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The Masked Tulip

Invasion Of The Reality Snatchers

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Just browsing through a few threads on here, and having listened to the nonsensical BBC Fivelive Nicky Campbell phone-in this morning, I am at a loss to describe, let alone understand, what is going on.

I am begining to feel like that chap who realises he is the last Human Being in a town where aliens have taken over all the bodies of everyone else and that, perhaps, time is running out. Am I going to wake up tomorrow morning to see a clone of myself putting my clothes on and then coming on here posting about how everything is hunky dory in the economy?

We have just had the biggest financial crisis since 1929 - worse that the 90s, worse than the 80s, worse than the 70s - and yet within just 6 months everything is apparently sorted.

What rubbish!

The entire global banking system melted down, they needed billions and billions of Govt money just to stay afloat and now we are supposed to believe that the banks have basically paid back all the money! Where did they get the money from to pay back what they borrowed? Did they find an old biscuit tin under the stairs with the odd trillion bucks inside!?

Then there are houses - has there ever been a more concentrated spin machine set in motion to convince us all that house prices are not only stabilising but even rising! Who is buying? Where are they getting the money from?

This is just madness! It is FUD. It is PR. It is spin. It is bullsh*t!

I was reading an article by Bill Bonner on the Dailyreckoning the other day where he said that the prudent were now, in my words, being shafted in order to pay for the debt of the feckless. I think he has a point.

Just create another even bigger debt bubble and, no doubt, today's politicians will know that it will become someone else's problem in 5, 10 or 20 years time!

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I am begining to feel like that chap who realises he is the last Human Being in a town where aliens have taken over all the bodies of everyone else and that, perhaps, time is running out. Am I going to wake up tomorrow morning to see a clone of myself putting my clothes on and then coming on here posting about how everything is hunky dory in the economy?

Don't show any negative emotions, or they will be able to tell. Remember to use phrases like "green shoots", "recovery", "Gordon Brown is doing a great job on the economy, it would be worse if he wasn't in power", "it started in America" and "ancedotal evidence proves.....". I believe I am the last person in my office to be holding on. There was another guy who said things like "mortgages rates maybe down now but wait until they go up", "you may have low mortgage payments now, but we will all have to pay for this debt in the end" and "this is a long time downturn, which will affect us for years to come". He has "gone on holiday". There is an empty chair where he used to sit. I am worried he will come back and announce he is buying a house at 2007 prices as well as declaring that now is the time to go back into the stock market. I keep a low profile, occasionally mumbling "recovery" and "green shoots" to myself if I think they suspect.

Take care and good luck

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I've just put in an offer on a property and considering dabbling in BTL. Please note we know who the OP's are and you will be assimilated!

Edited by rover2000

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Don't show any negative emotions, or they will be able to tell. Remember to use phrases like "green shoots", "recovery", "Gordon Brown is doing a great job on the economy, it would be worse if he wasn't in power", "it started in America" and "ancedotal evidence proves.....". I believe I am the last person in my office to be holding on. There was another guy who said things like "mortgages rates maybe down now but wait until they go up", "you may have low mortgage payments now, but we will all have to pay for this debt in the end" and "this is a long time downturn, which will affect us for years to come". He has "gone on holiday". There is an empty chair where he used to sit. I am worried he will come back and announce he is buying a house at 2007 prices as well as declaring that now is the time to go back into the stock market. I keep a low profile, occasionally mumbling "recovery" and "green shoots" to myself if I think they suspect.

Take care and good luck

I am afraid to sleep :blink:

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Madness, isn't it? If prices stay cheaper to rent, I'll continue to do so though, especially with rates on the rise now. While the housing market remains bonkers, I shall take no part in it.

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Just create another even bigger debt bubble and, no doubt, today's politicians will know that it will become someone else's problem in 5, 10 or 20 years time!

This is the plan.

It's always the plan.

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image005.jpg

I wonder what is the worst memory about that film for DS?

1. That silly ridiculous scene, as per above image, at the end

2. That perm

I wonder if he looks back on that film with regret or does he have happy memories of the pay check?

Not a patch on the 1950's B&W version IMPO.

Anyhow, judging by other threads on here today, I see other HPCers are feeling the same as I do. I was in the pub with some mates last night, all prudent saver types, and they were all fed up with what is going on. Several commented that they should have been feckless and spent, spent, spent like all the rest.

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It's ok Masked Tulip. It doesn't hurt. We just want a peaceful world, a world where house prices only ever go up, where we will all be millionaires. I understand that now. There's no need to be afraid. Just have this injection. You will wake up and take your first steps towards your BTL empire, buying two bed flats to rent to go getting young professionals.

When everyone in the UK owns 20 flats, we will all be rich, rich, rich......

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It's ok Masked Tulip. It doesn't hurt. We just want a peaceful world, a world where house prices only ever go up, where we will all be millionaires. I understand that now. There's no need to be afraid. Just have this injection. You will wake up and take your first steps towards your BTL empire, buying two bed flats to rent to go getting young professionals.

When everyone in the UK owns 20 flats, we will all be rich, rich, rich......

You're freaking me out now baby! :blink:

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Yes MT, it is all rather disconcerting, and some cognitive dissonance is a natural reaction.

The more I look into what we are expected and encouraged to believe by the MSM, the more I understand that in the large we live in a carefully controlled virtual reality. Acceptable cultural belief systems and the scope of debate allowed are well curtailed.

Some of the officially promoted narratives just do not stand up to expert scrutiny, the prime example being the heavily propagandised conspiracy theory of 9/11.

It seems that the PTB rely heavily on the general mental laziness of the masses, but little by little maybe this is now changing.

Interesting times ahead?

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Madness, isn't it? If prices stay cheaper to rent, I'll continue to do so though, especially with rates on the rise now. While the housing market remains bonkers, I shall take no part in it.

Yes, complete madness but what is worrying is how so many wish to believe it - from Joe Public to Meeja luvvies. Maybe there is so much debt that people need to believe it.

There is little comparission with the US, Eire and other parts of Europe on the Meeja these days. How on earth can we be coming out of this recession when so many other countries are fecked. Heck, even frugal Sweden had to get an IMF loan in the past week.

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Guest KingCharles1st

Well I will admit to feeling the same.

A few days ago, I was in conversation wit hte wife of an accountant, and family friend, regarding a cottage they have an interest in.

Basically, their daughter got with a guy for the long term, and it turned out to be the short term. They bought around 2 years ago(with a lot of deposit assistance from both sets of parents) a terraced cottage, that so far has had an awful lot of renovation done to it.

So they have gone their separate ways, but the son of the other family still lives there, and the woman I spoke with is now getting into the legal loop with two sets of solicitors instructed to fight over the bones of the whole sorry affair.

But- they have put the house on the market- remember, one wants to sell, the other keep, so with two lots of EAs and two lots of valuations, with an waaayy overpriced property, everything is going nowhere fast.

Me- "Just sell it, and be done wit hit."

Mother- "No- we are angling to keep it going now because property has turned the corner and going up!"

Me- "You cant be serious.... :blink: "

Her- "Its all over the papers and the news- etc etc "

I could see no further point in trying to make her understand

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Just create another even bigger debt bubble and, no doubt, today's politicians will know that it will become someone else's problem in 5, 10 or 20 years time!

Your lowest date estimate is over by a minimum of four years and a month.

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There was a statement made by somebody in government a few months ago that the media should only push "positive" news. I think we are seeing the effects of that directive everywhere now. The only place you will find real factual reporting is on the independent media and internet. It's quite scary and reminds me of the days of soviet propaganda. Basically, the entire mainstream media is singing to the same "upturn" song sheet.

It's like there never was a recession. He who controls the past controls the future...

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The answer is simple, the majority of people wandering around this part of the planet are "kidults", they look like adults but their brain simply hasn't matured beyond that of a young adult, or older child. In addition they have very little education or interest in finance and accept everything they are spoonfed by the media, who they view as the adults.

If you have teenagers or children I am sure you will recognise the thought patterns and wishful thinking, very similar to our so called adults.

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Well I will admit to feeling the same.

A few days ago, I was in conversation wit hte wife of an accountant, and family friend, regarding a cottage they have an interest in.

Basically, their daughter got with a guy for the long term, and it turned out to be the short term. They bought around 2 years ago(with a lot of deposit assistance from both sets of parents) a terraced cottage, that so far has had an awful lot of renovation done to it.

So they have gone their separate ways, but the son of the other family still lives there, and the woman I spoke with is now getting into the legal loop with two sets of solicitors instructed to fight over the bones of the whole sorry affair.

But- they have put the house on the market- remember, one wants to sell, the other keep, so with two lots of EAs and two lots of valuations, with an waaayy overpriced property, everything is going nowhere fast.

Me- "Just sell it, and be done wit hit."

Mother- "No- we are angling to keep it going now because property has turned the corner and going up!"

Me- "You cant be serious.... :blink: "

Her- "Its all over the papers and the news- etc etc "

I could see no further point in trying to make her understand

Thanks for sharing that KC - I now feel the urge to go blast my brains out.

This is the problem now though isn't - every numpty is going to believe that HPs are on the rise. They want to believe it.

I think it will take a huge stock market correction now to make people realise how dire things are. Otherwise, all this Meeja hype of HPs rising, banks having repaid their billions of Govt loans, etc, will mean that we will be in a HP check-mate for years to come.

I was aiming to buy this Autumn/Winter but now, in my part of the World, the EAs are acting like it is 2006/07 again. Madness!

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You're freaking me out now baby! :blink:

There's nothing to worry about. I have just put my life savings into rental property. The nice young man with the gelled hair and powerful aftershave advised me to put it all in flats in Leeds, but I have decided to diversify and spread the risk by purchasing in the UK, Latvia and Dubai. A friend of mine who works in a media consultancy said that's where the smart money is.

Interest rates have never been lower, interest rates have never been lower, interest rates have never been lower.....

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Just browsing through a few threads on here, and having listened to the nonsensical BBC Fivelive Nicky Campbell phone-in this morning, I am at a loss to describe, let alone understand, what is going on.

I found the same thing and it is really puzzling. My feeling is that people with jobs just got bored of recession talk. Every decent house is now sold/SSTC/under-offer near me, only around 10-15% below 2007 levels.

All that has really changed since the bubble burst is that the govt has bailed out the banks at great taxpayer expense. Whilst foreigners keep buying govt debt, interest rates will stay low and house prices wont drop much more in nominal terms.

There are only two ways for nominal house prices to drop further now, unemployment (likely) and failure to sell govt debt.

I wonder if govt debt is still being sold on the basis that the next govt will be Tory and they will slash spending. That means the bears will get their drops but have a long wait for the next leg down. This dead cat bounce could hold the market steady for a year.

VMR.

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Guest KingCharles1st
Thanks for sharing that KC - I now feel the urge to go blast my brains out.

This is the problem now though isn't - every numpty is going to believe that HPs are on the rise. They want to believe it.

I think it will take a huge stock market correction now to make people realise how dire things are. Otherwise, all this Meeja hype of HPs rising, banks having repaid their billions of Govt loans, etc, will mean that we will be in a HP check-mate for years to come.

I was aiming to buy this Autumn/Winter but now, in my part of the World, the EAs are acting like it is 2006/07 again. Madness!

If one dissects the information- we find the following..

There USUALLY IS a Spring bounce.

A Spring bounce will "boost" the market going into the summer quarter

Transactions started in the summer quarter will complete in the Autumn quarter

Nothing will happen in the Winter quarter

Cyclical armageddon will revisit the financial and household sectors next Jan-April

Therefore- maybe is IS true that labour will go to the vote in the Autumn?

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If you go back a few years in this forum most people didn't expect more than a 25% drop from peak. Then most claimed they'd jump in and bag a bargain.

25% (and more) has been acheived - why are so few now diving in?

Is it greed, fear, intelligence, or something else?

Do we really want yet more economic armaggedon?

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Read about the French Assignat

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/39316/assignat

In December 1789, to pay its immediate debts, the National Assembly issued the assignat as a bond bearing 5 percent interest, with the recently nationalized church lands as security. By September 1790 the Assembly made the assignat into a paper currency, and the amount in circulation was increased from 400,000,000 livres to 1,200,000,000. The initial effect of the paper currency was beneficial, stimulating economic growth and eliminating a money shortage. But a deep public distrust of paper money and the fear that the currency would be worthless if the uncertain Revolutionary regime collapsed soon caused the assignat to depreciate.

Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assignat

Edited by Lord Sandwich

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Superb thread title. The last few years during the boom certainly felt unreal and I certainly thought that eventually the people would see that the Emperor was naked. However, it seems people think he's only taken his jumper off and will at some point put it back on. What seems cleear to me is that I overestimated the ability of the majority of people to face the truth without it hitting them in the face first. This doesn't seem to be happening as even though unemployment is going up, house prices are going down, people want to believe that it is merely temporary. In a way, this "resilience" (or denial!) is to be admired. However, it also means that the day of reckoning gets put off and that the final blow will be heavier since we're not dealing with the causes of it. Death by a thousand cuts unfortunately.

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Thanks for sharing that KC - I now feel the urge to go blast my brains out.

This is the problem now though isn't - every numpty is going to believe that HPs are on the rise. They want to believe it.

I think it will take a huge stock market correction now to make people realise how dire things are. Otherwise, all this Meeja hype of HPs rising, banks having repaid their billions of Govt loans, etc, will mean that we will be in a HP check-mate for years to come.

I was aiming to buy this Autumn/Winter but now, in my part of the World, the EAs are acting like it is 2006/07 again. Madness!

Get some proportion chap! :)

Take a look at the crash of '29 and the Japanese crash of the 80s..... everyone living in that period mistook the bounce/s that followed with recovery.... nothing different this time. It will take maybe another crash or two, and a bit more deleveraging before the property dream is publicly acknowledged to be a nightmare.... though I would imagine it is already a private nightmare for many.

Edited by roman holiday

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If you go back a few years in this forum most people didn't expect more than a 25% drop from peak. Then most claimed they'd jump in and bag a bargain.

25% (and more) has been acheived - why are so few now diving in?

Is it greed, fear, intelligence, or something else?

Do we really want yet more economic armaggedon?

First of all, in the place where I live, Brighton, prices have no way gone down 25%, 10-15% if you're lucky...

And, most importantly, how on earth do you think that a tiny-weeny 25% (where happening) can cancel out or make up for more than 10 years of stupidity & greed that let to a monstruous 200% HPI?

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