Britain Is Done For

[eric pebble]

Its not just jobs that are affected, but the social family unit is being destroyed. High property prices have forced both partners to work all hours, just to pay off the mortgage and this is going to have a detrimental effect on any kids caught up in this situation.

Why didn't anybody in Govt flag this up as a potential disaster. Gordon Brown has been the biggest disaster for this country and the effects will last a whole generation.

The VI Moneylenders have got Nieu Labia in completely in their hands.......... Creepy...

[Whoslaughing?]

We will all become those people in the end. What will we think then, im pretty sure its only going to get worse and worse.

Johnny Storm,

My old bones won't be here. I aim to be abroad in the next 2-3 years and I hope never to return. I earn a decent wack but nowhere near enough to survive old age in blighty. To put it quite simply there is a whole generation of us that cannot afford to live in old age (30's and 40's). Many are spending all they have to pay for mortgages etc. and just get by. All this crap about saving for retirement is bloody cloud cuckoo land.

This is one of the real costs of hous prices.

[homeless]

Plenty of possessed about....with crap

WE ARE A CULT

this was already discussed on here, if indeed we all a collective group on here actually have cult tendencies.the general consensus is that we in our own way are.

gods wrath on anyone that shows independent thought.

wish i could find that old thread.

[Badhairday]

top posting.

is it not to do with the whole consumerism too though - if something is broke, lets get a new one?

i have to admit to being the 30something that doesn't know how to do a lot of what you mention, but when something does go wrong i try to find out how to fix it. this normally invloves google, so i can forgo that i am dependent on the internet, but in general you always get the answers.

you'd also hope that as technology moves forward, there will also be less need to replace a belt on the spinner!

As time goes on, most things are getting more and more disposable. New houses are nowhere near as strong as the old ones, a house boiler used to last about 30 years but new ones barely make it past 10 years. I believe home emergency companies wont cover a boiler that is more than 10 years old and the one in my house is brand new but has been problematic since day 1. Bathrooms in new flats dont have windows anymore and due to the steam I think, tiles keep falling off in every flat I have been in. etc . Its more important than ever to be able to make minor repairs.

[Blue Peter]

Morality is not the preserve of religion. Yet religion thinks it is the preserve of morality. In the nicest way, please grow up.

I'd go even further and say that morality is merely a side effect of religion; that people think that religion is mainly about morality is one of the biggest failings of religion,

Peter.

[Orsino]

I don't know about you lot but I like living in the UK. I enjoy visiting other countries on business and on holiday and I find much to admire abroad, but I also appreciate that other countries have their own issues too. China has chronic pollution, Norway has a staggering cost of living, France has crippling beaurocracy, Spain has permenantly blighted its costas, in the US poor kids are encouraged to join the military and be sent to a war zone just so they have a chance to go to college. I'm as discontent as the next person about the way this country is being run. I never voted for this shambles of a government and this pathetic PM and I want shot of them as soon as possible. I dispair at the stupidity of the housing bubble and I'm furious that the taxpayer is bailing out the banks but do I think Britain is done for? Certainly not. The country has got too carried away and is now getting a slap in the fact to straighten it out. Those that saw it coming can brace themselves; those that didn't will feel some shock and pain - but a slap isn't fatal.

[bomberbrown]

How about breastfeeding 7 year olds?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B68bt4v4xPg

Unreal - what sort of adults are they likely to become?

Mmm....bitty.

[right_freds_dead]

But the arguement here surely is more to do with if these people are "proper" Catholics then why are they sleeping with so many partners? Surely if they are Catholic enough to not use condoms then they should be Catholic enough.

The problem as I can see it in this case is the double standards. Why are the people following the "condoms are bad" message but not the "sleeping with lots of people is bad one"

stunning plain truth answer.

Nail on the head. Can I also add to that it is going to get a great deal worse. We are lost in a myre of political correctness, politicians who sosay lead this country have had their noses in the trough for so long they cannot be bothered to look up and see what is really happening. The basic standards of a civilised society have gone and I don't see how we can get it back.

The people I feel really sorry for now are the old and vulnerable. What must they think of our once beautiful country?

we will be the old and vunerable.

if its bad NOW for the oldies, how bad will it be for us ?

how expensive is it going to be ?

how violent ?

how poor is the care going to be ?

the country will be broke by 2025

with nothing to support a peak of old people and no where to put them, no one to look after them.

do you think theres going to be a social revolution or something.?

no. were screwed.

[expatowner]

Industry in Britain was done for long long long ago.

Think about the strikes the labour unions enforced that brought us power shortages and plants only producing 3 days a week.

That was decades ago and Britain never recovered.

Thatcher dismantled the unions first then dismantled the industries - steel, mining, ship building etc etc

Go abroad to see how real countries work.

[Minos]

stunning plain truth answer.

we will be the old and vunerable.

if its bad NOW for the oldies, how bad will it be for us ?

how expensive is it going to be ?

how violent ?

how poor is the care going to be ?

the country will be broke by 2025

with nothing to support a peak of old people and no where to put them, no one to look after them.

do you think theres going to be a social revolution or something.?

no. were screwed.

You need to chuck out a few kids so they can look after you in your old age.

[Home_To_Roost]

I was hoping that it wouldn't be a catastrophe, but I have a bad feeling that this is going to be a very nasty and very painful recession. You begged and screamed for measures to keep house prices high and you got your wish. Now, we're hopelessly uncompetitive and the rest of the world is laughing at us.

You blew it. Well done, I hope you're truly pleased with yourselves.

Oh, and don't forget - you could have avoided this.

I'm sorry that this has been a rant, but I just needed to get it out. :angry:

Very true

Edited June 19, 2008 by Home_To_Roost

[blankster]

Re; religion - I'm a humanist atheist and I think my morals are just as good as those of people who get theirs from superstitious myths.

Re: Britain - I like living here too, I wouldn't really want to live anywhere else except perhaps Ireland. I agree with the earlier post and link that it is science and technology that's going to get us back on our feet again if anything can. Some people seem incredulous that the property industry could go into decline like it is now - but look what happened to our motor industry.

In the late 1950's we had these major indigenous lorry and bus makers:

AEC

Albion

Atkinson

Bristol (mainly built vehicles for state-owned bus and lorry operators)

Commer

Daimler

Dennis

ERF

Foden

Guy

Leyland

Scammell

Thornycroft

plus several others.

At that time we had these major car makers too

BMC (Austin, Austin-Healy, Morris, MG, Wolseley, Riley)

Rootes Group (Hillman, Humber, Singer, Sunbeam plus Commer Lorries)

Standard-Triumph

Jaguar (also made Daimler cars and buses)

Rover (+Land Rover)

Armstrong Siddeley

Alvis

Rolls-Royce (also made Bentleys)

In addition American companies Ford and General Motors designed and built UK market cars and trucks here (General Motors - Vauxhall and Bedford brands)

Now what's left......... Morgan!

So next time round, when the property market eventually stirs again, will the builders, estate agency chains and big property rental companies be British owned?

Edited June 19, 2008 by blankster

[Mrs Bear]

You make some excellent points here. It really quite worries me how idiotic people are these days.

I wonder at what point the teaching of useful skills stopped, education standards are awful now and are getting worse yet the Government keep telling us how exam grades are getting better. We recently advertised a new post in our office and I was involved with looking at the CV's I could not believe the shoddy standard of English/spelling and grammar of many of them - mostly from those under the age of about 25.

There seems to be some kind of attitude that "we" are special now and so no longer need to learn to know how to do such old fashioned things such as cooking, sewing and proper DIY. It is like people are brainwashed into being inept so they are compelled to be thick and be unable to do things for themselves it really is sad.

My daughters both did compulsory Home Economics for 3 years, but were still never taught the simple essentials like sewing a button on properly, or stitching up a hem invisibly. I had to teach them both of these.

Mind you I will admit to finishing weary daughter's cookery apron (exactly the same as I'd had to make at school 30 yrs earlier) - and getting a C+ for my pains.

'Neatness and accuracy are 2 skills which you must practice (sic)'.

Daughter's friend did HE GCSE, and one of her projects was knitting a basket of fruit and vegetables (this is not a wind-up) including a cauliflower in a fancy stitch. She was a mite pushed to finish it in time, so next thing was my daughter saying, 'X says could you please knit her a lemon, because her Mum can't knit.'

Edited to add: yes, I did it, because she was a lovely girl and to be fair she had knitted an A* cauliflower.

Edited June 19, 2008 by Mrs Bear

[dissident junk]

I should be shocked to hear things like this and say you are talking rubbish but I can actually see this happening.

The parents will be winging on about no one telling them what to do and how it was someone else's responsibility to teach their kids this stuff.

Like the parents recently here in Edinburgh who were winging about the lack of school meals for their kids (the Council were going to provide packed lunches instead) that was going to mean they their little darlings would not learn how to use a knife and fork properly.

How very right you are.

I know it is the Mail, but here's the story How children are still wearing nappies to school.

"The problem is partly that new mothers are offered little or no information on how to get their child out of nappies, say parents."

[right_freds_dead]

You need to chuck out a few kids so they can look after you in your old age.

that doesnt happen though for most.

the kids have their own families and you end up getting a visit every once in a while at best.

kids will mostly take with no return.

[sossij]

But that is my point - you were raised in a Catholic school and as a result you had a certain upbringing and a certain set of values instilled in you. I have a similar background, I went to a Church of England school and once I left decided that religion was maybe not for me, I could see the flaws in it. But we are both educated enough to come to that decision.

I would suggest that it was the benefit of a good education that led to me abandoning my religious beliefs. How succesful would a religion be if it sewed the seeds of doubt in itself? It wouldn't last a generation.

I am not saying though that one must have gone to a church school either in order to provide morals

You come close:

but there are many people in our society who have no serious background in anything other than themselves and that is one of the reasons why we have so many problems in society now, people no longer even respect their own familes. At least religion (of any type applied properly) provides people a certain set of beliefs and understanding about things.

Again, why is morality the preserve of religion? I'd go futher - why should people only be good because of a threat of an invisible policeman in the sky who will damn you to hell if you are immoral? Surely behaving in a moral fashion despite religion is the... ahem... more moral stance?

My problem is, is with people who just simply dismiss religion and somehow think they have a moral superiority and are more "clever" than those who still follow it.

Your problem asside, you have to go a long way to exceed the "moral superiority" of the Catholic Church (or CofE for that matter)!

In reality religion has provided the foundation of our and other societies, this foundataion is now being rapidly eroded.

In reality?

Yes, I agree that ancient societies were religious. They also believed in evil spirts in the woods and that demons possessed the sick - but that was the early foundation of civilisation... we grew out of it. Are we not allowed to move on, throw off the superstitions of our forebears? Or should we also worship the Sun (Devil/sea/mountains/spirits etc) because that was once a foundation of society too? There is no logic here. Erode away, I say

Anyway, I am clever!

Edit: some spelling.

Edited June 19, 2008 by sossij

[co2_is-not_man_made]

I would suggest that it was the benefit of a good education that led to me abandoning my religious beliefs. How succesful would a religion be if it sewed the seeds of doubt in itself? It wouldn't last a generation.

You come close:

Again, why is morality the preserve of religion? I'd go futher - why should people only be good because of a threat of an invisible policeman in the sky who will damn you to hell if you are immoral? Surely behaving in a moral fashion, despite religion, is the... ahem... more moral stance?

Your problem asside, you have to go a long way to exceed the "moral superiority" of the Catholic Church (or CofE for that matter)!

In reality?

Yes, I agree that ancient societies were religious. They also believed in evil spirts in the woods and that demons possessed the sick - but that was the early foundation of civilisation... we grew out of it. Are we not allowed to move on, throw off the superstitions of our forebears? Or should we also worship the Sun (Devil/sea/mountains/spirits etc) because that was once a foundation of society too? There is no logic here. Erode away, I say

Edit: some spelling.

On a deeper note i find it incredible that people can have no belief of anything more than here and now , whether that it expressed as god , explained by religion, is where our conciousness resides etc etc

Athiests attempt to explain it makes more logical sense for us to arrive from nowhere live a life for no reason and then just cease to exist?

In fact science has shown there are things we cannot physically see effecting us all the time. Perhaps this is why a religious belief or just a belief that there is more than we understand allows people to approach the way they live their life and conduct themselves through it with a strong moral base.?

Although most athiests i believe actually do believe this otherwise why not live each day doing exactly as we please and ignore the consequence's?

[Saving For a Space Ship]

Interesting site, the term definitely originated on here and will hopefully get into the mainstream although I don't know who is credited with coming up with the term. I love it though as it exemplifies what many sudio 'homes' are - I even started a thread on the East Anglian section!

http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/ind...showtopic=76018

I remember Googling the term a while back but could'nt find anything. Would be interesting to know when the term was first used on here - seems to be earlier this year that it started. Perhaps there should be a Wikipedia entry

The 'Slave Box' is so last year, the 'Drone Dorm' is in this year as the credit crunch has finshed off the box mortgages

I'm enjoying this excellent thread.

The talk of old Britain, before this mist of madness descended, reminded me of the David Niven scene at the beginning of the movie 'A Matter of Life and Death'. Not too diferent from the debt laden jumping from a burning plane without a parachute. Of course, there is no miracle of love to save them, as in the movie.

(following scenes)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BuN8F2w5Tl0

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rI6DM9JIvFY

Hpc'ers have been wise to most of the lies & spin from the Gov, Corps & V.I's for years.

Your average punter caught up in the recent bubble madness appears to be undergoing a time of awakening not unlike the classic 'Colonel Blimp' moment http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qScR_-vqaC8

The 'greed blinkers' are coming off.

If it's all a bit heated, a humourous aside of the Family Guy sketch of the LA housing bubble might help

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RcL6DwSufMI (50 sec in, though it's all v. funny )

Edited June 19, 2008 by Saving For a Space Ship

[Minos]

On a deeper note i find it incredible that people can have no belief of anything more than here and now , whether that it expressed as god , explained by religion, is where our conciousness resides etc etc

Athiests attempt to explain it makes more logical sense for us to arrive from nowhere live a life for no reason and then just cease to exist?

In fact science has shown there are things we cannot physically see effecting us all the time. Perhaps this is why a religious belief or just a belief that there is more than we understand allows people to approach the way they live their life and conduct themselves through it with a strong moral base.?

Although most athiests i believe actually do believe this otherwise why not live each day doing exactly as we please and ignore the consequence's?

I'm intrigued. What are these known unknowns that we know about?

[sossij]

On a deeper note i find it incredible that people can have no belief of anything more than here and now , whether that it expressed as god , explained by religion, is where our conciousness resides etc etc

Athiests attempt to explain it makes more logical sense for us to arrive from nowhere live a life for no reason and then just cease to exist?

In fact science has shown there are things we cannot physically see effecting us all the time. Perhaps this is why a religious belief or just a belief that there is more than we understand allows people to approach the way they live their life and conduct themselves through it with a strong moral base.?

Although most athiests i believe actually do believe this otherwise why not live each day doing exactly as we please and ignore the consequence's?

*Groan*

I'm not playing any more. I give up

[I want a house!]

To be honest, I think it is pretty done for as well. The last ten years of Labour, and to some extent some of the 60s generation who ended up in positions of cultural power, has broken the backbone of the country so that there's no longer a core to fall back on.

Britain is embarassing. It is dirty, expensive, has a low quality of life, and has managed to create an entire swathe of an underclass who can hardly speak, let alone read or write. We have execution-style murders on the streets adn next to no civic life left.

I drive through my area and see boarded up civic halls, cinemas, drill halls, central halls. Our pubs are closing down. I look at old photos, we used to have galas, parades, a recreation parks with boating and rides back at the turn of the century. We used to have branch lines, even the poorest lived in 2-up 2-downs, and local bands and dances and libraries.

What has happened to us?

People breed... And foreigners, like me came... Unfortunately, this is a world wide problem.

[The Generation Game]

I'm intrigued. What are these known unknowns that we know about?

Gravity

Electromagnetism

Dark energy

[co2_is-not_man_made]

I'm intrigued. What are these known unknowns that we know about?

It is well known for instance in particle science that particles change course for no apparent reason as if they have struck something (uncertainty theory). String theory only works if the existence of other dimensions is acknowledged. We know black holes exist, where do they go. If you fire a beam of light in a sealed box through 2 slits it will form a wave on photgraphic paper on the other side of the slits, remove the lid and look at it the light will form 2 vertical lines, it is forced through being observed to make a choice of which slit to go through but not when not observed.

just some examples

[dissident junk]

We all know we are wasting our talents, skills & abilities, yet we choose to ignore this & take the easier, faster option, so that we can have quality time in our few free hours each day to play with our computer games, watch TV etc........

You've inadvertently hit on something here. Lives, yes, are busier because of financial and geographical pressures (driving two miles to supermarkets instead of having the local meat van come round or popping to the bakers down the road).

But it is our lack of free time, and what we do with it when we have it that really fascinates me because I think it has severe repercussions on other aspects of society.

I will try and explain where I am coming from. I work mostly in the 'creative' industries (don't moan ) and what I have noticed is that one of the most vital things you need in this industry is what I call 'dead time'. Dead time is when you get your best ideas or realisations, or suddenly figure out a solution to a problem.

So what is dead time? Well, it is the points in your life when you are usually doing something quite brainless, on autopilot, and you feel mentally vacant. It is also usually when you are doing something physically repetitive but unchallenging. For me, I have it best when I am on a rather empty early train travelling to work, making a casserole in a quiet kitchen, stitching or ironing in an empty house, or walking somewhere. Scientists also recognise the phenomenon, and call it the 3Bs: bed, bus, bath. It was noticed that modern scientists working on projects had the great breakthroughs to problems when they were in one of those three places (and it goes back to ancient history, just look at Archimedes).

Now look at the similarities: being on your own, not being able to multi-task, being somewhere quiet, and being in a situation where your mind relaxes, free from active existence.

Now what bothers me, seriously bothers me, is that modern life in the UK rarely allows for people to experience dead time. Trains and buses are hideously congested across the country, driving has now beccome a tense and fraught activity, homes are rarely quiet with TVs on most of the time, people are torn between work and family, rushing from morning til night.

Even children. Where once a 14 year old lad would have come home from school and brought out his airfix kit (not only teaching him manual practical skills and problem solving, but also giving him dead time), now they play computer games and watch boisterous TV -- mentally fixating activities that take up most of the attention capacity. Even schools aren't the quiet, subdued places they were when I was growing up, it's all over-stimulating: too much noise, speed, colour. Anecdotally, I have noticed that children and young people seem strangely nervous and anxious these days, as though they can't relax.

And it does make me wonder whether we now have a set-up in the country that simply does not allow many adults or children the dead time they need to have ideas, to think, to realise, to solve problems. If I am correct, then this is rather a serious economic issue when it comes to enterprise, achievement, invention and productivity. People are now drones, too frantic to even think.

My hypothesis is also maybe supported by the lifestyles of the great Victorian inventors and scientists: as many were usually wealthy, they had oodles of dead time and they used it to think. Darwin (inherited wealth) sat in his study at home all day for days on end, even bathing in there. Woolf maintained a writer need a "room of ones own" where they could shut the door and have quiet silence. But even our academics these days wear a million hats and rarely have to time to sit and think.

I reckon if we want to rebuild Britain, then we ought to be looking at how to give people the capacity and time to get bored again, to have nothing to do, to give them peace and quiet. We need to slow down.

[Minos]

It is well known for instance in particle science that particles change course for no apparent reason as if they have struck something (uncertainty theory). String theory only works if the existence of other dimensions is acknowledged. We know black holes exist, where do they go. If you fire a beam of light in a sealed box through 2 slits it will form a wave on photgraphic paper on the other side of the slits, remove the lid and look at it the light will form 2 vertical lines, it is forced through being observed to make a choice of which slit to go through but not when not observed.

just some examples

Is it April 1st? What's this called so I can read up on it?

Edited June 19, 2008 by Minos