Invasion Of The Reality Snatchers

[GordonBrownSpentMyFuture]

I gave up on BBC and ITN earlier in the year when it was clear the gov had slipped them a piece of paper telling them to only report "good news" as opposed to the facts.

The number of biased interviews with EAs and VIs has also amazed me. The government is doing a very good job of engineering an artificial recovery, the media is doing a very good job reporting it, and some British people are doing a very good job at lapping it up because they want it to be true.

I cannot begin to understand why people are not questioning these bullish reports. I can only conclude that the vast majority of people are completely incapable of understanding the principles of cause and effect and the seemingly contradictory environment in which we currently live.

My view hasn't changed one bit. Like many here, I think the UK is fkd. Brown and Co have done an admirable job of trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes and postponing the inevitable until after the next general election but I have faith that the silent majority of the UK population can see this "recovery" for what it is.

The extremely vocal VIs and spin doctors may be giving the impression that we're now out of the woods but I don't buy it.

And the more someone tries to sell me something, the more inclined I am to walk away and believe the opposite to be true.

[self]

[Patfig]

I gave up on BBC and ITN earlier in the year when it was clear the gov had slipped them a piece of paper telling them to only report "good news" as opposed to the facts.

The number of biased interviews with EAs and VIs has also amazed me. The government is doing a very good job of engineering an artificial recovery, the media is doing a very good job reporting it, and some British people are doing a very good job at lapping it up because they want it to be true.

I cannot begin to understand why people are not questioning these bullish reports. I can only conclude that the vast majority of people are completely incapable of understanding the principles of cause and effect and the seemingly contradictory environment in which we currently live.

My view hasn't changed one bit. Like many here, I think the UK is fkd. Brown and Co have done an admirable job of trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes and postponing the inevitable until after the next general election but I have faith that the silent majority of the UK population can see this "recovery" for what it is.

The extremely vocal VIs and spin doctors may be giving the impression that we're now out of the woods but I don't buy it.

And the more someone tries to sell me something, the more inclined I am to walk away and believe the opposite to be true.

This artificial recovery will be rammed down your throat ad infinitum ready for the GE. Expect blatant lies and massive propaganda all year

[PotNoodle]

When everyone in the UK owns 20 flats, we will all be rich, rich, rich......

And therein, as the Bard says, lies the rub.

For if we all had just one house and one BTL, we would all go bankrupt.

If we all borrowed more than could possibly be paid back, the country would be bankrupt.

So, whisper it quietly, and continue this decade with care.

*Only a few of us can be rich - the rest have to struggle*

[Scunnered]

So they have gone their separate ways, but the son of the other family still lives there, and the woman I spoke with is now getting into the legal loop with two sets of solicitors instructed to fight over the bones of the whole sorry affair.

But- they have put the house on the market- remember, one wants to sell, the other keep, so with two lots of EAs and two lots of valuations, with an waaayy overpriced property, everything is going nowhere fast.

... and they say that renting is dead money.

[roman holiday]

I cannot begin to understand why people are not questioning these bullish reports. I can only conclude that the vast majority of people are completely incapable of understanding the principles of cause and effect and the seemingly contradictory environment in which we currently live.

Animal spirits do a lot more to drive perceptions than "rationality".

Edited June 11, 2009 by roman holiday

[General Melchett]

And therein, as the Bard says, lies the rub.

For if we all had just one house and one BTL, we would all go bankrupt.

If we all borrowed more than could possibly be paid back, the country would be bankrupt.

So, whisper it quietly, and continue this decade with care.

*Only a few of us can be rich - the rest have to struggle*

Treason!!!!! Madness!!!!

Report to your nearest property investing seminar for re-education.

[CHF]

Keep the faith guys.

Ive just categorically stated to 2 women in my office that its all PR and lies and this is no way over.

Personally Im happy as i think I will look even cleverer when it finally dawns on people!

[tegan]

I think we're currently going through the most dangerous portion of the crash. We are collectively refusing to admit reality, we are collectively refusing to face up to the terrible problems we face.

We're putting our fingers in our ears and going 'lalalala', and the longer we do that for the worse the next stage of the crash will be.

[self]

I think we're currently going through the most dangerous portion of the crash. We are collectively refusing to admit reality, we are collectively refusing to face up to the terrible problems we face.

We're putting our fingers in our ears and going 'lalalala', and the longer we do that for the worse the next stage of the crash will be.

+1.

[abharrisson]

Just browsing through a few threads on here, and having listened to the nonsensical BBC Fivelive Nicky Campbell phone-in this morning, I am at a loss to describe, let alone understand, what is going on.

I am begining to feel like that chap who realises he is the last Human Being in a town where aliens have taken over all the bodies of everyone else and that, perhaps, time is running out. Am I going to wake up tomorrow morning to see a clone of myself putting my clothes on and then coming on here posting about how everything is hunky dory in the economy?

We have just had the biggest financial crisis since 1929 - worse that the 90s, worse than the 80s, worse than the 70s - and yet within just 6 months everything is apparently sorted.

What rubbish!

The entire global banking system melted down, they needed billions and billions of Govt money just to stay afloat and now we are supposed to believe that the banks have basically paid back all the money! Where did they get the money from to pay back what they borrowed? Did they find an old biscuit tin under the stairs with the odd trillion bucks inside!?

Then there are houses - has there ever been a more concentrated spin machine set in motion to convince us all that house prices are not only stabilising but even rising! Who is buying? Where are they getting the money from?

This is just madness! It is FUD. It is PR. It is spin. It is bullsh*t!

I was reading an article by Bill Bonner on the Dailyreckoning the other day where he said that the prudent were now, in my words, being shafted in order to pay for the debt of the feckless. I think he has a point.

Just create another even bigger debt bubble and, no doubt, today's politicians will know that it will become someone else's problem in 5, 10 or 20 years time!

I'd agree with you but theres a misunderstanding that the meltdown has been going on for only 6 months... in fact the current financial crisis has been going on for over 18 months now... I don't say this to make any pretence that its all fixed, but I think the main issues have a resolution now even if they are not yet fully fixed, its more on the road to stabilisation than heading for meltdown would be my own view of it.

[200p]

Jim Rogers says no recovereh

9 June 09

[bimyo]

This artificial recovery will be rammed down your throat ad infinitum ready for the GE. Expect blatant lies and massive propaganda all year

Yep.

The writing was on the wall when Brown survived a leadership challenge then Brownites said that Labour still had a chance depending on the economy.

It's going to be a spinstorm way beyond anything in 2001-2007.

Their best chance is in having sunk into the public consciousness the idea that higher house prices mean recovery. Opponents can't argue about HPI for fear of being 'doom-mongers'.

Now they will throw any amount of debt at the problem and propagate any shameless lie to stay in power. In our political system, that's their job.

[Gideon Gono]

Madness, isn't it? If prices stay cheaper to rent, I'll continue to do so though, especially with rates on the rise now. While the housing market remains bonkers, I shall take no part in it.

And whats your landlord going to do to your rent once his costs start rising? Renting is a mugs game.

[The Spaniard]

Opponents can't argue about HPI for fear of being 'doom-mongers'.

When will we first hear the term "recovery denier"?

[SMAC67]

Reduce it, hello, calling planet earth, is there any intelligent life on this planet?

[roman holiday]

And whats your landlord going to do to your rent once his costs start rising? Renting is a mugs game.

Whether you are a tenant or a landlord, DEBT is a mug's game.

[Guest_FaFa!_*]

And whats your landlord going to do to your rent once his costs start rising? Renting is a mugs game.

1. He will try and stick the rent up.

2. As there is a huge supply of rental property on the market I will move

3. He will then have a void. He will find it difficult to find another tenant due to the oversupply of property.

4. He will think sod this and stick his house on the market.

5. Loads of other unintentional LLs will do the same

6. House prices will commence their next leg down

7. People will realise the game is up

8. I will be able to buy a property for less than the rental and stop renting.

You are right, renting is a mug's game. Sadly it is not the tenants who are the mugs

Edited for clarity, so that even a bull should be able to follow

Edited June 11, 2009 by shylock

[Peter Hun]

Just browsing through a few threads on here, and having listened to the nonsensical BBC Fivelive Nicky Campbell phone-in this morning, I am at a loss to describe, let alone understand, what is going on.

I am begining to feel like that chap who realises he is the last Human Being in a town where aliens have taken over all the bodies of everyone else and that, perhaps, time is running out. Am I going to wake up tomorrow morning to see a clone of myself putting my clothes on and then coming on here posting about how everything is hunky dory in the economy?

We have just had the biggest financial crisis since 1929 - worse that the 90s, worse than the 80s, worse than the 70s - and yet within just 6 months everything is apparently sorted.

What rubbish!

The entire global banking system melted down, they needed billions and billions of Govt money just to stay afloat and now we are supposed to believe that the banks have basically paid back all the money! Where did they get the money from to pay back what they borrowed? Did they find an old biscuit tin under the stairs with the odd trillion bucks inside!?

People like to delude themselves, and remember the Government depends on a 'recovery' in order to get re-elected. They will poor propaganda through the media (who have their own interests to protect as well) all the way to election day.

The vast majority are VI with shares, pensions and mortgages so they will gladly agree that everything is wonderful. However.. it won't get people spending for long, once the weather gets colder things will go down again. The same thing will happen every year. Spring Bounce.

[Gideon Gono]

I think we're currently going through the most dangerous portion of the crash. We are collectively refusing to admit reality, we are collectively refusing to face up to the terrible problems we face.

We're putting our fingers in our ears and going 'lalalala', and the longer we do that for the worse the next stage of the crash will be.

I disagree - The economy is all about confidence and sentiment. If these 2 things are fine people are out spending again (hopefully within their means) so we get to a level of sustainable growth.

If we are all doom gloom and fear we don't spend. Then the unemployment cycle gets worse.

[pete.hpc]

And whats your landlord going to do to your rent once his costs start rising? Renting is a mugs game.

the same thing he did this year : ****** all !

markets decide rents, not landlords

[roman holiday]

I disagree - The economy is all about confidence and sentiment. If these 2 things are fine people are out spending again (hopefully within their means) so we get to a level of sustainable growth.

If we are all doom gloom and fear we don't spend. Then the unemployment cycle gets worse.

This is only half the picture. Why are there busts if all that is needed is confidence? The problem is too much confidence where that confidence has disconnected from economic fundamentals or reality. Think of Daedalus' statues, so lifelike that unless tied down they flew away.

Edited June 11, 2009 by roman holiday

[Gideon Gono]

1. He will try and stick the rent up.

2. As there is a huge supply of rental property on the market I will move

3. He will then have a void. He will find it difficult to find another tenant due to the oversupply of property.

4. He will think sod this and stick his house on the market.

5. Loads of other unintentional LLs will do the same

6. House prices will commence their next leg down

7. People will realise the game is up

8. I will be able to buy a property for less than the rental and stop renting.

You are right, renting is a mug's game. Sadly it is not the tenants who are the mugs

Edited for clarity, so that even a bull should be able to follow

1) Yes -

2) Don't you think other landlords will be doing the same as their costs have gone up too?

3) See point 2, you're all in the same boat

4) Yes, the weak will get flushed out - most of its done already. If you cant pay a mortgage on these interest rates you never will

5) See point 4 -

6) They have already dropped 25-30%. If that's not one hell of a discount I don't know what is.

7) or stick their finger in their ears and deny what's going on around them

8) If you cant buy a house after a 25-30% correction I suggest you get a new career.

[Gideon Gono]

This is only half the picture. Why are there busts if all that is needed is confidence? The problem is too much confidence where that confidence has disconnected from economic fundamentals or reality. Think of Daedalus' statues, so lifelike that unless tied down they flew away.

There is a difference between confidence and recklessness. Would I lend money to someone who had a good career and was working their way through life had a good credit record and was stable? Yes, Id be confident with that investment.

Now - would I lend 500k to someone without a job, a NINJA if you know the expression on the premise his asset will always rise in value no matter what? No - that would be reckless wouldn't it.

[SMAC67]

I disagree - The economy is all about confidence and sentiment. If these 2 things are fine people are out spending again (hopefully within their means) so we get to a level of sustainable growth.

If we are all doom gloom and fear we don't spend. Then the unemployment cycle gets worse.

Utter sh*t, this is one of the main reasons people have no idea what is going on. Wishful thinking doesn't run an economy, never has, never will.