resorting to physical violence)?

I moved to live in the UK in 1990. Many of my new found acquaintances used to say the same thing to me, "Boy have you arrived at a good time to pick up a property bargain" I stuck with my gut feeling and bought in 1994 and saved myself £140k.

[Not Long Now]

It does, but I don't think it's "what does he know?" i suspect it's more like "what's wrong with him?".

Kind of like the way people react to someone who is teetotal. What do mean you don't drink? At all? Why??! could be rephrased: You haven't bought a house yet? You don't WANT to?! Why not?!!

It's almost an adult form of playground teasing, and giving in to it age 33 is no better than giving in at age 13. Stick to your convictions - but do always listen to everyone's opinion. You never know when a wise nugget will appear.

Good post,

Ironically enough, I've just had a month off the beer (trying to shift my beer gut after a stag do in early July. The wedding is on Friday, and I plan to break my fast in spectacular style).

That was ruddy tough as well! "Why are you off the beer?" "Go on just have a pint!"

I tried to explain that if I "just had a pint" everytime someone said "just have a pint" the whole excerise would have been useless and I wouldn't have lost the stone I have lost!

(I have been on a diet at the same time - maybe this why I am narky at the mo )

You are correct: listening to advice is always beneficial, regardless of where it comes from. Chosing to follow the advice is my call.

However, I have yet to hear a reasoned, economically literate and coherent argument for me to buy now. My own research contiually points to me making the correct decision for me (!) at this current time.

[Executive Sadman]

One mate, who has just got a job working for "something" that pollutes us all (I won't mention the name on these pages for want of getting hate mail by association) has just told me "they wont be this cheap for years mate".

Has anyone got any tips for me to get through this little period (without resorting to physical violence)?

TBH he sounds like the kind of person to whom anything other than physical violence will go straight over his head.

[Guest The Relaxation Suite]

OK,

Now I know that I'm a bit of a contrarian, and I've probably brought this on myself.

However, I am getting thoroughly fed up of this "look mate, they aren't going to fall any further" type crap.

One mate, who has just got a job working for "something" that pollutes us all (I won't mention the name on these pages for want of getting hate mail by association) has just told me "they wont be this cheap for years mate".

Has anyone got any tips for me to get through this little period (without resorting to physical violence)?

1. Make a list of the people who say this to you.

2. Talk to them about the same subject in January 2010

3. Laugh out loud

[impatient_mug]

Thank you,

However, this whole thing is really getting me down.

I've had, in the past week (I'm not kidding):

1) Mother "I see house prices are booming again (c/o Daily Express ) "You going to buy?"

2) Dad "These green shoots are everywhere. Make sure you buy now, especially while there is no stamp duty!"

3) Work colleague "They won't fall any further. You going to buy soon then? You must have a huge deposit" (FWIW: same girl laughed in Autumn 2007 when I said there would be a house price crash.

4) Mate "Seriously mate, they aren't going to be this cheap for years"

5) Brother. Continual comments over the last 6 months trying to batter me into buying (incidentally, he said the same thing in March last year "they won't fall").

It's all really getting on my tits now to be honest.

Don't mean to be rude, but your friends and family seem very strange. The only time I recall having a conversation about property with family was when I was buying my place. No pressure but my parents were interested to see anything that made a second viewing and my youngest brother was fairly keen as if it was local he would be getting a massive rent reduction by staying in my spare room! (he ended up staying for about a year).

I don't think I've ever had a conversation with friends other than passing comments when it was all over the papers.

[Frank Hovis]

Don't mean to be rude, but your friends and family seem very strange. The only time I recall having a conversation about property with family was when I was buying my place. No pressure but my parents were interested to see anything that made a second viewing and my youngest brother was fairly keen as if it was local he would be getting a massive rent reduction by staying in my spare room! (he ended up staying for about a year).

I don't think I've ever had a conversation with friends other than passing comments when it was all over the papers.

If you say why you think they have a lot further to fall - unemployment, wage deflation, credit bubble bursting, bull trap recovery following classic bubble graphs - then people will:

i) realise that you know a lot more than they do about economics in general and house prices in particular

ii) not go there again because they know you will both win the argument and bore them to tears

Works for me

[Modigliani1]

Someday someone will have to explain to me why people in the UK are so obsessed with owning property. I realize all the advantages of not being a tenant, but why is it that everyone who doesn't own his own place is looked at as a lesser being? Please realize I am not really looking for a financially sound rational explanation, but surely something must have happened in British history to justify this

[Thread Killer]

One mate, who has just got a job working for "something" that pollutes us all (I won't mention the name on these pages for want of getting hate mail by association)

Go on tell us - I'm all curious now.

(promise no hate mail)

[SleepyHead]

Someday someone will have to explain to me why people in the UK are so obsessed with owning property. I realize all the advantages of not being a tenant, but why is it that everyone who doesn't own his own place is looked at as a lesser being? Please realize I am not really looking for a financially sound rational explanation, but surely something must have happened in British history to justify this

Am I right in saying that in the US, if you're a tenant you don't have to pay property taxes?

In the UK you have to pay council tax on your property both as a tenant and a homeowner.

Might be a reason.

Plus pensions in the UK are a complete con. Everyone winds up getting screwed by their company pension scheme going bust etc. So the sheeple think a house is a better option.

[Frank Hovis]

Someday someone will have to explain to me why people in the UK are so obsessed with owning property. I realize all the advantages of not being a tenant, but why is it that everyone who doesn't own his own place is looked at as a lesser being? Please realize I am not really looking for a financially sound rational explanation, but surely something must have happened in British history to justify this

I don't understand why people want to own property at such a young age.

Who the hell wants the responsibility and liability of a house when they're in their 20s?

Rent and move.

[South Lorne]

OK,

Now I know that I'm a bit of a contrarian, and I've probably brought this on myself.

However, I am getting thoroughly fed up of this "look mate, they aren't going to fall any further" type crap.

One mate, who has just got a job working for "something" that pollutes us all (I won't mention the name on these pages for want of getting hate mail by association) has just told me "they wont be this cheap for years mate".

Has anyone got any tips for me to get through this little period (without resorting to physical violence)?

.....see signature ...MO still going down despite attempts to rig otherwise by VI's and Government.....

[impatient_mug]

Someday someone will have to explain to me why people in the UK are so obsessed with owning property. I realize all the advantages of not being a tenant, but why is it that everyone who doesn't own his own place is looked at as a lesser being? Please realize I am not really looking for a financially sound rational explanation, but surely something must have happened in British history to justify this

British landlords are a fickle bunch and very restrictive. There are strict limits on what you can do to the place you're renting. One year with a 6 month get-out for both sides is a fairly common contract, and I know from experience that the owners frequently have other plans for their houses and they're just getting the tenants in whilst it's empty. The restrictions and lack of security push people towards buying.

There's also the pensions thing as another poster pointed out - they're by no means guaranteed - you need to be a very smart private investor or a civil servant to get a good pension these days. Paying a few hundred a month more early on in life knowing that you will be able to live rent free in 15-25 years is tempting if you can't guarantee yourself a retirement income.

[eightiesgirly]

Someday someone will have to explain to me why people in the UK are so obsessed with owning property. I realize all the advantages of not being a tenant, but why is it that everyone who doesn't own his own place is looked at as a lesser being? Please realize I am not really looking for a financially sound rational explanation, but surely something must have happened in British history to justify this

My mum bought a home of her own because renting had been a very negative business, one landlord doubled the rent with two weeks notice, the next visited her frequently with unwanted suggestive behaviour, the next house was, unknown to her under a compulsary purchase order, she found out by accident, in the end she had enough and decided to buy.

Her advice to her kids was 'buy your own house as soon as you can'

[Frank Hovis]

My mum bought a home of her own because renting had been a very negative business, one landlord doubled the rent with two weeks notice, the next visited her frequently with unwanted suggestive behaviour, the next house was, unknown to her under a compulsary purchase order, she found out by accident, in the end she had enough and decided to buy.

Her advice to her kids was 'buy your own house as soon as you can'

Which explains her situation.

I have had many positive years of renting experience. I have never rented through an agency and always meet the landlord in advance (and they get to meet me - lucky them) so it starts off on a personal basis. Though not as personal as your mum has had!

I do this by asking around at work and people I know and by scanning the small ads.

I have never been asked to leave anywhere and usually stay a few years.

I did buy once but it was such a hassle buying in the first place and then selling and moving that I'm not buying again until I expect to be there a good ten years. Which will probably be the case in 3 / 4 years when I expect we will be bumping along the bottom pricewise.

[zebbedee]

My boss who scoffed at me in 07 has since turned into the rabbit in the headlights, he's on >£55k but runs a couple of £k on the credit card. Laid out my belief that the indices are showing rises because it is only 'good' property shifting in a very distressed market at reduced prices and when the summer is over and the cash rich buyers have ran dry the indices will turn south, quickly followed by the pent up supply^* rushing for the exits, only to recieve stunned silence.

*Those who were hoping to get the, as they see it, 'lost' money back

[Modigliani1]

I see your points about security, pension and freedom to do whatever you want with your house. They are all absolutely reasonable.

But they hold true in many other countries, yet I have been in the UK for quite a few years and I keep getting bad looks from people (even friends with a decent amount of financial knowledge) whenever I say I could theoretically buy a property but I don't. It's hard to explain, but at times my brain cannot help but brand their arguments as obsession or even borderline fanatism. It's gotten to a point where I'd rather avoid the subject altogether if I can.

You can have a better idea of what I am saying by paying attention to all the property porn programmes on tv. It's like being a tenant is a crime :|

[Peter Hun]

OK,

Now I know that I'm a bit of a contrarian, and I've probably brought this on myself.

However, I am getting thoroughly fed up of this "look mate, they aren't going to fall any further" type crap.

One mate, who has just got a job working for "something" that pollutes us all (I won't mention the name on these pages for want of getting hate mail by association) has just told me "they wont be this cheap for years mate".

Has anyone got any tips for me to get through this little period (without resorting to physical violence)?

You could try logical reasoning. However, "F*** off you pea brained F***-wit" is quicker and just as effective (i.e. make no difference to someone who would never listen anyway)

[Tonkers]

Encourage them all, unrelentingly, to buy houses. The economy needs these people so as to to recover, needs to suck out real capital. DO YOUR DUTY.

[DementedTuna]

I don't have this problem at all.

Most of my friends are poor, and my family agree that mortgages are horrible stressful things.

[Bootsox]

OK,

Now I know that I'm a bit of a contrarian, and I've probably brought this on myself......snip.

Reminded me a little of my own situation in 1990. I am also a contrarian and my decisions tend to be my own as I do not listen much to other people.

In 1990 the property market was in the early throes of a property crash for much of the reasons it is now: a period of prior ramping, easy credit, excessive borrowing multiples. We also had high interest rates in lieu of a credit crunch.

Having easily sold a property in Scotland March 1990 (at the time, Scots were behind the curve property crash wise) I was living back with my old man. After a few months, I was starting to panic and think that I must take advantage of the crash to get back on the property ladder (before prices start to shoot up again!). So in October 1990, I bought a place for £70k. Eventually sold this property in 1998 for £83k. A modest profit over 8 years but with inflation no doubt a modest loss.

I am renting myself now, having sold up in Aug 2004 (called the market too soon but there were other personal reasons to sell up).

So my experience is that once a market starts to crash, it stays crashed for a good while afterwards. You would have to be superman to call the bottom of any market but, in the case of property, I think we have another 2/3 years to go yet and even then it will be a slow rise back to 2007 levels.

[LuckyOne]

1. Make a list of the people who say this to you.

2. Talk to them about the same subject in January 2010

3. Laugh out loud

Repeat quarterly for at least three more years for good measure.

[bomberbrown]

If that does not comfort you look at these charts from Japan.

I'm going to print that 2nd graph of credit card sized, laminate it, and keep it in my wallet for when this conversation comes up again in the pub.

[Sybil13]

Mmm what is the better position to be in for both you and your family, your sensible attitude coupled with patience or borrowing a £100000 from Mum & Dad on a HUGELY overvalued property ? Can you imagine looking back after 50% falls ......?

Bank of Mum & Dad

David Smith says parents have been the main force behind this year's pick-up in sales.

"It's quite amazing, the number of buyers we get coming in with mum and dad in tow," he says.

"The majority of the people we are registering on our books are coming with the big deposits from their parents."

Many have been putting down large sums of money to finance the 20% or 25% deposits their children often need to buy flats or houses.

"One of the flats I sold at the weekend, the buyer brought his mum and dad down because they are putting down the deposit of over £100,000," says David.

"It is without question family funds, you can't save that sort of money in just one or two years."

Edited August 11, 2009 by Sybil13

[bomberbrown]

Someday someone will have to explain to me why people in the UK are so obsessed with owning property. I realize all the advantages of not being a tenant, but why is it that everyone who doesn't own his own place is looked at as a lesser being? Please realize I am not really looking for a financially sound rational explanation, but surely something must have happened in British history to justify this

I've just had a Eureka moment after reading this.

Basically, this is the first big bull run in property (1997 to 2007) since the introduction of the AST (1988). IMHO, this has made a lot of the rental properties volatile regarding long, stable tenancies as landords have been selling/flipping for capital gains. This, naturally, has been a disruptive decade for a lot of 20 and 30 somethings, and all they have ever experienced in the rental market, hence the aversion to renting for the supposed stability or buying.