threesixty Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 You know. I am the first one to criticise Labour when they have trolled the country which has been a lot over the past 10 years, however effing idiots who blame a local goverment for a world wide phenomena - I mean, a butterfly flaps its wings in westminster and yes there is a chance that it may cause a hurricane in North America, but lets face it, the chance is VERY VERY LOW. I guess GB was also responsible for the hanging chads too, and the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth(? that is after the BNP types have stopped blaming the Jews, or better still you could have a morph of scotland and israil to creat scotrail) I would also say that a pantomine of hysteria and fake mysery on behalf of goverment ministers might be something that would suit your small pond concerns but it would not help protect people in a global financial crash. This is a bit bigger than a competition to judge the appropriateness of the PM smiling occassionally when you would rather he looked grim and unelectable.EDIT: Although I will admit it is a little irritating to see these polititicians from all walks looking so smug when they are so genuinely pointless in all but the crisis management - they are a bit like medical doctors. The market can sort itself out from 7500 on the Dow and 3600 on the FTSE100. I'm a bit worried that Zanu Labour and Gordon Brown are spinning their way out of responsibility for this mess. People are actually buying the whole line that its a global problem and nothing to do with the present government of the last 12 yrs. The press are complicit in this as well and it's scaring me senseless that Labour could get in again. I think I'll leave the country because I cannot handle the stupidity of a public that cant add 2 and 2 together. The facts are.. We had billions in the bank as a country before labour took over. Our economy was growing quite well. We now have a huge deficit, unheard of, even in war time. We have not saved any money in case we have any problems. (i.e. like now!). And on top of that he has been saying that interest rates are not set by the government yet he and the USA have essentially forced the BOE to keep interest rates low after 9/11 which has caused the biggest bubble known to mankind. Now that the world is waking up to the shocking fact that money is introduced through debt, it's all making sense. GORDONS POLICY HAS BEEN TO GET EVERYONE AND ANYTHING IN TO DEBT TO GROW HIS ECONOMY AND KEEP HIM ELECTED I repeat ... GORDONS POLICY HAS BEEN TO GET EVERYONE AND ANYTHING IN TO DEBT TO GROW HIS ECONOMY AND KEEP HIM ELECTED Thats why your children will have 30k worth of debt by the time their 21. Thats why there has been no point in saving because you lose money through inflation. Better to spend and borrow and spend etc .. etc.. Thats why having a slightly dodgy credit rating can destroy your life because everything is so inflated due to this borrowing bubble that no one can afford to live a decent lifestyle without credit! Thats why businesses have been encouraged to have NO MONEY IN THE BANK and BORROW the money to pay salaries. Businesses that are cash rich have been frowned upon by markets and were liable to takeovers because "wise men" say that they money should be "invested" or given to shareholders, and the company should borrow short term money to keep going. EVERYTHING IS DESIGNED FOR YOU TO BORROW MONEY SO THAT THE BANKS MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY OFF YOU. It's why the disparity between the rich and poor has been GROWING rather than shrinking over the last 15yrs. It's why a wife with 3 kids still HAS TO WORK even though the husband has a well paid professional job that he may have studied his **** off for. There is no option anymore. It is an anglo american problem that has spread to the rest of the world rather than a worldwide problem that has spread to the Uk/US. WE CREATED THIS! Has it not escaped the attention of people here that London was/is the financial centre of the world where all these funny financial products are made? The FSA is down the road from all the financial institutions and yet could not see what was directly under its nose? Yet a bunch of people on a website (this one) seemed to know more than the government and FSA put together and we dont even get paid to know! This country is suffering from a lack of RESPONSIBLITY for its actions. From top to bottom. Thats why school kids kill each other and claim society made them do it, and governments ****** up in spectaculat fashion and yet claim that the "world" made them do it. ACCEPT SOME ******ING RESPONSIBILITY and resign! THIS WHOLE SITUATION IS BY DESIGN. GORDON IS COMPLICIT IN THIS DESIGN. He is either stupid, naive or evil. It is that simple. (Sorry for the rant, havent had any breakfast yet...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver panda Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 If a bank holiday is announced this week it could really mess up mid-month payrolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 year mortgage 8itch Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 How does it work if the market is closed? Do you get the Pools panel in ? If a bank holiday is announced this week it could really mess up mid-month payrolls. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzzzzzz Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 (Sorry for the rant, ) Quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeTrader Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Can anyone help the forums readers understand what the impact of falling bank equity prices actually means for the banks themselves?Surely they have already raised the cah they need through equity sales - Why is it important to then if their stock is 100 or 10? Ignoring bonuses of course... Joey, Just to add to the comment from tbatst2000... You're correct that in principle a bank's balance sheet equity is not affected by movements in its traded stock market price, but one of the biggest concerns of a collapsing share price is damage to the bank's credit rating. Although credit rating agencies (e.g. Standard & Poors) won't automatically downgrade a company on share price movement alone, a collapsing share price will set alarm bells ringing and ratings analysts will take a very close look to try and discern the underlying reasons for the fall. Since the stock price theoretically reflects all information known about a particular company, the assumption will be that the market is giving a warning about that company's condition and prospects. Even if the share price is being driven down by short sellers, the ratings agencies will take the view that short sellers don't attack strong companies (good luck to anyone trying to drive down Berkshire Hathaway's stock price). If a company is in trouble, a lower stock price can make it very difficult for a company to shore up its balance sheet with new capital, and this is particularly relevant with banking and securities institutions where capital adequacy rules are in play. A company with issued share capital of 1 billion shares and a stock price of £20 may be able to raise £2 billion in new capital fairly easily without excessively diluting existing shareholders' holdings. But if its stock price is £2 then raising that £2 billion could mean giving up control of the company. Hence this is something else the ratings agencies consider. If a bank's credit rating is downgraded then its debt becomes more expensive to finance, it becomes harder for it to access funds in the wholesale markets, and depositors may start moving their funds elsewhere because of risk perception. It then becomes a sort of spiralling downward loop as reduced access to deposits/loans makes the bank even weaker, drives the stock price lower, and inevitably risks a further ratings downgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidg Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 During 1929 the Dow was closed for several days on a number of occassions. but this was largely because the volume of transactions overwhelmed the manual processing system. Some days the ticker announcing key stock prices was hours behind the market. It didn't make a difference closing the market to the end result which was a 90% devaluation in stock prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirage Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 (edited) You know. I am the first one to criticise Labour when they have trolled the country which has been a lot over the past 10 years, however effing idiots who blame a local goverment for a world wide phenomena - I mean, a butterfly flaps its wings in westminster and yes there is a chance that it may cause a hurricane in North America, but lets face it, the chance is VERY VERY LOW. Naw, there is no way that local government gets off the hook any more than the local council should after investing all their funds in the South Sea bubble. Gordon was right in the middle of all this bubble activity, leading the way. He has also ensured that we are world leaders in debt and over valued housing. Sure, the tories would probably have done the same. Sure, there would still be a problem even with ideal UK leadership, but much less of one for the UK EDIT:Although I will admit it is a little irritating to see these polititicians from all walks looking so smug when they are so genuinely pointless in all but the crisis management - they are a bit like medical doctors. Bad analogy. Medical doctors tell you to stop smoking, be less fat and do more exercise. It's not their fault if they are then left with crisis management when you ignore all this. Politicians have told us to get into debt and consume, the consumption showing up as "growth" which then allows more spending from the government. It is their fault that we are now in a massive debt problem. (of course, it is really our fault since they have to appeal to us, the electorate) Edited October 12, 2008 by mirage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quagmire Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 (Sorry for the rant, havent had any breakfast yet...) I came to similar conclusions. I don't think Gordon in any way planned what has happened with respect to debt and forcing mothers into work. I think it is simply the "market" reacting to an increased tax burden and increases in the cost of living due to slack lending and currency devaluation. He and his party have turned the UK into a nasty, expensive, violent and increasingly oppressive little hell-hole - and that's during the "good times". Every day I am thankful to be out of there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowestoftBoy Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 LONDON, Oct 12 (Reuters) - Major British banks are likely to announce their plans to recapitalise early on Monday, a person familiar with the matter said, a move which could see the government take multi-billion pound stakes in several lenders. No one from the BBC's business dept, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 OK who predicted they would close the capital markets on here? It gets more like the old Soviet Union every day. Why do Labour Govts always end with economic collapse and nationalisation?Only thing I can say is that if the G7 also close all their markets we really are in a serious situation. Far more serious than anyone in Govt was prepared to admit last week. So if the G7 do this it's all Labours fault? Aren't the US run the ultra right Republican party? However if the markets are shut we will definitely be in a serious situation, this makes the cuban missile crisis look like a friendly picnic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interestrateripoff Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 During 1929 the Dow was closed for several days on a number of occassions. but this was largely because the volume of transactions overwhelmed the manual processing system. Some days the ticker announcing key stock prices was hours behind the market. It didn't make a difference closing the market to the end result which was a 90% devaluation in stock prices. The politicians are really impotent. If only they would pull their heads out of the but holes and admit debt is the problem and deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Second Time Around Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I'm a bit worried that Zanu Labour and Gordon Brown are spinning their way out of responsibility for this mess. People are actually buying the whole line that its a global problem and nothing to do with the present government of the last 12 yrs. The press are complicit in this as well and it's scaring me senseless that Labour could get in again. I think I'll leave the country because I cannot handle the stupidity of a public that cant add 2 and 2 together. The facts are.. We had billions in the bank as a country before labour took over. Our economy was growing quite well. We now have a huge deficit, unheard of, even in war time. We have not saved any money in case we have any problems. (i.e. like now!). And on top of that he has been saying that interest rates are not set by the government yet he and the USA have essentially forced the BOE to keep interest rates low after 9/11 which has caused the biggest bubble known to mankind. Now that the world is waking up to the shocking fact that money is introduced through debt, it's all making sense. GORDONS POLICY HAS BEEN TO GET EVERYONE AND ANYTHING IN TO DEBT TO GROW HIS ECONOMY AND KEEP HIM ELECTED I repeat ... GORDONS POLICY HAS BEEN TO GET EVERYONE AND ANYTHING IN TO DEBT TO GROW HIS ECONOMY AND KEEP HIM ELECTED Thats why your children will have 30k worth of debt by the time their 21. Thats why there has been no point in saving because you lose money through inflation. Better to spend and borrow and spend etc .. etc.. Thats why having a slightly dodgy credit rating can destroy your life because everything is so inflated due to this borrowing bubble that no one can afford to live a decent lifestyle without credit! Thats why businesses have been encouraged to have NO MONEY IN THE BANK and BORROW the money to pay salaries. Businesses that are cash rich have been frowned upon by markets and were liable to takeovers because "wise men" say that they money should be "invested" or given to shareholders, and the company should borrow short term money to keep going. EVERYTHING IS DESIGNED FOR YOU TO BORROW MONEY SO THAT THE BANKS MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY OFF YOU. It's why the disparity between the rich and poor has been GROWING rather than shrinking over the last 15yrs. It's why a wife with 3 kids still HAS TO WORK even though the husband has a well paid professional job that he may have studied his **** off for. There is no option anymore. It is an anglo american problem that has spread to the rest of the world rather than a worldwide problem that has spread to the Uk/US. WE CREATED THIS! Has it not escaped the attention of people here that London was/is the financial centre of the world where all these funny financial products are made? The FSA is down the road from all the financial institutions and yet could not see what was directly under its nose? Yet a bunch of people on a website (this one) seemed to know more than the government and FSA put together and we dont even get paid to know! This country is suffering from a lack of RESPONSIBLITY for its actions. From top to bottom. Thats why school kids kill each other and claim society made them do it, and governments ****** up in spectaculat fashion and yet claim that the "world" made them do it. ACCEPT SOME ******ING RESPONSIBILITY and resign! THIS WHOLE SITUATION IS BY DESIGN. GORDON IS COMPLICIT IN THIS DESIGN. He is either stupid, naive or evil. It is that simple. (Sorry for the rant, havent had any breakfast yet...) No need to apologise. I enjoyed reading it. Good post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injin Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 No need to apologise. I enjoyed reading it. Good post. Yep, top post. (Gordon's evil, btw.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrink Proof Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Bad analogy. Medical doctors tell you to stop smoking, be less fat and do more exercise. It's not their fault if they are then left with crisis management when you ignore all this. Politicians have told us to get into debt and consume, the consumption showing up as "growth" which then allows more spending from the government. It is their fault that we are now in a massive debt problem.(of course, it is really our fault since they have to appeal to us, the electorate) Actually, it's a VERY bad analogy. Yes, medics DO recommend avoiding fags & fat and exercising more and, yes, it's not their fault if they then have to crisis manage the ill patient who has ignored the advice & become ill. But usually the doctor himself is well enough to treat the patient. But in this case the patient can ignore the advice (don't get into the debt game, etc.) & become "ill" (broke). But the doctor who actually took the advice (don't get into the debt game, etc.) also gets "ill" (broke) from the patient's disease & is struck down by the (avoidable) disease too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncivil servant Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I read in the Telegraph article : Experts suspect that it may have to take a majority stake in Royal Bank of Scotland, while it will also have major holdings in HBOS, Lloyds TSB and Barclays under the plan. but no mention was made of my bank, HSBC, or of NatWest. Does anyone know if that's because those banks don't need any government assistance, or because they are beyond help? I hope it's the former, but these days, who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slurms mackenzie Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I read in the Telegraph article :Experts suspect that it may have to take a majority stake in Royal Bank of Scotland, while it will also have major holdings in HBOS, Lloyds TSB and Barclays under the plan. but no mention was made of my bank, HSBC, or of NatWest. Does anyone know if that's because those banks don't need any government assistance, or because they are beyond help? I hope it's the former, but these days, who knows? Nat west = RBS HSBC are not in this mess. Yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncivil servant Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Nat west = RBSHSBC are not in this mess. Yet Thank you. That is a relief. At least for now........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPants Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Has anyone seen the weather forecast for tomorrow? If its rain, then it'll be a bank holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poorman Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I'm a bit worried that Zanu Labour and Gordon Brown are spinning their way out of responsibility for this mess. People are actually buying the whole line that its a global problem and nothing to do with the present government of the last 12 yrs. The press are complicit in this as well and it's scaring me senseless that Labour could get in again. I think I'll leave the country because I cannot handle the stupidity of a public that cant add 2 and 2 together. The facts are.. We had billions in the bank as a country before labour took over. Our economy was growing quite well. We now have a huge deficit, unheard of, even in war time. We have not saved any money in case we have any problems. (i.e. like now!). And on top of that he has been saying that interest rates are not set by the government yet he and the USA have essentially forced the BOE to keep interest rates low after 9/11 which has caused the biggest bubble known to mankind. Now that the world is waking up to the shocking fact that money is introduced through debt, it's all making sense. GORDONS POLICY HAS BEEN TO GET EVERYONE AND ANYTHING IN TO DEBT TO GROW HIS ECONOMY AND KEEP HIM ELECTED I repeat ... GORDONS POLICY HAS BEEN TO GET EVERYONE AND ANYTHING IN TO DEBT TO GROW HIS ECONOMY AND KEEP HIM ELECTED Thats why your children will have 30k worth of debt by the time their 21. Thats why there has been no point in saving because you lose money through inflation. Better to spend and borrow and spend etc .. etc.. Thats why having a slightly dodgy credit rating can destroy your life because everything is so inflated due to this borrowing bubble that no one can afford to live a decent lifestyle without credit! Thats why businesses have been encouraged to have NO MONEY IN THE BANK and BORROW the money to pay salaries. Businesses that are cash rich have been frowned upon by markets and were liable to takeovers because "wise men" say that they money should be "invested" or given to shareholders, and the company should borrow short term money to keep going. EVERYTHING IS DESIGNED FOR YOU TO BORROW MONEY SO THAT THE BANKS MAKE EVEN MORE MONEY OFF YOU. It's why the disparity between the rich and poor has been GROWING rather than shrinking over the last 15yrs. It's why a wife with 3 kids still HAS TO WORK even though the husband has a well paid professional job that he may have studied his **** off for. There is no option anymore. It is an anglo american problem that has spread to the rest of the world rather than a worldwide problem that has spread to the Uk/US. WE CREATED THIS! Has it not escaped the attention of people here that London was/is the financial centre of the world where all these funny financial products are made? The FSA is down the road from all the financial institutions and yet could not see what was directly under its nose? Yet a bunch of people on a website (this one) seemed to know more than the government and FSA put together and we dont even get paid to know! This country is suffering from a lack of RESPONSIBLITY for its actions. From top to bottom. Thats why school kids kill each other and claim society made them do it, and governments ****** up in spectaculat fashion and yet claim that the "world" made them do it. ACCEPT SOME ******ING RESPONSIBILITY and resign! THIS WHOLE SITUATION IS BY DESIGN. GORDON IS COMPLICIT IN THIS DESIGN. He is either stupid, naive or evil. It is that simple. (Sorry for the rant, havent had any breakfast yet...) I think this beautiful phrase sums it up: Waking the people up is not as easy as it sounds. I have had arguments with friends, co-workers, etc about my views on this very topic. As well as 9-11, income tax, etc etc. The fact is a lot of people just don't "see" it. They do not believe there is a possibility that the US/UK are in big shit. They simply do not believe it and it is beyond their comprehension and vision. It is sad really. Most will not understand what is happening until it actually happens, and by then it will be way too late Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flat Bear Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 You know. I am the first one to criticise Labour when they have trolled the country which has been a lot over the past 10 years, however effing idiots who blame a local goverment for a world wide phenomena - I mean, a butterfly flaps its wings in westminster and yes there is a chance that it may cause a hurricane in North America, but lets face it, the chance is VERY VERY LOW. I guess GB was also responsible for the hanging chads too, and the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth(? that is after the BNP types have stopped blaming the Jews, or better still you could have a morph of scotland and israil to creat scotrail) I would also say that a pantomine of hysteria and fake mysery on behalf of goverment ministers might be something that would suit your small pond concerns but it would not help protect people in a global financial crash. This is a bit bigger than a competition to judge the appropriateness of the PM smiling occassionally when you would rather he looked grim and unelectable.EDIT: Although I will admit it is a little irritating to see these polititicians from all walks looking so smug when they are so genuinely pointless in all but the crisis management - they are a bit like medical doctors. The market can sort itself out from 7500 on the Dow and 3600 on the FTSE100. Moron Brown has almost single handily destroyed this country. Few will disagree, I am sure. Can anyone think of one single thing he has done that was a good thing...........? If he was put out of his our misery I would not feel animosity for the one that carried out the deed, it would be understandable. It is a bit like that clip from Sparticus. "I am the slayer of the Brown" no "I am the slayer of the Brown" no "I am the slayer of the Brown" X power 100000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 (edited) Moron Brown has almost single handily destroyed this country. Few will disagree, I am sure. Can anyone think of one single thing he He has certainly destroyed the banks. By specifying which banks would have to take up this offer he has made their shares worthless (12% interest, no dividend for 5 years). What sort of investor is going to want hold onto a share for 5 years with zero return? If they take up any of the Governments offer the share price is worthless and the Government will nationalise it by the end of the week. Way to go to take over a industry that will make £20billion profit per year for a price of what? £35-50billion? What will happen in practice is that banks will try their best to sell themselves to the sovereign wealth funds at the now vastly deflated price. Hand over the UK banking system to the Arabs at the cheapest price possible and at the expense of UK share holders. Great eh? Edited October 12, 2008 by Peter Hun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brumroccoco Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 I agree that if Gordon Brown, any senior Minister, David Cameron, the BOE or FSA say that they didn't see this coming that they are either a liar or grossly incompetent. Either way they shouldn't be in their job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redgenieuk Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 We really are up shit creek without a paddle aren't we... Yup. I thnk we are probably at the big waterfall that appears in every movie with the heros just seeing it coming. The only question is will/won't the boat go over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Converted Lurker Posted October 12, 2008 Share Posted October 12, 2008 Yup.I thnk we are probably at the big waterfall that appears in every movie with the heros just seeing it coming. The only question is will/won't the boat go over? Heroes? Not in this disaster movie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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